Saints Defense

[ckoz24]

So, I'll admit that I still feel very green to analyzing football, just getting into it a few years ago. I come from a hockey background, but I kinda feel that it comes with some benefits to seeing what's wrong with the defense.

To me, it's simply intensity. Last year this team got away with a few calls, but with any contact sport the refs can't call everything and it's ok to push your weight around a bit. It gets the other teams offense off their game a bit.  Hockey back in the day, you had to scrap for every inch, you really had to hook, hit and intimidate the other team.

This defense felt like it was the pushing its weight around last year. Now, its feeling like they're trying to keep up with the other teams offense.  Hell in 2009, the defensive coordinator would show them movies on how a lion would stalk it's prey.

If they can get the killer instinct back, they'll be where they were 

[Dome]

5 minutes ago, ckoz24 said:

This defense felt like it was the pushing its weight around last year. Now, its feeling like they're trying to keep up with the other teams offense.  Hell in 2009, the defensive coordinator would show them movies on how a lion would stalk it's prey.

If they can get the killer instinct back, they'll be where they were 

We're generally a really slow to start team. Our defense is showing signs of life, our front 7 was really strong today. They're tired of being the nail, today they got a taste of being the hammer.

Our secondary on the other hand? We need to make some changes. I'm positive we have the talent, it'll be a matter of scheming and execution and that I'm not sold on at all.

[Jlowe22]

The problem is, our secondary is SO bad, it may not matter if our front 7 starts playing well.  It's been the same story forever now, the Saints can't cover anybody.  The coaching staff just doesn't understand how to coach a secondary or something. Guys are wide open constantly.

[Dome]

38 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

The problem is, our secondary is SO bad, it may not matter if our front 7 starts playing well.  It's been the same story forever now, the Saints can't cover anybody.  The coaching staff just doesn't understand how to coach a secondary or something. Guys are wide open constantly.

We also have a pretty well documented history of minimizing defensive talent even if it takes a year or two here to stifle their excellence. Only been a handful of outliers over the year honestly. 

[Spartica4Real]

5 hours ago, Dome said:

We also have a pretty well documented history of minimizing defensive talent even if it takes a year or two here to stifle their excellence. Only been a handful of outliers over the year honestly. 

How many defensive players here have consistently been great and not ruined by us? Cam Jordan is pretty much it (though Lattimore has still been our only good CB this year so he may be added to the list one day). We have some guys who have been decent (Rankins for example) and if you extend all the way back to Gregg Williams the list is a little better with guys like Vilma, Greer, etc but it's still a very poor list. 

[Mid Iowa]

2 hours ago, Spartica4Real said:

How many defensive players here have consistently been great and not ruined by us? Cam Jordan is pretty much it (though Lattimore has still been our only good CB this year so he may be added to the list one day). We have some guys who have been decent (Rankins for example) and if you extend all the way back to Gregg Williams the list is a little better with guys like Vilma, Greer, etc but it's still a very poor list. 

And on the other side of the coin, how many have left our team and become really good elsewhere?

I just get pissed every time I see Akiem Hicks play. He's a beast, and he was cut... for what? Nothing, of course. Pat's would have gotten a 4th round pick out of him. But the guys is playing like a beast the last 2-3 seasons. And that's just 1 player we've ditched.

[Canadian Saint]

So I'm pretty sure our defensive issues boil down to scheme. Crawley in an article in NOLA mentioned that DA has made his scheme pretty complicated (paraphrasing) and guys have to keep at it to continue coverage. Essentially  players are having a tough time picking up the disguises and coverages. If you remember last year, Kenny V said the same thing and told DA to tone it down. Since we've had this song and dance before, I assume we're going to simplify the playbook sooner rather than later.

[Dome]

6 hours ago, Canadian Saint said:

So I'm pretty sure our defensive issues boil down to scheme. Crawley in an article in NOLA mentioned that DA has made his scheme pretty complicated (paraphrasing) and guys have to keep at it to continue coverage. Essentially  players are having a tough time picking up the disguises and coverages. If you remember last year, Kenny V said the same thing and told DA to tone it down. Since we've had this song and dance before, I assume we're going to simplify the playbook sooner rather than later.

Guys said the same thing about Rex Ryan’s failing schemes after his huge first year.... turns out it was “allegedly” Sean Payton getting his hands on the scheme and putting his spins on it that caused the collapss. 

People were concerned when we hired DA that it was just a Payton cronie he’d be able to push around and keep pushing his schemes on the defense 

 

hmmmmmmmm

[Canadian Saint]

7 hours ago, Dome said:

Guys said the same thing about Rex Ryan’s failing schemes after his huge first year.... turns out it was “allegedly” Sean Payton getting his hands on the scheme and putting his spins on it that caused the collapss. 

People were concerned when we hired DA that it was just a Payton cronie he’d be able to push around and keep pushing his schemes on the defense 

 

hmmmmmmmm

Trust me I've had the Deja Vu feeling, but I'm more optimistic. We've really had a lot more good indicators in these past 3 games than in that season under Ryan.

Currently after 3 games our run D has been stupendous, we're allowing the least yards/carry currently in the entire league. The D-line last game actually got pressure and pretty consistently. Where we struggled and gave them time is when we rushed only 3.

Where we struggled mostly is communication. Mostly within the secondary, but a minor issue in the LB corps. In our zone concepts, the passing off between CB and S. There were times when either Williams or Crawley jumped the route with no one to cover or Crawley would pass a man off and no one picked him up. Funny thing is Lattimore is back to being Lattimore. Kept Jones to 2 catches for 20 something yards. After Ridley went off, went to cover Ridley and blanketed him. Our problem seems to the guy opposite Latt.

Lbers are overall doing decent, their biggest issue is dropping in coverage, sometimes they'll blow assignments but I think that's something that improves with these guys playing together more.

While it seems stupid for me to say, especially after we allowed 40+ points in 2/3 games, I'm telling you if we iron out some kinks we have a top 10 D here. Atleast top 15. I think we'll improve as the season goes on.

[SWATcha]

On 9/24/2018 at 8:43 PM, Canadian Saint said:

Trust me I've had the Deja Vu feeling, but I'm more optimistic. We've really had a lot more good indicators in these past 3 games than in that season under Ryan.

Currently after 3 games our run D has been stupendous, we're allowing the least yards/carry currently in the entire league. The D-line last game actually got pressure and pretty consistently. Where we struggled and gave them time is when we rushed only 3.

Where we struggled mostly is communication. Mostly within the secondary, but a minor issue in the LB corps. In our zone concepts, the passing off between CB and S. There were times when either Williams or Crawley jumped the route with no one to cover or Crawley would pass a man off and no one picked him up. Funny thing is Lattimore is back to being Lattimore. Kept Jones to 2 catches for 20 something yards. After Ridley went off, went to cover Ridley and blanketed him. Our problem seems to the guy opposite Latt.

Lbers are overall doing decent, their biggest issue is dropping in coverage, sometimes they'll blow assignments but I think that's something that improves with these guys playing together more.

While it seems stupid for me to say, especially after we allowed 40+ points in 2/3 games, I'm telling you if we iron out some kinks we have a top 10 D here. Atleast top 15. I think we'll improve as the season goes on.

Taken with a grain of salt the size of Texas......

No need for teams to run when they can pass for 400+ yards a game with relative ease. 

[Dome]

13 hours ago, SWATcha said:

Taken with a grain of salt the size of Texas......

No need for teams to run when they can pass for 400+ yards a game with relative ease. 

We’re leading in YPC as well as top 10 YPG. So it does mean something. 

Teams have to pass to keep up with our offense, but when they take the opportunity to run, they aren’t doing it well. 

[SWATcha]

14 minutes ago, Dome said:

We’re leading in YPC as well as YPG. So it does mean something. 

Teams have to pass to keep up with our offense, but when they take the opportunity to run, they aren’t doing it well. 

Not true amigo. Saints have only taken 11 snaps on offense while having a lead. Only team less than the Saints? The Bills.....

If anything, the Saints #s are probably inflated by having to play catch up all the time.

[Dome]

1 hour ago, SWATcha said:

Not true amigo. Saints have only taken 11 snaps on offense while having a lead. Only team less than the Saints? The Bills.....

If anything, the Saints #s are probably inflated by having to play catch up all the time.

Fair, but I feel like teams still aren’t really happy with a 1 score lead on the Saints. They know Brees is gonna get his. They’re still gonna play aggressive, they always have.

Anyways, my point stands, YPC is more important than YPG and says more about our run defense than you’re letting on. Even if we are easy to pass against, teams aren’t having success running when they do try running it.

[Dome]

13 hours ago, SWATcha said:

Taken with a grain of salt the size of Texas......

No need for teams to run when they can pass for 400+ yards a game with relative ease. 

 

9 hours ago, SWATcha said:

Not true amigo. Saints have only taken 11 snaps on offense while having a lead. Only team less than the Saints? The Bills.....

If anything, the Saints #s are probably inflated by having to play catch up all the time.

So I just looked, only 8 teams have been rushed against more than we have. Yet we’re still only giving up 3 yards per attempt, for best in the league.

So the argument that teams are only thowing against us is no good.