Would you trade Ben Roethlisberger to Jacksonville?

[muncher]

20 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

We don't have the talent on defense.... You're kidding yourself if you think we do. 

so all the blown assignments, miscommunication, missed tackles and playing 2 defenses on the same play is because of lack of talent?

those alone  can be attributed to our loss and tie

 

[BlaqOptic]

I would if only to do well by Ben so his legacy becomes what it actually should be. If Ben were on that Jaguars team they likley win the next 2 or 3 Super Bowls. Ben has a 4 or 5x Super Bowl Champion, 6x Appearer between 2 different franchises, one legendary and one a pissant would cement him as a Top 10 QB all time.

[43M]

8 hours ago, muncher said:

so all the blown assignments, miscommunication, missed tackles and playing 2 defenses on the same play is because of lack of talent?

those alone  can be attributed to our loss and tie

 

Your comment was "We have more than enough talent to win".   

I said, "We dont have the talent on defense", which we dont.

I never said coaching isnt an issue at all....there are obviously numerous areas where coaching has failed us.   Im saying that, regardless of coaching, we dont have the talent on defense to be a serious contender.   You can only do so much with inferior talent like we have on defense.

[muncher]

13 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Your comment was "We have more than enough talent to win".   

I said, "We dont have the talent on defense", which we dont.

I never said coaching isnt an issue at all....there are obviously numerous areas where coaching has failed us.   Im saying that, regardless of coaching, we dont have the talent on defense to be a serious contender.   You can only do so much with inferior talent like we have on defense.

somebody should be held accountable for drafting those defensive players then..........

[3rivers]

7 hours ago, muncher said:

somebody should be held accountable for drafting those defensive players then..........

Many of us have been yelling at colbert for years, he apparently doesn't listen .  What I have a problem with is how much patience these coaches have with higher draft picks. If burns and dupree were RD4 picks etc, they wouldn't have the same opportunity based on their play.  The draft pick letdowns on D have left the secondary in the shambles it's it, and UFA could have helped as well as a trade.  

Or we need 35 points a game on offence and terrible games to watch.  Thats where we are at . Yeah , we scored -> Now it's the other teams  turn to score . 

[43M]

7 hours ago, muncher said:

somebody should be held accountable for drafting those defensive players then..........

I agree....thats not just Tomlin, though.   

Tomlin and Colbert make up the big board together, and based on RUMORS Ive heard, Colbert actually has the final say....although I dont know for sure.    

However, it goes beyond Tomlin and Colbert....our scouts arent doing a good enough job either.   Im sure position coaches and coordinators are in the mix as well.   Its hard to pinpoint the problem....but Tomlin and Colbert are the ones responsible for building the team, and they arent doing a good enough job replenishing talent.   

[3rivers]

10 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

I agree....thats not just Tomlin, though.   

Tomlin and Colbert make up the big board together, and based on RUMORS Ive heard, Colbert actually has the final say....although I dont know for sure.    

However, it goes beyond Tomlin and Colbert....our scouts arent doing a good enough job either.   Im sure position coaches and coordinators are in the mix as well.   Its hard to pinpoint the problem....but Tomlin and Colbert are the ones responsible for building the team, and they arent doing a good enough job replenishing talent.   

The if the rumour  is true , we should be putting colbert on the hotseat, tomlin can just watch and learn  I can't believe they would let colbert have the final word, but it this rumour must be fact because I can't believe tomlin would have drafted some these players where they did in the D side. We have had some good picks, but for some reason the D has had too many bad picks and most of us have had enough of that.

[43M]

9 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

The if the rumour  is true , we should be putting colbert on the hotseat, tomlin can just watch and learn  I can't believe they would let colbert have the final word, but it this rumour must be fact because I can't believe tomlin would have drafted some these players where they did in the D side. We have had some good picks, but for some reason the D has had too many bad picks and most of us have had enough of that.

Both should be on the hotseat.

Even if Colbert was making every pick, Tomlin has his own shortcomings as a coach.

Feels like it may just be time for an all around change.    If we dont retain Tomlin after 2020, I can pretty much guarantee he wont be out of work long.   He will either get another head coaching job or he will follow in Cowher's footsteps.

[jebrick]

First let me say that I think that Art2 needs to stop meddling with the team and Tomlin and especially Butler need to start showing better coaching. I think the scouts need to be shaken up. The scouts are failing to identify players for the coaches/GMs to evaluate. Drafting Frazier when they could have taken a shot on Shaq Griffin is just the most recent one.

That being said...Did you know that the Browns playoff drought is less than the time from the last Steelers pick in the top 10? Last Browns playoff game 2002. Last time the Steelers picked in the top 10, 2000. No other team has as long without a top 10 pick. NE? 2008. Ravens? 2016. GB? 2009.

Point is they are either drafting better or are coached better than almost all other teams. The NFL is cyclical, except the Steelers have kept their valleys short and their peaks are plateaus.

[43M]

3 hours ago, jebrick said:

That being said...Did you know that the Browns playoff drought is less than the time from the last Steelers pick in the top 10? Last Browns playoff game 2002. Last time the Steelers picked in the top 10, 2000. No other team has as long without a top 10 pick. NE? 2008. Ravens? 2016. GB? 2009.

Dude....the 2007 Patriots went 18-1 and only lost in the SB.

New England had a top 10 pick that year because they had the 49ers pick.   

Change 2008 to 2001 and your statement is still true.   Thats the last time the Patriots had a TRUE top 10 pick.

 

Quote

Point is they are either drafting better or are coached better than almost all other teams. The NFL is cyclical, except the Steelers have kept their valleys short and their peaks are plateaus.

Okay....but that doesnt mean its going to keep happening.   

The one constant over the last 15 years has been Ben.     He is a big reason for that stable success...and he is in the twilight of his career.

The offense still has plenty of talent....thats not the problem.  I mean, it HAS problems, but its not THE problem.

The defense has been in steady decline since 2011, and we have failed at replacing several key pieces even remotely adequately.   We have zero true playmakers on defense with Shazier gone.    Heyward is the best player on our defense, and I dont like how he is being used this year.    Our LBs would be backups on most teams.      Our secondary would be backups on most teams, and if not for the fact that Burns was an athletic former first rounder, he wouldnt be on a team at all...he is garbage.

Tomlin doesnt learn from past mistakes....Butler's defense are just woefully undisciplined and ill prepared ON TOP OF being marginally talented....Fitchner seems like another extremely flawed playcaller.....Joey Porter has done nothing noteworthy with our LBs, despite being handed numerous high picks.....

Bottom line....the Steelers have been extremely stable over the last 25 years or so...but the fear is, that might be finally coming to an end.   Maybe not this year or next year.....but very soon if something doesnt change, especially in regards to bringing in talent.

[muncher]

whether its talent or coaching or both, i think its time for tomlin to go.

tomlin has had plenty of time to build 'his team' and 'his team isnt getting it done  come playoff time.

but who am i? most fans are happy with never being below 500. most are happy with being competitive every season. most like to say we only had 3 coaches in X years and most fans are afraid of change.

ill take my chances of a new HC that i can get excited about compared to keeping the known product that excels in the regular season but fails in the post season.

[3rivers]

10 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Both should be on the hotseat.

Even if Colbert was making every pick, Tomlin has his own shortcomings as a coach.

Feels like it may just be time for an all around change.    If we dont retain Tomlin after 2020, I can pretty much guarantee he wont be out of work long.   He will either get another head coaching job or he will follow in Cowher's footsteps.

As much as I have disliked Tomlin's coaching at times, if he doesn't actually have a say in the players they bring in and who they draft , then this could be like a cowher vs donahoe all over again.  This team is lopsided in favour of the offence and everybody knows it and that would be the colbert's fault . Tomlin doesn't have the talent on And will never be able to afford it. The D depended on RD1 picks to save the day and colbert failed there again 3x on the current roster.  

If we are relatively healthy and miss the playoffs, I would be all for firing colbert and possibly allow tomlin the final say on the players drafted and UFA signed. Let the GM be the bean counter and figure out the capology, gatorade supply  and those details.

What GM's that are possibly out there would you consider? Would Rod Woodson be interested?

[jebrick]

Colbert is not the problem.  That the team has been so good for so long through two coaches can tell you that.  Update the scouts but Colbert is just fine.  I think they need new ideas.  May not work but they will run out of time soon.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, jebrick said:

Colbert is not the problem.  That the team has been so good for so long through two coaches can tell you that.  Update the scouts but Colbert is just fine.  I think they need new ideas.  May not work but they will run out of time soon.

He's still the one that pulls the trigger which indicates he's part of the problem at worst.

[3rivers]

8 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Colbert is not the problem.  That the team has been so good for so long through two coaches can tell you that.  Update the scouts but Colbert is just fine.  I think they need new ideas.  May not work but they will run out of time soon.

just for example:

Colbert is the one making the FINAL decisions, but  for the draft it could be on the scouts more than colbert. They might have a board, and they could have had burns and dupree at the top while other would have a board different.  In this case, Colbert might just take the best player of the board which is based on the scouts.

Tomlin might not have as much say in all this. He could go yell at colbert and say artie and bud aren't getting better and we colbert can say "he's going to break out this year, he's getting the 5th year option". 

We don't know how the organization works, but we know tomlin needs better DC and talent on D. This D isn't one that can bring the SB home and the offence has yet to prove after all these years that they can win high scoring games vs good teams.