SLCbear Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Talent-wise this D measurea up to '85 Mack>Dent Hicks=Hampton Goldman=Fridge Lynch=McMichael Trevathan=Marshall Floyd=Wilson Roquan(rookie) <Singletary Fuller>Richardson Prince>Frazier Jackson=Fencik Amos=Duerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Vic=<Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 21 minutes ago, SLCbear said: Talent-wise this D measurea up to '85 No, we really don't IMO. The only arguement is that if the players reach their highest potential they MIGHT be able to be compared, but that is a poor way to look at it. We have the full books on their careers, and the players may succeed or really fail hard for us. Mack>Dent IDK. Dent was an all-time great and Mack should be. DTs rarely destroy the pass game like Dent did, a ton of DEs/OLBs will get sacks in bulk. I'd put this as an 'equal to' Hicks=Hampton Hampton might have the edge but both are so damn good it is hard to say. Hampton's continual dominance just makes it hard to not give it to him. Goldman=Fridge This I can agree with. Fridge gets too much love compared to McMichael but was still a damn good passrusher for a DT. Goldman is just so damn stout vs the run though. Really depends on the role desired to pick between them. 3T goes to Perry, 2gap NT to Goldman. Lynch=McMichael That is fu**ing blasphemous Trevathan=Marshall DT hasn't even made 80 tackles but once in his career. Marshall is another HOF nominee. DT is good but has no claim to that so far. Floyd=Wilson Floyd might not even warrant a 2nd contract, not sure how that matches up to Wilson who was a solid passrusher Roquan(rookie) <Singletary Fuller>Richardson Richardson didn't play long but was an impact player for most of his years. If Fuller gets the edge then it is damn close. Prince>Frazier Not even remotely close. If not for his injury he was a guy looking to match up with Tillman in Bears history. He was constantly around the ball, having 20 INTs in a 4 year stretch. Jackson=Fencik Not even close - I hope Jackson someday is as impactful as Fencik, but he dominated in the in and pass. In total tackles he may have Urlacher beat if they recorded properly. Amos=Duerson Amos is better than a 4 time Pro Bowler and All Pro who got a high amount of INTs AND was able to rush the passer? No. Hicks literally named Amos "spatula hands" to make fun of how he can't catch. You took a dump on McMichael. He was nowhere down near Lynch's level. He was literally a HOF snub, Lynch was a guy who was a healthy scratch guy last year. Steve is 3rd in Bears history for tackles and 2nd in sacks - all time. Lynch can't compare with a single guy on the 85 Bears. Throw in Rivera and a host of others, he might just barely make the team due to his physical gifts. 55 minutes ago, SLCbear said: Vic=<Buddy Buddy is renowned as an all-time great. Fangio is one of the tops in the NFL but just isn't going to match up unless he can have this level of sustained success. What Buddy did in his scheming as a DL coach, DC, and HC just is way more than Vic can match up to. Vic cost us several games due to his lack of versatility and adaptability. Buddy won games for the Bears because of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: I heard on hoge and jahns that their grades are out immediatly after games end and sent to media who report it as gospel. That is simply impossible. I dont know what method they are using, but its garbage or they are lying. Grading a play of a player with any ingegrity takes at the minimum watching that play in all 22 at least twice preferably in slo mo. That is with eyes just on that player. You have to do it again for each guy, each play. It is only truly accurate when coach does it knowing the play call and all the responsibilities and whatever issues player was dealing with injury wise. Took me 4-5 hours to review film in depth of my little league teams with shorter quarters. I shortend it to two hours over time because it was too much. If they had 22 guys for each team and game watching one guy then rewinding and working in real time through commercials maybe. No way they are doing that and employing that many people. Even if they were broadcast view doesnt show you everything or give you proper viewing angles. Even an expert in the know cant tell scheme most of time from broadcast view. I dont know if they are using some algo program or what, but their initial rankings are garbage if they are coming out that fast. They are a fun talking point and may give an idea of how players are doing without any real watching of them from the casual fans, but that is it. They had Lesean McCoy rated really low after his 2016 season. Had like 1600 total yards, over 5 YPC, and 14 TDs. They said it was his blocking. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 3 hours ago, Sugashane said: You took a dump on McMichael. He was nowhere down near Lynch's level. He was literally a HOF snub, Lynch was a guy who was a healthy scratch guy last year. Steve is 3rd in Bears history for tackles and 2nd in sacks - all time. Lynch can't compare with a single guy on the 85 Bears. Throw in Rivera and a host of others, he might just barely make the team due to his physical gifts. Buddy is renowned as an all-time great. Fangio is one of the tops in the NFL but just isn't going to match up unless he can have this level of sustained success. What Buddy did in his scheming as a DL coach, DC, and HC just is way more than Vic can match up to. Vic cost us several games due to his lack of versatility and adaptability. Buddy won games for the Bears because of his. Hard to compare eras because of overall size differentials, but I agree with Sugar on 99% of what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 4 hours ago, SLCbear said: Talent-wise this D measurea up to '85 Mack>Dent Hicks=Hampton Goldman=Fridge Lynch=McMichael Trevathan=Marshall Floyd=Wilson Roquan(rookie) <Singletary Fuller>Richardson Prince>Frazier Jackson=Fencik Amos=Duerson Mack > Dent = I would agree with that, but Dent is still HOFer. Hicks > Hampton = No. Literally maybe, because he might be a tad small for today's NFL and that goes for everybody, but when Hampton was healthy he was one of best DL ever. Ever. For his era at his best Hampton was significantly better. For younger guys he played like Aaron Donald when healthy, unfortunately he dealt with injured knees most of his career. A HOFer. Hicks is very good, but barely a pro bowler. Fridge = Talking '85 Fridge was an absolute stud. He dominated games. He is not thought of much because he had depression and addiction issues that turned him into a bad player past his rookie year exasperated by death of a close relative. Goldman has never dominated the way Fridge did in '85 and never will. Few ever have. Fridge lived on the other side of LOS in '85. Completely disrupted the offense. Lynch = McMichael. Different positions, but not even going to argue this. McMichael is tons better. Not sure where that came from. Lynch is a journeyman player. McMichael was a stud. Trevathan = Marshall. No. Trevathan is a good LB and also a hard hitter one of hardest in NFL before he got beat up for Adams hit. Marshall was on a another level. He was a murderer. He destroyed his brain from so many hard hits. He dominated for Bears and went to Redskins as a big FA and dominated there leading their defense to a superbowl win with several dominating performances. Maybe last great Redskins FA signing. In '85 Marshall was at his peak. Not sure if Marshall is in HOF, but he should be. One of most underrated players in NFL history and one of best LBers in league for many of his years. Floyd = Wilson. No. Wilson was much better. Wilson was a stud. Floyd is just a guy so far. Can't believe you would say that. Roquan = Singletary. No. Maybe someday. Singletary is HOFer. Overrated athletically, and to be honest most over rated player on this stacked defense. But you can't discount the impact he had in leadership and inspiration and he was a very good player who did his job on the field. Nobody broke his tackles and he was always in right place in zone. He just wasn't **** Butkus or Ray Lewis. Jury is out on Roquan who is just barely getting started. Kid has tons of talent. Crazy to say he is better or equal to Singletary in '85 now. Fuller>Richardson = No because Fuller can't catch. Prince>Frazier = Closer, but Frazier was better at his best. Jackson = Fencik = I'll give that. Jackson probably is even better, but Fencik was good. Amos = Duerson = No because Amos can't catch and Duerson could. Bottom line is you can't compare arguable greatest single season defense in history to a pretty good current defense. You could put a 70s Steelers D in there or Ravens SB team that was also loaded, but not 2018 Bears. That is just crazy talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 I'm impressed by the front 7. Floyd may not live up to his potential as a pass rusher but he can generate some pressure while also providing a lot of versatility in coverage and run support. My main concern is at CB - hoping Fuller starts to play better as the season progresses because the defense is thin on the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 2 hours ago, abstract_thought said: I'm impressed by the front 7. Floyd may not live up to his potential as a pass rusher but he can generate some pressure while also providing a lot of versatility in coverage and run support. My main concern is at CB - hoping Fuller starts to play better as the season progresses because the defense is thin on the outside. Floyd's passrush opportunities really took a hit once Mack got here. Fangio rushes 4 almost exclusively compared to most DCs (all DCs? lol) so unless it is a long down where both have their hand down, we won't see them both rush together a ton. So he still needs to produce, but we REALLY need to recognize the lack of reps he will be doing so compared to other starting OLBs in a 3-4. Realistically if he tops 6 then he probably was pretty good in his role. And really, if we have to choose between one of them rushing we are always going to have Mack attack the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 48 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Floyd's passrush opportunities really took a hit once Mack got here. Fangio rushes 4 almost exclusively compared to most DCs (all DCs? lol) so unless it is a long down where both have their hand down, we won't see them both rush together a ton. So he still needs to produce, but we REALLY need to recognize the lack of reps he will be doing so compared to other starting OLBs in a 3-4. Realistically if he tops 6 then he probably was pretty good in his role. And really, if we have to choose between one of them rushing we are always going to have Mack attack the QB. Exactly right and given how effective Floyd has been in coverage, it's a worthwhile trade-off. I know people see the length and combine numbers and immediately think he should rush the passer, but he's always played as more of an off-ball LB and his coverage skills are very good. Turns out speed, quickness, and length are very valuable in coverage too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskieBear Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 8 hours ago, SLCbear said: Talent-wise this D measurea up to '85 Mack>Dent Hicks=Hampton Goldman=Fridge Lynch=McMichael Trevathan=Marshall Floyd=Wilson Roquan(rookie) <Singletary Fuller>Richardson Prince>Frazier Jackson=Fencik Amos=Duerson bahahahahahaha GTFOH this defense is NOWHERE near talent wise as the '85 D. they were one of, if not, THE top defense ever, with MULTIPLE HOFers and a ton of finalists on it. keep drinking that kool aid though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I stand by my post .. lets talk defense, 80s football is far less sophisticated .. Leonard Floyd Danny Trevathan and the great Vic Fangio are grossly underrated here imho I meant for there to be an <in favor of McMichael instead of an = with Lynch .. Roquan will be special .. Frasier and Richardson, Fencik too, would struggle hard in in todays NFL .. Hampton is a STUD but would be far less today Mack is moving into LTsphere could surpass only mid 20s.. Fridge was AWESOME, sick feet would love to have him today ha RoqRoquan is key .. as was the great Singletary .. Floyd is a STuD playinf with a stump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 16 hours ago, Sugashane said: Floyd's passrush opportunities really took a hit once Mack got here. Fangio rushes 4 almost exclusively compared to most DCs (all DCs? lol) so unless it is a long down where both have their hand down, we won't see them both rush together a ton. So he still needs to produce, but we REALLY need to recognize the lack of reps he will be doing so compared to other starting OLBs in a 3-4. Realistically if he tops 6 then he probably was pretty good in his role. And really, if we have to choose between one of them rushing we are always going to have Mack attack the QB. That could be a big bonus long term. I was against the Floyd pick because he was a mediocre pass rusher (too weak in upper body) and Bears desperately needed pass rusher, but one of his strengths was his length and speed in coverage. When his hand heals and he gets more reps in coverage he will cause problems having to throw around and over those long arms and quick strides. Really tightens a window in mid range passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 2 hours ago, dll2000 said: That could be a big bonus long term. I was against the Floyd pick because he was a mediocre pass rusher (too weak in upper body) and Bears desperately needed pass rusher, but one of his strengths was his length and speed in coverage. When his hand heals and he gets more reps in coverage he will cause problems having to throw around and over those long arms and quick strides. Really tightens a window in mid range passing game. It's kind of funny because when he was recruited it was to be a passrusher but so many ILBs were injured/sucked and there was depth at EDGE, so they moved him over to MLB. THAT was the reason he grew as a coverage backer, it was never intended to be, just happened due to circumstance. Then Smith took on his role in his sophomore year after Floyd came to Chicago, and became a crazy talented player. Now we have both. lol Georgia's reply to Floyd being more well rounded rather than a set passrusher: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted September 30, 2018 Author Share Posted September 30, 2018 Khalil Mack 5 sacks, 4 FF, 1 INT Raiders enitre defense (including current game as I post this) 5 sacks(2 today), 3 FF(2 today), 2 INT (1 today) You think they miss him...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 16 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said: Khalil Mack 5 sacks, 4 FF, 1 INT Raiders enitre defense (including current game as I post this) 5 sacks(2 today), 3 FF(2 today), 2 INT (1 today) You think they miss him...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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