turtle28 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 6 hours ago, MikeT14 said: That's kind of a weird list because you left a lot out, and also listed a guy not drafted by the Redskins. Like was this list specificly done for a reason, or did you just list 4 QBs drafted by the Redskins? It was in response to Naptown’s post where he said, “Just once, can we add a pro-style from the draft? Asking for a friend.” So, I listed the pro-style QBs we’ve drafted since 1994. I guess we didn’t draft Trent Green, but we signed him as a free agent off of the BC Lions in the CFL. I thought we had drafted him, so that’s my bad. Is that what you meant by one of them we didn’t draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 hours ago, MikeT14 said: I'm surprised you don't like Finley. Dude is about as close to Alex Smith as there is in this draft - without the running ability. Yeah, that’s not true at all. Alex Smith was a dual threat monster in college! There’s a reason why Alex Smith went #1 overall and why Finley will likley be a day 3 pick. Alex isn’t a dynamic top tier QB in the NFL, but he’s a good QB. Just because you’re still hurt we traded for him doesn’t mean he sucks either! He’s somewhere in the middle. He’s good, but not great. Finley will likely be a career back up, Smith has started almost every game of the last 12 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 43 minutes ago, turtle28 said: It was in response to Naptown’s post where he said, “Just once, can we add a pro-style from the draft? Asking for a friend.” So, I listed the pro-style QBs we’ve drafted since 1994. I guess we didn’t draft Trent Green, but we signed him as a free agent off of the BC Lions in the CFL. I thought we had drafted him, so that’s my bad. Is that what you meant by one of them we didn’t draft? I thought that's what you meant, but I wasn't completely putting it together (because I think a couple were left out), but also your question's answer is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 36 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Yeah, that’s not true at all. Alex Smith was a dual threat monster in college! There’s a reason why Alex Smith went #1 overall and why Finley will likley be a day 3 pick. Alex isn’t a dynamic top tier QB in the NFL, but he’s a good QB. Just because you’re still hurt we traded for him doesn’t mean he sucks either! He’s somewhere in the middle. He’s good, but not great. Finley will likely be a career back up, Smith has started almost every game of the last 12 years. Their styles are similar. Go watch again. I already acknowledged Finley isn't a dual threat. Average arm strength (something you're still hurt about I think), not overly turnover prone, high accuracy (65% at State), WCO, touch on passes without strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 8 hours ago, MikeT14 said: Their styles are similar. Go watch again. I already acknowledged Finley isn't a dual threat. Average arm strength (something you're still hurt about I think), not overly turnover prone, high accuracy (65% at State), WCO, touch on passes without strength If Alex had ”average arm strength” he wouldn't have been the #1 overall pick, come on dude! I'll grant you Alex doesn't have elite arm strength but average arm strength? That's a NO, he's not Colt McCoy. And if Finley is destined to be a career back up, then he clearly isn't the player that Alex is and he wasn't in college either. Finley is a lesser/average armed Kirk Cousins, not Alex Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 8 hours ago, turtle28 said: If Alex had ”average arm strength” he wouldn't have been the #1 overall pick, come on dude! I'll grant you Alex doesn't have elite arm strength but average arm strength? That's a NO, he's not Colt McCoy. And if Finley is destined to be a career back up, then he clearly isn't the player that Alex is and he wasn't in college either. Finley is a lesser/average armed Kirk Cousins, not Alex Smith. I never said Ryan Finley was going to be Alex Smith - never measured their careers that way. I said his game is most similar to that of Smith's of the QBs in the draft imo. You can compare players styles without them having the same career trajectory. I know you get ragged on this a lot, but, seriously, your goal post moving to put your square peg in a round hole solution is pretty frustrating sometimes. We'll just agree to disagree on Alex's "arm" - if you compare him to the other 31 starters in the league, we know where he stands. If you want to hang on his one hit wonder of 2017 still, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 hours ago, MikeT14 said: I never said Ryan Finley was going to be Alex Smith - never measured their careers that way. I said his game is most similar to that of Smith's of the QBs in the draft imo. You can compare players styles without them having the same career trajectory. I know you get ragged on this a lot, but, seriously, your goal post moving to put your square peg in a round hole solution is pretty frustrating sometimes. We'll just agree to disagree on Alex's "arm" - if you compare him to the other 31 starters in the league, we know where he stands. If you want to hang on his one hit wonder of 2017 still, so be it. Do we actually know where Alex stands compared to the other 31 starters in the league in term of arm strength? I'd love to see that analysis done by an actual football person, because I haven't seen it. Right now you're talking about your ”opinion” of Alex Smith’s arm and I’m sorry, opinion is not fact, it just doesn't carry as much weight. And I’m not are how I'm moving the goal post when I'm just responding to the points that you've been making. You're the one who brought up Finley being the closest thing to Alex Smith in this draft - I disagree. You're the one who brought up a fallacy that Alex Smith has only ”average” arm strength - I disagree - until I see some hard analysis that proves me wrong, and not just some people’s opinion, who've never liked Alex or the trade to get him in the first place. Lastly, I’m not holding onto Alex Smith but will defend the fact that he's a good starting QB, but I've certainly never said he's elite or close to it. I was one of the first to say that after Alex broke his leg that his career was over and the team should go with Colt as their starter in 2019 and draft a QB in the 2019 draft at some point. It doesn't have to be round 1 or 2, but if a QB who's the BPA and they love is available for them there, they should take them because in the end the QB position tops all. That being said, they shouldn't be reaching for a QB in round 1 or 2. If they don't have one worthy of the pick available then they should take another position and take a QB in rounds 3 or later to develop as a future back up and if we're lucky, one day a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 48 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Do we actually know where Alex stands compared to the other 31 starters in the league in term of arm strength? I'd love to see that analysis done by an actual football person, because I haven't seen it. Right now you're talking about your ”opinion” of Alex Smith’s arm and I’m sorry, opinion is not fact, it just doesn't carry as much weight. Holy **** let me buy you a mirror. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 50 minutes ago, turtle28 said: And I’m not are how I'm moving the goal post when I'm just responding to the points that you've been making. You're the one who brought up Finley being the closest thing to Alex Smith in this draft - I disagree. Did you not completely transgress into thinking I said Finley WOULD BE Alex Smith? Yes. Would you like me to change it to "above average not good"? Sure. You can have that. Quote You're the one who brought up a fallacy that Alex Smith has only ”average” arm strength - I disagree - until I see some hard analysis that proves me wrong, and not just some people’s opinion, who've never liked Alex or the trade to get him in the first place. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=alex+smith+arm+strength+analysis Quote Lastly, I’m not holding onto Alex Smith but will defend the fact that he's a good starting QB, but I've certainly never said he's elite or close to it. I was one of the first to say that after Alex broke his leg that his career was over and the team should go with Colt as their starter in 2019 and draft a QB in the 2019 draft at some point. It doesn't have to be round 1 or 2, but if a QB who's the BPA and they love is available for them there, they should take them because in the end the QB position tops all. That being said, they shouldn't be reaching for a QB in round 1 or 2. If they don't have one worthy of the pick available then they should take another position and take a QB in rounds 3 or later to develop as a future back up and if we're lucky, one day a starter. We can still disagree where Finley can go, that's fine. I certainly wouldn't take him in Round 1 either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I've got an opinion and an eye test. I watch Finley play this year. A decent amount actually - it helps to live in North Carolina. I saw a lot of Alex Smith. dealwithit.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, MikeT14 said: I've got an opinion and an eye test. I watch Finley play this year. A decent amount actually - it helps to live in North Carolina. I saw a lot of Alex Smith. dealwithit.gif Are you comparing what Finley is going against crappy ACC defenses vs what Alex is going against NFL defenses? That’s not a good comparison. Compare their college film & it’s not even close to the same. The link you posted about arm strength didn’t work. I’ll go back to combine stuff and try to find it, but I still stand by the fact that Alex can make every throw and scouts wouldn’t have him ranked as the #1 QB in the 2005 NFL draft - over Aaron Rodgers - if he only had an average arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Are you comparing what Finley is going against crappy ACC defenses vs what Alex is going against NFL defenses? How else would you do it? Madden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, turtle28 said: The link you posted about arm strength didn’t work. I’ll go back to combine stuff and try to find it, but I still stand by the fact that Alex can make every throw and scouts wouldn’t have him ranked as the #1 QB in the 2005 NFL draft - over Aaron Rodgers - if he only had an average arm. Try again on a PC or just take the L on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2018/06/nfl-quarterbacks-rankings-weaknesses-tom-brady-aaron-rodgers/amp Interesting breakdown here. Brees & Matt Ryan listed as QBs who have arm strength issues, Alex Smith is not. They say his issue is/was pocket awareness: Alex Smith, Redskins Biggest weakness: Pocket presence Smith is one of the league’s smartest quarterbacks, but he misses a lot of reads because he is easily bothered in the pocket. Even the slightest pressure sends him into escape mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: How else would you do it? Madden? Go back and look at analysis of Alex when he was coming out of college by scouts and others vs what people are saying of Finley now. IMO a comp for Finley is Kirk Cousins, only Finley doesn’t have the arm that Cousins does. Still, they’re playing style is pretty similar. They’re ok athletes, but nothing special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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