Todd Haley, very disappointing so far.

[mistakey]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

That’s an expensive year of poor production.... 

Eh, we save 4 m by cutting him and you’re not gonna hit on everything.  I don’t think it’s that egregious personally.  Not optimal but not turrible 

[Kiwibrown]

12 minutes ago, mistakey said:

Eh, we save 4 m by cutting him and you’re not gonna hit on everything.  I don’t think it’s that egregious personally.  Not optimal but not turrible 

better than most of the work by Farm. Bowe got a lot money for less than Hubbard. 
Old man Dansby got to run around for 24 million. 

[bruceb]

15 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

In his post game press conference Hue stated that they decided to attack the chargers on the outside, they have a strong secondary and a weak linebacking core. How to make a dumb game plan 101. Their game plan avoided all f our best defenders, M, Lary O, and Denzel Ward, they played away from those guys.

There is talk that Hueball is overriding Haley.

Makes sense given the game plans we are seeing.

Haley probably is saying to himself: Go for it, dig your own grave, dude.

[Kiwibrown]

1 minute ago, bruceb said:

There is talk that Hueball is overriding Haley.

Makes sense given the game plans we are seeing.

Haley probably is saying to himself: Go for it, dig your own grave, dude.

Nothing would surprise me, to me Hue looks like an Oc with nothing to do, rather than a HC. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, mistakey said:

Eh, we save 4 m by cutting him and you’re not gonna hit on everything.  I don’t think it’s that egregious personally.  Not optimal but not turrible 

I hear ya, but that means we spent about 12.2 million for this 2018 season.

If we’re going to collectively gargle Dorsey’s bag when he hits on picks, I don’t think it’s egregious to point out an obvious whiff in FA.

TBH outside of Mitchell the whole FA class looks rather dismal.

[Kiwibrown]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I hear ya, but that means we spent about 12.2 million for this 2018 season.

If we’re going to collectively gargle Dorsey’s bag when he hits on picks, I don’t think it’s egregious to point out an obvious whiff in FA.

TBH outside of Mitchell the whole FA class looks rather dismal.

If you include his trades it gets a bit better, Randal, Landry and I don't think anyone could rightly of expected Taylor to suck sooooo bad. EJ Gaines has been decent also. 

I agree, I don't like it when people say that the sun shines out dorseys anus and his turds don't stink. He had n excellent draft, two good trades. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, Kiwibrown said:

If you include his trades it gets a bit better, Randal, Landry and I don't think anyone could rightly of expected Taylor to suck sooooo bad. EJ Gaines has been decent also. 

I agree, I don't like it when people say that the sun shines out dorseys anus and his turds don't stink. He had n excellent draft, two good trades. 

Randall has been his best move so far.

Landry hasn’t done much.

Taylor is what he is. Good QB’s aren’t readily available.

[Kiwibrown]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Randall has been his best move so far.

Landry hasn’t done much.

I hope they rethink how they wil use Landry in the coming weeks. I don't like him going away from the QB on corners and out routes. 

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Taylor is what he is. Good QB’s aren’t readily available.

 

[mistakey]

13 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I hear ya, but that means we spent about 12.2 million for this 2018 season.

If we’re going to collectively gargle Dorsey’s bag when he hits on picks, I don’t think it’s egregious to point out an obvious whiff in FA.

TBH outside of Mitchell the whole FA class looks rather dismal.

Landry is a welcome addition, Randall has been good 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

9 minutes ago, mistakey said:

Landry is a welcome addition, Randall has been good 

Landry has been ok, not sure I’ve seen him do much that Duke couldn’t if given the opportunity tbh. For 2 draft picks and 15 million a year I don’t hope we’d see him be more of an impact guy.

Obviously it’s early, but I’ve been somewhat disappointed.  Love his attitude though.

Randall has been really good.

[ditchdigger]

16 hours ago, bruceb said:

There is talk that Hueball is overriding Haley.

Makes sense given the game plans we are seeing.

Haley probably is saying to himself: Go for it, dig your own grave, dude.

There is not a single coach on that staff that believes they will be coaching in Cleveland next year.

Going into week 7 with the staff in full blown CYA mode feels real familiar. 

[CBrownsman]

16 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I hear ya, but that means we spent about 12.2 million for this 2018 season.

If we’re going to collectively gargle Dorsey’s bag when he hits on picks, I don’t think it’s egregious to point out an obvious whiff in FA.

TBH outside of Mitchell the whole FA class looks rather dismal.

I honestly think it was a good free agent class, and its not because they have succeded, but its because they have necessarily filled holes before the draft to make sure we could pick based on BPA and not necessarily based on need.

We got Taylor so that Baker could sit for a year, your right, no one could have seen how bad he played, he didn't look THAT terrible in Buffalo.  1 year contract only.

We got Landry because we needed a WR and couldn't trust Gordon. The only long term contract we signed.

We got Randall so we could move Peppers back to SS and bet set at safety. 2 year contract with the ability to decline the option.

We got Gaines, Carrie and Mitchell because our defensive back group needed help!  Gaines 1 year contract, Carrie 4 year contract with the ability to get out of it every year, Terrance Mithcell, 3 year contract with the ability to get out of it after 1 year.

We got Hyde because we needed a RB after Crowell left.  3 year contract with the ability ot get out of it after 1 year.

We got Hubbard because we wanted to at least give Coleman a chance at LT.  5 year contract with the ability to get out of it every year.

We got Chris Smith because we had no one last year behind Garrett and Ogbah.  3 year contract with the ability to get out after year 2.

We got Darren Fells because we didn't have a good blocking TE.  3 year contract with the ability to get out after 1 year.

These contracts were not bank breaking, but they were smart.  They are testing these players in our system, if they didn't fit we could get out of these contracts.  They were also filling very necessary holes, and if we successfully found their replacements in the draft, guess what? we can get out of these contracts and not keep them.  I don't think it was ever our expectations to pay as little as we did and get 3 premier CBs, an amazing RT, a superstar RB and the QBOTF, but any one of these players COULD have stepped up like Mitchell did, and been the future at the position.  If we make moves like this every year it will help us necessarily build through the draft and not break the bank on contracts for players we don't even know would be a good fit.  If they turn out to be a good fit, then you can pay them, like I'm sure we will to Randall.  Also it gives us the ability to pay our guys what they deserve to keep them here like when Garrett comes up for contract, or Ogunjobi, or Ward etc.

No, these aren't all superstars, but to call it a whiff on free agency seems like you were looking for stars and not getting what you were getting, chances for success and bridges to success.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

I honestly think it was a good free agent class, and its not because they have succeded, but its because they have necessarily filled holes before the draft to make sure we could pick based on BPA and not necessarily based on need.

Cool I guess ?‍♂️ If actually identifying good players isn’t needed to for the class to be good I guess any absurd set of parameters can be used.  

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

We got Taylor so that Baker could sit for a year, your right, no one could have seen how bad he played, he didn't look THAT terrible in Buffalo.  1 year contract only.

But he was bad in Buffalo.  They benched him for Peterman, traded him and drafted a guy in round 1.  And Baker didn’t sit but 2 games.

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

We got Landry because we needed a WR and couldn't trust Gordon. The only long term contract we signed.

I get it, but he hasn’t shown to be a 15/yr guy, at least not yet, although it’s early.

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

We got Randall so we could move Peppers back to SS and bet set at safety. 2 year contract with the ability to decline the option.

Great move.

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

We got Gaines, Carrie and Mitchell because our defensive back group needed help!  Gaines 1 year contract, Carrie 4 year contract with the ability to get out of it every year, Terrance Mithcell, 3 year contract with the ability to get out of it after 1 year.

Mitchell is a good get, Gaines meh, Carrie has been bad.

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

We got Hyde because we needed a RB after Crowell left.  3 year contract with the ability ot get out of it after 1 year.

Hyde left because we didn’t want to pay (or play) Crowell.  (Which is looking like a huge error btw)

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

We got Hubbard because we wanted to at least give Coleman a chance at LT.  5 year contract with the ability to get out of it every year.

Right.... but he’s sucked...... just like Coleman who was on a rookie deal.  What makes paying someone a lot tomsuvk better than paying someone much less to suck?

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

We got Chris Smith because we had no one last year behind Garrett and Ogbah.  3 year contract with the ability to get out after year 2.

Again, cool, but is he any better than Nassib?  I’m not sure he’s made a play yet.

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

We got Darren Fells because we didn't have a good blocking TE.  3 year contract with the ability to get out after 1 year.

Decent signing.

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

These contracts were not bank breaking, but they were smart.  They are testing these players in our system, if they didn't fit we could get out of these contracts.  They were also filling very necessary holes, and if we successfully found their replacements in the draft, guess what? we can get out of these contracts and not keep them.  I don't think it was ever our expectations to pay as little as we did and get 3 premier CBs, an amazing RT, a superstar RB and the QBOTF, but any one of these players COULD have stepped up like Mitchell did, and been the future at the position.  If we make moves like this every year it will help us necessarily build through the draft and not break the bank on contracts for players we don't even know would be a good fit.  If they turn out to be a good fit, then you can pay them, like I'm sure we will to Randall.  Also it gives us the ability to pay our guys what they deserve to keep them here like when Garrett comes up for contract, or Ogunjobi, or Ward etc.

Most of these guys didn’t “fill holes”, they’re just older, more expensive guys who are also holes that need to be filled eventually.

16 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

No, these aren't all superstars, but to call it a whiff on free agency seems like you were looking for stars and not getting what you were getting, chances for success and bridges to success.

No different than the draft really, just exponentially more expensive.

[CBrownsman]

10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Cool I guess ?‍♂️ If actually identifying good players isn’t needed to for the class to be good I guess any absurd set of parameters can be used.  

So I guess what would you rather us have done?

We have to overpay to get solid free agents here.  Players who are good choose to play for betters teams for less (see Tony Jefferson).

We could have over-payed for Nate Soldier at Tackle and been stuck with 4 years 62 million despite his terrible play...

Or we could have signed Malcom Bulter to a 5 year 61 million dollar contract and have him play worse than Mitchell and Gaines...

Free agency is a crap shoot.  Its hard to tell players will work well in your system.  Better to sign guys at low risk possible reward contracts and not lose much than to sign guys to big contracts and end up with Paul Kruger, or Donte Stallworth? All the other free agents we have signed that have worked so well for us in our past...

11 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

But he was bad in Buffalo.  They benched him for Peterman, traded him and drafted a guy in round 1.  And Baker didn’t sit but 2 games.

Taylor wasn't great in Buffalo but he had less talent around him and was able to do more with it than hes done here.  I was hoping he would hold off baker for a few more games at least.  It was worth a shot.

37 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Hyde left because we didn’t want to pay (or play) Crowell.  (Which is looking like a huge error btw)

You think Crowell was going to come back to "you me and 5 other guys could have run through that hole".  There were some bridges Hue burnt, Crow was one of them.

39 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Right.... but he’s sucked...... just like Coleman who was on a rookie deal.  What makes paying someone a lot tomsuvk better than paying someone much less to suck?

Nope he hasn't been great.  Not saying it wasn't worth a chance.  I think we all agree Coleman wasn't the answer either.

42 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Again, cool, but is he any better than Nassib?  I’m not sure he’s made a play yet.

Didn't see much from Nassib, didn't even make the team.  That being said you know as well as I do after years of seeing this crap every guy gets ride of the last guys players because they aren't him.  It was bound to happen.  If he lost his job to Chris Smith or to someone signed off the practice squad, Nassib wasn't lasting on this team.  I don't like it....like...at all...just the truth.

43 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Most of these guys didn’t “fill holes”, they’re just older, more expensive guys who are also holes that need to be filled eventually.

Again we needed a RB, we needed OT's we needed WR's we needed a blocking TE, we needed defensive backs, we needed a QB.  You may disagree that they filled holes, but taking a chance on these guys made it so we didn't NEED to draft these players, we could let the draft fall to us.

45 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

No different than the draft really, just exponentially more expensive.

I honestly don't know what you were hoping for.  If you would rather have started rookies and kept young cheaper developmental guys I guess we could have.  You would have been happier with Jason McCourtey as our #2 CB behind ward and Jason Taylor as our #3?  We would have had to draft a Free Safety or peppers or Calhoun would be there this year.  Mayfield would have started Day 1, Shon Coleman would still be our RT (or maybe Austin Corbett?),Telfer retired so I guess our blocking TE would be Charles?  Chubb would start day 1 to get mayfield BLASTED while learning to block on the jbo.  Carl Nassib and Nate Orchard would hang in there as our #3 and #4 DE, which worked well last year.  

If you wanted to sign big name guys to huge contracts, ask the Buccaneers how well that has worked for them trying to get out of the basement as big spenders.  The giants have been pretty big spenders with Vernon and Soldier and Jenoris Jenkins, they are playing well right?  Ask the Dolphins how spending big money has helped them become contenders.  Sometimes that does work, and sometimes it leaves your team in disarray with contracts you cant get out from under.  

I prefer to take my chances and use free agency to supplement while we continue to build through the draft.  Its never been a 1-2 year fix.  Unfortunately we are on year 1 of Dorsey...(hopefully year 3 if we count sashi but with every GM there is one step back as they get rid of the old guys)

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

35 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

So I guess what would you rather us have done?

We have to overpay to get solid free agents here.  Players who are good choose to play for betters teams for less (see Tony Jefferson).

We could have over-payed for Nate Soldier at Tackle and been stuck with 4 years 62 million despite his terrible play...

Or we could have signed Malcom Bulter to a 5 year 61 million dollar contract and have him play worse than Mitchell and Gaines...

Free agency is a crap shoot.  Its hard to tell players will work well in your system.  Better to sign guys at low risk possible reward contracts and not lose much than to sign guys to big contracts and end up with Paul Kruger, or Donte Stallworth? All the other free agents we have signed that have worked so well for us in our past...

Well I guess I’ll have to say it directly, but generally avoid UFA.  You’re guaranteed to pay top of the market prices, usually for mediocre talents.

35 minutes ago, CBrownsman said:

Taylor wasn't great in Buffalo but he had less talent around him and was able to do more with it than hes done here.  I was hoping he would hold off baker for a few more games at least.  It was worth a shot.

You think Crowell was going to come back to "you me and 5 other guys could have run through that hole".  There were some bridges Hue burnt, Crow was one of them.

Nope he hasn't been great.  Not saying it wasn't worth a chance.  I think we all agree Coleman wasn't the answer either.

Didn't see much from Nassib, didn't even make the team.  That being said you know as well as I do after years of seeing this crap every guy gets ride of the last guys players because they aren't him.  It was bound to happen.  If he lost his job to Chris Smith or to someone signed off the practice squad, Nassib wasn't lasting on this team.  I don't like it....like...at all...just the truth.

Again we needed a RB, we needed OT's we needed WR's we needed a blocking TE, we needed defensive backs, we needed a QB.  You may disagree that they filled holes, but taking a chance on these guys made it so we didn't NEED to draft these players, we could let the draft fall to us.

I honestly don't know what you were hoping for.  If you would rather have started rookies and kept young cheaper developmental guys I guess we could have.  You would have been happier with Jason McCourtey as our #2 CB behind ward and Jason Taylor as our #3?  We would have had to draft a Free Safety or peppers or Calhoun would be there this year.  Mayfield would have started Day 1, Shon Coleman would still be our RT (or maybe Austin Corbett?),Telfer retired so I guess our blocking TE would be Charles?  Chubb would start day 1 to get mayfield BLASTED while learning to block on the jbo.  Carl Nassib and Nate Orchard would hang in there as our #3 and #4 DE, which worked well last year.  

If you wanted to sign big name guys to huge contracts, ask the Buccaneers how well that has worked for them trying to get out of the basement as big spenders.  The giants have been pretty big spenders with Vernon and Soldier and Jenoris Jenkins, they are playing well right?  Ask the Dolphins how spending big money has helped them become contenders.  Sometimes that does work, and sometimes it leaves your team in disarray with contracts you cant get out from under.  

I prefer to take my chances and use free agency to supplement while we continue to build through the draft.  Its never been a 1-2 year fix.  Unfortunately we are on year 1 of Dorsey...(hopefully year 3 if we count sashi but with every GM there is one step back as they get rid of the old guys)

I’m not honestly saying we shouldn’t have signed anyone, but to insist that players are still great signings even after they’ve shown they can’t play and aren’t any better than the holes they supposedly filled is hella dumb.

In free agency there are hits and whiffs, and most of our free agents have been whiffs.  Why is that so hard to admit?  

I’m not saying Dorsey is doing a bad job or anything, but having some level of objectivity doesn’t hurt.

I will argue that some of these guys (Smith, Hubbard, Carrie, etc) aren’t any better than the guys they replaced though, despite spending 25 million bucks on them this year. Just because you have the money to spend doesn’t mean you have to, it rolls over, so unless you are significantly upgrading, I’d rather maintain continuity and let the youngsters grow and develop.