Marcus Mariota: Is it Time ??

[TitanSS]

6 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

He has to throw guys open on just about every play though. From time to time yeah you need to give your guys a chance to make a play I agree and he needs to be better there...but when you have to on almost every play? Not even Tom Brady is asked to do that. Why don’t you hold the receivers responsible for making a play for Marcus by getting open? Look what happened when Sharpe abused his man against Philly. Touchdown. He hasn’t done that since. Yes, Marcus needs to anticipate better, not drop his eyes, throw guys open more often, and not throw off his back foot but you’ve literally 180’d to blaming everything on everyone else to blaming everything on Marcus and neither is fair. There’s plenty of blame to go around.

I placed blame on LaFleur too in the same post. And it's not absolving the WRs of blame. It's pointing out a misconception that we seem to have that someone is going to have 2 yards of separation on every play. It's not like that in the NFL.

If we're shaming our WRs for not getting open, shouldn't we be praising Butler for covering WRs by the same standard, even though it's a reception?

If our WRs have been covered, then the majority of Butler's receptions allowed have been covered as well.

Edited October 17, 2018 by TitanSS

[TitanLegend]

Just two games ago, Mariota was a franchise QB according to most here. The overreaction week to week, while understandable maybe in the GDT during the game as frustration is at it's highest, is ridiculous this far in to the week.

Marcus had a bad day vs Baltimore. The entire offense did.

To date though, he was average against Miami, solid against Jacksonville, good to great against Philly, average vs Buffalo(everyone noting his low passing yards in that game, but if the drop didn't happen and we didn't fumble it away twice his yardage probably looks like an average day passing) and bad vs Baltimore.

So to me, especially factoring in the hand issue, he's what he's always been here. A decent QB. Andy Dalton, Jimmy G(going off what he's shown anyway), Ryan Tannehill-type QBs.

The problem with him however is he's always hurting himself which lowers his level of play to being below that on a far too frequent rate.

[TitanSS]

7 minutes ago, TitanLegend said:

Just two games ago, Mariota was a franchise QB according to most here. The overreaction week to week, while understandable maybe in the GDT during the game as frustration is at it's highest, is ridiculous this far in to the week.

Marcus had a bad day vs Baltimore. The entire offense did.

To date though, he was average against Miami, solid against Jacksonville, good to great against Philly, average vs Buffalo(everyone noting his low passing yards in that game, but if the drop didn't happen and we didn't fumble it away twice his yardage probably looks like an average day passing) and bad vs Baltimore.

So to me, especially factoring in the hand issue, he's what he's always been here. A decent QB. Andy Dalton, Jimmy G(going off what he's shown anyway), Ryan Tannehill-type QBs.

The problem with him however is he's always hurting himself which lowers his level of play to being below that on a far too frequent rate.

I don't think anyone is trying to argue he's worse than those guys. I would put him right there with Ryan Tannehill and Alex Smith.

The issue is a lot of people believed he was a franchise QB and not someone who is just adequate. They want to blame every issue on someone other than him.

Most people believed that was his floor, but that he could achieve greatness. No one wants to hear that if he hasn't done it by year 4 he's not going to. I didn't want to either.

[TitanLegend]

1 minute ago, TitanSS said:

I don't think anyone is trying to argue he's worse than those guys. I would put him right there with Ryan Tannehill and Alex Smith.

The issue is a lot of people believed he was a franchise QB and not someone who is just adequate. They want to blame every issue on someone other than him.

Most people believed that was his floor, but that he could achieve greatness. No one wants to hear that if he hasn't done it by year 4 he's not going to. I didn't want to either.

Sounds to me as if the issue was overrating him from the start. He's never been great or elite or whatever. The stretch he had in 2016 was cool and all and the numbers looked great, but was largely against mediocre or worse defenses.

Mariota, if he stays healthy, is good enough to win with. His one trip to the playoffs he showed he's not gonna fold in the post season/under that kind of pressure like Andy Dalton does(granted it's one trip and maybe he folds in any trip after that, but the results so far look fine), and he generally takes a step up in play late in games when we need it the most.

I'm not worried about needing a new QB because Marcus isn't good enough. I'm worried about needing a new QB if Marcus can never stay healthy enough.

[KingTitan]

5 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

I don't think anyone is trying to argue he's worse than those guys. I would put him right there with Ryan Tannehill and Alex Smith.

The issue is a lot of people believed he was a franchise QB and not someone who is just adequate. They want to blame every issue on someone other than him.

Most people believed that was his floor, but that he could achieve greatness. No one wants to hear that if he hasn't done it by year 4 he's not going to. I didn't want to either.

I concluded he isn't the "franchise QB.". But he is the QB for this franchise. He isn't a guy that will elevate in any system with any player. It has to be ideal for him. 

I think he will be here for at least 4 more years, unless something happens with his health or coaches/GM. 

 

[dtait93]

I mean didn’t we all know going in to another new offense that it was going to take awhile for things to click? We should have all known that losing Delanie and Matthews for the year, Marcus’ ulnar nerve, Lewan going out for almost 3 games, Conklin just returning from his ACL injury, and Taywan and Sharpe stepping in to roles they clearly aren’t ready for that it was going to take even longer for the passing attack to click.

But also...what about the rushing attack? Our starting o-line under the new zone blocking scheme has barely played together...and that’s not something to minimize. Being in rhythm and in unison is huge for an o-line, especially one that is under a ZBS. We all know a QB’s best friend is the running game...Marcus doesn’t have many friends as we stand here today..

This offense isn’t going to hit any sort of stride for awhile.

[KingTitan]

8 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

I mean didn’t we all know going in to another new offense that it was going to take awhile for things to click? We should have all known that losing Delanie and Matthews for the year, Marcus’ ulnar nerve, Lewan going out for almost 3 games, Conklin just returning from his ACL injury, and Taywan and Sharpe stepping in to roles they clearly aren’t ready for that it was going to take even longer for the passing attack to click.

But also...what about the rushing attack? Our starting o-line under the new zone blocking scheme has barely played together...and that’s not something to minimize. Being in rhythm and in unison is huge for an o-line, especially one that is under a ZBS. We all know a QB’s best friend is the running game...Marcus doesn’t have many friends as we stand here today..

This offense isn’t going to hit any sort of stride for awhile.

Most QBs not named Brees Brady and Rodgers need some semblance of a running game to be effective. 

It sounds like excuses and maybe they are. But they still are valid points. 

Saw a couple of anaylst say it was going to be rough for the Titans because of the new offense. 

 

[TitanLegend]

4 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

Most QBs not named Brees Brady and Rodgers need some semblance of a running game to be effective. 

It sounds like excuses and maybe they are. But they still are valid points. 

Saw a couple of anaylst say it was going to be rough for the Titans because of the new offense. 

 

Orlovsky said numerous times it'd take quite a bit of time to get going.

With that being said, that does not excuse the play calling and performance the past two weeks.

[ttitansfan4life]

Mariota may have a game like the Eagles and look good but he’s had far too many on the other side of the spectrum. Just because he had a good game against the Eagles doesn’t negate the Dolphins(crazy game but still), Bills, and the Ravens game. He’s a huge part of the issue of why the offense hasn’t scored since the Eagles game. He doesn’t deserve all the blame but he’s definitely at the top of the list for me. Right now, he’s playing like a bottom 5 QB.  Whether that’s not trusting his receivers, OL had a rough game, injury, etc. He needs to play better. Yes there’s overreaction because one week he’ll look like a franchise QB and then play like a bottom 5 QB for the next few weeks. Right now he’s not a franchise QB and he won’t be one until he consistently plays like one.

[Dr.Doom52]

What I can't get my head around is....who are people expecting to get to replace him on a team that if Marcus is to blame, is ready to win now, if he is replaced? If Cousins was available or a trade for Alex Smith was a possibility maybe I could see being ready to move on. 

Would we be better with Tyrod Taylor, Sam Bradford, Fitzmagic, Osweiler, Chase Daniels, or some other teams back up??? If the thought is trade for someone elses franchise QB, not sure anyone other than OAK is willing to let their guy go, and if they are willing, then he is not a franchise QB either. Is the thought to draft one at 17 overall...because evry other team with a need at QB will have already picked a QB if he is worthy, so we reach for a guy that is not a high prospect? 

Got it...we trade up and lose multiple first round picks plus other draft capital for the 1st or 2nd highest prospect(which incidentaly is whar Marcus was) and hope he developes in a few years into something better than we have. 

I obviously have all the problems but no solution, but the best approach I can see is to draft a late 2nd or 3rd round guy and hope in a couple of years we have a Brees/Rivers situation.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Dr.Doom52

[TitanSS]

I honestly don't think we'll be picking at 17th overall unless we just all the sudden solve the offensive woes that have plagued us in 5 out of 6 games. Maybe we improve.

But yeah, either way, it's a problem without a solution. There isn't a guy worth replacing him with in every draft, and in the ones where there is they're usually first overall.

[Dr.Doom52]

I would never obsolve Marcus of a reasonable amount of fault, but on the list he is certianally not at the top. I would actually fault playcalling at the top. We run on what seems like 90% of out first downs...which leaves us in 2nd and 7 at best and it seems more often that not it is 9+ yrds to go.  We also only seem to go 5 wide on the rarest of occasion, but it seems like it it very successful...yet rarly used. I do realize that we can't live on that but we can show it to start a drive then motion Lewis to the backfield. 

But beyond situational play calling issues, what happened to roll-outs, I thought he was big on that kind of play calling...getting the QB on the move and moving the pocket...I honestly don't remember the last roll-out we ran on offense. One would assume that would be a perfect fit for MM. 

Second at fault I would put the receiving talent he is currently working with. But it is crystal clear that teams don't respect anyone besides Davis, which is why Taylor actually pops opne on the deep pass and Sharp gets hie 4 catches per game. Just look at the cushion we give all of our opponents WR's and TE's, seems like we are 5 yards off when they catch the 8 yard pass on 3rd and 3!!! Then look how they play us on 3rd down...

Marcus is clutch as we could ever ask for, and is a fearless competitor, this much we know...what we don't know is what he can do with a full compliment of actual weapons!!

 

[TitanLegend]

24 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

I honestly don't think we'll be picking at 17th overall unless we just all the sudden solve the offensive woes that have plagued us in 5 out of 6 games. Maybe we improve.

But yeah, either way, it's a problem without a solution. There isn't a guy worth replacing him with in every draft, and in the ones where there is they're usually first overall.

I mean the problem with acting like the last two games are gonna be what our entire season is like is the 3 game stretch where, while we didn't score a ton of points outside of the Eagles game, the offense was creative and did well given the circumstances.

It's possible the offense sucks the entire season. It's possible we bounce back and look like we did in weeks 2, 3 and 4 in terms of creativity and play calling. I mean last year we started with a loss, had two really good games in a row vs JAcksonville and Seattle, then got embarrassed by Houston and lost an ugly one to Miami(granted Cassell played in that game but still), so it's not really all that dissimilar to what we did last year. We still managed to rebound and go 7-4 the rest of the season and of course got in to the playoffs.

I tried to say it after week 1, tried to say it each game of our 3 game winning streak, and I'm saying it now after the last two losses, we still don't really know what this season is gonna be. One game or as we've seen even a few games don't dictate your entire season.

To me, how we look in Dallas after the bye will probably be what's the most indicative of this season, especially in regards to the offense(I think the defense has proven it's pretty good all things considered) to me. I dunno what's going to happen in London vs the Chargers. No way of knowing how the team is going to react having to be and play in London. Would be great to get out of that game with a win in any way possible, I don't care how ugly one or all sides of the ball looks. Getting out of London 4-3 and in to the bye would be golden.

That being said I think most of us expect to be 3-4 going in to the bye. The offense will have a bye week to get it together and get to go play a middling Dallas team, New England is after that and then we start our stretch of @Colts, @Texans, Jets, Jags, @NYG, Skins, Colts.

So probably looking at being 4-5 headed in to that stretch if we can take care of Dallas. If the offense can start to click after the bye, we can get 5 or 6 wins out of that stretch.

So as ugly as things are right now, I'm holding out til the bye/Dallas game. If we still look bad on offense then, I'm really gonna start to worry.

[ragevsuall17]

Not only do we not know how good or bad we are... Do we even know what we're supposed to be... What's our identity? 

We're no longer exotic smash mouth... But what are we? 

We haven't really been a passing team... Do we even have the receiving options for that? 

But we're not a running team, averaging 3.2 ypc... 

So what are we exactly? 

[TitanSS]

12 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

Not only do we not know how good or bad we are... Do we even know what we're supposed to be... What's our identity? 

We're no longer exotic smash mouth... But what are we? 

We haven't really been a passing team... Do we even have the receiving options for that? 

But we're not a running team, averaging 3.2 ypc... 

So what are we exactly? 

Bad.