Is that the light at the end of the tunnel? (O.T. Thread)

[candyman93]

23 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Feels like that’s the plan.  Put the plebs back in their place.

Inflation on cars and houses is 100% a supply issue. A lot of the other stuff is corporations blaming inflation and Covid (those 3 weeks we shut down 2 and a half years ago) for price increases while still posting record profits.  If I was a smarter man I might think they were full of ****.

I’ve said and felt for months this thing was going to crash in October. Just wait for the next CPI report (I think October 13th?). The only reason things haven’t become catastrophic is because energy prices have decreased a little bit. However, that’s only because of the oil reserves being opened.

 

It’s matching up with 2008.

[MWil23]

On 9/24/2022 at 8:09 PM, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Feels like that’s the plan.  Put the plebs back in their place.

Inflation on cars and houses is 100% a supply issue. A lot of the other stuff is corporations blaming inflation and Covid (those 3 weeks we shut down 2 and a half years ago) for price increases while still posting record profits.  If I was a smarter man I might think they were full of ****.

The correlation between the rise of AirBnB properties and homelessness nationwide is undeniable. The housing market has been lagging for 15+ years now in terms of keeping up with supply.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

29 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

The correlation between the rise of AirBnB properties and homelessness nationwide is undeniable. The housing market has been lagging for 15+ years now in terms of keeping up with supply.

It’s not just AirBnB, it’s companies buying homes to then rent to individuals long term.  They’re coming in with all cash offers, driving up prices, killing supply and then renting to people with little competition.

I know this country worships at the altar of capitalism, but show me an industry that isn’t made worse by the enormous corporations. They control healthcare, pharmaceuticals, farming/agriculture, banking, airfare, etc., and before long housing.

Raising rates is all well and good at slowing demand temporarily, but unless legislation is passed to prevent companies from owing single family homes or building increases dramatically, this isn’t a solution, it’s just another barrier to home ownership.

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s not just AirBnB, it’s companies buying homes to then rent to individuals long term.  They’re coming in with all cash offers, driving up prices, killing supply and then renting to people with little competition.

No doubt

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I know this country worships at the altar of capitalism, but show me an industry that isn’t made worse by the enormous corporations. They control healthcare, pharmaceuticals, farming/agriculture, banking, airfare, etc., and before long housing.

Not to get into the weeds here, but really a lot of your interest groups who petition and legally bribe Congress to prop up their stuff. To be blunt, you can blame Big Pharma's past for 90% of the reasons that people who didn't buy into Covid/the vaccine for what they've done in the past in terms of screwing over Americans in the pocketbook. Throw in how Koppel and Pelosi have had their net worth double during Covid by insider trading and others, and well, here we are. My goal isn't to get into Covid or anything else so much as to show an example of what happens "Boy who cried Wolf" style and the decades of distrust that they sowed here.

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Raising rates is all well and good at slowing demand temporarily, but unless legislation is passed to prevent companies from owing single family homes or building increases dramatically, this isn’t a solution, it’s just another barrier to home ownership.

Even people like me who are trying to expand into being a landlord on a side hustle. My goal is to continue to provide QUALITY housing to students/families who need it. Yes, I'll be making some money, and yes, I'll be taking on risk (Entrepreneur translates to risk taker, so...). However, I also believe in flipping those homes and making them quality for people to live in and charging reasonable rates...and the fact is, I can't compete with larger entities who make cash offers sight unseen.

Here's another problem no one wants to talk about. Farmers in my community are paying 400% on fertilizer and seed. What are they supposed to do? How's the government helping them? How are they supposed to not go under, let alone make a profit?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

No doubt

Not to get into the weeds here, but really a lot of your interest groups who petition and legally bribe Congress to prop up their stuff. To be blunt, you can blame Big Pharma's past for 90% of the reasons that people who didn't buy into Covid/the vaccine for what they've done in the past in terms of screwing over Americans in the pocketbook.

It’s a gross business all around tbh.  You can’t run things like a business for decades and then expect people to give you blind trust like you’re not still a business with a very specific end goal of max profits.

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Throw in how Koppel and Pelosi have had their net worth double during Covid by insider trading and others, and well, here we are. My goal isn't to get into Covid or anything else so much as to show an example of what happens "Boy who cried Wolf" style and the decades of distrust that they sowed here.

It’s not just politicians, rich people in general did well because they have the financial ability take advantage of others misfortunes tbh.  That said, how we as a county continue to allow sitting politics down to own stock is unreal. Put your assets in a double blind trust the day you run for office and leave them there for 5-10 years after leaving office imo.

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Even people like me who are trying to expand into being a landlord on a side hustle. My goal is to continue to provide QUALITY housing to students/families who need it. Yes, I'll be making some money, and yes, I'll be taking on risk (Entrepreneur translates to risk taker, so...). However, I also believe in flipping those homes and making them quality for people to live in and charging reasonable rates...and the fact is, I can't compete with larger entities who make cash offers sight unseen.

While i believe you and your stated intentions, the fact of the matter is many people who own/rent homes do not have those same moral standards. Many are predatory and singularly focused on maximizing their wealth regardless of how it impacts others. Anyone jacking rent up on people to well above the amount necessary to cover their nut and make a reasonable profit is predatory and can kick rocks imo.

As far as I’m concerned anything over two homes should be taxed entirely differently and on a progressive scale.  Making a couple bucks off of your starter home or offsetting the cost of your winter house in Florida with some airbnb rentals in the summer is one thing, using your wealth to take advantage of others is another.  The middle aged dude with a property or two has been around a long time though and is far from our biggest issue now. 

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Here's another problem no one wants to talk about. Farmers in my community are paying 400% on fertilizer and seed. What are they supposed to do?

This is exactly what I was referring earlier.  There’s like a half dozen agricultural corporations that control the entire market.  If you’ve never heard how some of these companies strong arm farmers, check it out sometime, it’s unreal.  Well, not unreal, expected.  Unreal that we allow it.

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

How's the government helping them? How are they supposed to not go under, let alone make a profit?

They’re not supposed to make a profit.  The profit goes to Monsanto, Perdue, etc., whoever essentially owns their arse. If you mean an independent farmer, well, lol good luck.  

[MWil23]

24 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s a gross business all around tbh.  You can’t run things like a business for decades and then expect people to give you blind trust like you’re not still a business with a very specific end goal of max profits.

It’s not just politicians, rich people in general did well because they have the financial ability take advantage of others misfortunes tbh.  That said, how we as a county continue to allow sitting politics down to own stock is unreal. Put your assets in a double blind trust the day you run for office and leave them there for 5-10 years after leaving office imo.

100% agreed here.

24 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

While i believe you and your stated intentions, the fact of the matter is many people who own/rent homes do not have those same moral standards. Many are predatory and singularly focused on maximizing their wealth regardless of how it impacts others. Anyone jacking rent up on people to well above the amount necessary to cover their nut and make a reasonable profit is predatory and can kick rocks imo.

As far as I’m concerned anything over two homes should be taxed entirely differently and on a progressive scale.  Making a couple bucks off of your starter home or offsetting the cost of your winter house in Florida with some airbnb rentals in the summer is one thing, using your wealth to take advantage of others is another.  The middle aged dude with a property or two has been around a long time though and is far from our biggest issue now. 

We disagree on the taxes portion for the 3rd+ home (I know, I know, we're all shocked here LOL), but I think having universal housing standards and registering your LLC and properties to have livable standards for your tenants should absolutely be a MUST.

I think adding those universal standards (no, dude in my town, you can't put your hot water heater on a timer, you have to fix the toilet, you have to fix the leaky roof, etc.) and utilizing fines, liens, and condemnation is the way to go. So, you are forcing landlords into higher standards (and maybe even putting a cap on the amount you can make) are all fair and reasonable. I don't believe in a capital gains or progressive tax rate for a genuine single entity entrepreneur when there are other better avenues.

JMHO 

24 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

This is exactly what I was referring earlier.  There’s like a half dozen agricultural corporations that control the entire market.  If you’ve never heard how some of these companies strong arm farmers, check it out sometime, it’s unreal.  Well, not unreal, expected.  Unreal that we allow it.

They’re not supposed to make a profit.  The profit goes to Monsanto, Perdue, etc., whoever essentially owns their arse. If you mean an independent farmer, well, lol good luck.  

Yes, I'm referring to your "Joe the Farmer" like in my community. I live in a village of under 5,000 people. It's a travesty. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

18 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

100% agreed here.

We disagree on the taxes portion for the 3rd+ home (I know, I know, we're all shocked here LOL), but I think having universal housing standards and registering your LLC and properties to have livable standards for your tenants should absolutely be a MUST.

I think adding those universal standards (no, dude in my town, you can't put your hot water heater on a timer, you have to fix the toilet, you have to fix the leaky roof, etc.) and utilizing fines, liens, and condemnation is the way to go. So, you are forcing landlords into higher standards (and maybe even putting a cap on the amount you can make) are all fair and reasonable. I don't believe in a capital gains or progressive tax rate for a genuine single entity entrepreneur when there are other better avenues.

I mean, sure.  Anything is better than the nothingburger we have now.  Capping profits, fines, making a very easy, streamlined process for withholding rent until the property is brought to standards would all be helpful.
 

My point with the progressive tax rates is to remove the incentive/financial benefit for owning a slew of homes and essentially becoming wealthy by hoarding resources and providing no value to your community, not so much making it harder for a guy to have a stream of passive income in retirement or whatever. 

18 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

 

Yes, I'm referring to your "Joe the Farmer" like in my community. I live in a village of under 5,000 people. It's a travesty. 

Oh that ship sailed a while ago. Those dudes are holding on because it’s either all they know or something they love.  Profit margins are slim and to make any real money you need a mess of land and resources.

For all the jokes about Ohio being full of farms and corn, we’re still 10th in the county as far as population density.  Go to places like Kansas and such and you can drive for hours and see nothing but corn fields.  Ranches in Texas that require a helicopter to get from point A to point B with any speed or efficiency.  A lot of what we have here are bordering on hobby farms at this point.  Sure they may grow some corn or raise some animals, but it’s not their sole or perhaps even primary source of income.

[MWil23]

38 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, sure.  Anything is better than the nothingburger we have now.  Capping profits, fines, making a very easy, streamlined process for withholding rent until the property is brought to standards would all be helpful.
 

My point with the progressive tax rates is to remove the incentive/financial benefit for owning a slew of homes and essentially becoming wealthy by hoarding resources and providing no value to your community, not so much making it harder for a guy to have a stream of passive income in retirement or whatever. 

IMO by doing "my model" above, people like me still get solid tax breaks and perks that I use on depreciation and then pour back into my tangible investment (the house) to fix up and pocket some cash along the way, then after 20-30 years have a tangible asset that I can sell that I own "free and clear" just like any other commodity like a stock option, for example. It's another retirement vehicle if you will.

38 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Oh that ship sailed a while ago. Those dudes are holding on because it’s either all they know or something they love.  Profit margins are slim and to make any real money you need a mess of land and resources.

For all the jokes about Ohio being full of farms and corn, we’re still 10th in the county as far as population density.  Go to places like Kansas and such and you can drive for hours and see nothing but corn fields.  Ranches in Texas that require a helicopter to get from point A to point B with any speed or efficiency.  A lot of what we have here are bordering on hobby farms at this point.  Sure they may grow some corn or raise some animals, but it’s not their sole or perhaps even primary source of income.

A lot of these farms here in Ohio are also generational, meaning they're all owned free and clear, so they're still able to make some decent money since about their only overhead is seed and fertilizer, plus maintaining expensive equipment. There are also huge tax breaks for farmers, but yeah I get what you're saying.

MOST of the farmers around me are actually hired hands because some dude in Tennessee owns a few thousand acres and he pays them to do all of the work. Really crazy stuff.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

20 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

IMO by doing "my model" above, people like me still get solid tax breaks and perks that I use on depreciation and then pour back into my tangible investment (the house) to fix up and pocket some cash along the way, then after 20-30 years have a tangible asset that I can sell that I own "free and clear" just like any other commodity like a stock option, for example. It's another retirement vehicle if you will.

yeah for stuff like an individual dude with a property or two, whatever, but over time some of those dudes essentially just become slum lords preying upon people in a bad way.

I had a neighbor some years ago tell me I should invest with them in some houses in Dayton. They owned a few and by THEIR admission were absolute **** boxes (they said 10k buys me in at half for reference).  They’d rent to absolutely anyone and preferred that they be criminals/heavy drug users and weary of police so they could boot them when they inevitably miss rent so they could keep their deposit (knowing they wouldn’t call the cops) and wash, rinse, repeat.  I can’t imagine the look on my face as they were describing their side “hustle”.  They even had one burn down that I’m still not convinced may not have been for insurance payouts (just speculating).

If people just did the right thing and charged fair rent and provided suitable housing for that rent, we likely wouldn’t be having this conversation.  And I realize many people do, I’m not implying anyone who has a rental property is an *******, I’ve just seen too many instances people not doing it the right way and any legislation to force them to do so is aces in my book.

20 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

A lot of these farms here in Ohio are also generational, meaning they're all owned free and clear, so they're still able to make some decent money since about their only overhead is seed and fertilizer, plus maintaining expensive equipment. There are also huge tax breaks for farmers, but yeah I get what you're saying.

Generational is the only way you’d own it.  I think I mentioned this before but my pops used to have a 500 acre cattle farm. Bought it at 19-20 (mid 1950’s) for the inflation adjusted equivalent of like 200k (it was originally only 325 acres with the house).  For something similar like that now you’re looking at 7 figures.  
 

Growing and becoming a farmer isn’t a thing unless you either already own a lot of family land/farm or are planning on working for someone who does.

20 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

MOST of the farmers around me are actually hired hands because some dude in Tennessee owns a few thousand acres and he pays them to do all of the work. Really crazy stuff.

Same concepts as other industries.  Rich guys can keep prices low due to volume, kill competition, increase market share when competition collapses and the control market price as they have little competition.  

[MWil23]

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

yeah for stuff like an individual dude with a property or two, whatever, but over time some of those dudes essentially just become slum lords preying upon people in a bad way.

I had a neighbor some years ago tell me I should invest with them in some houses in Dayton. They owned a few and by THEIR admission were absolute **** boxes (they said 10k buys me in at half for reference).  They’d rent to absolutely anyone and preferred that they be criminals/heavy drug users and weary of police so they could boot them when they inevitably miss rent so they could keep their deposit (knowing they wouldn’t call the cops) and wash, rinse, repeat.  I can’t imagine the look on my face as they were describing their side “hustle”.  They even had one burn down that I’m still not convinced may not have been for insurance payouts (just speculating).

If people just did the right thing and charged fair rent and provided suitable housing for that rent, we likely wouldn’t be having this conversation.  And I realize many people do, I’m not implying anyone who has a rental property is an *******, I’ve just seen too many instances people not doing it the right way and any legislation to force them to do so is aces in my book.

So, last year I got a text from one of my student tenants that the toilet was leaking. I came down in the middle of the Browns/Bengals game with my tools, brought my own towels to clean it up, and had it fixed for them within 30 minutes. They all over the top thanked me, which I laughed off a bit, but then it stimulated an impromptu conversation the next day about one of our guy's fiance asking us about her landlord who was a slumlord and her living conditions...so at that moment, I realized how BAD it is for some of these kids.

I make some decent money off of them, but it's a solid space and I've sunk a lot into it/even furnished it for them with new stuff, and they basically all but begged me to buy up a place for sale in town and rent from me. It was absolutely gut wrenching stuff. But, it's been a way to think about how I can make some money and provide a quality and needed service in my community for these young adults...and honestly, maybe even retire early. Win/Win/Win Michael Scott style.

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Generational is the only way you’d own it.  I think I mentioned this before but my pops used to have a 500 acre cattle farm. Bought it at 19-20 (mid 1950’s) for the inflation adjusted equivalent of like 200k (it was originally only 325 acres with the house).  For something similar like that now you’re looking at 7 figures.  
 

Growing and becoming a farmer isn’t a thing unless you either already own a lot of family land/farm or are planning on working for someone who does.

Same concepts as other industries.  Rich guys can keep prices low due to volume, kill competition, increase market share when competition collapses and the control market price as they have little competition.  

A friend of mine's dad was offered 7+ figures from a huge housing company for his 100+ acre farm and told them to pound sand. I mean, good for him, but for the other 90% of us...who turns that deal down?  

And people like him turning that deal down shows how close we are to it getting infinitely worse.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

So, last year I got a text from one of my student tenants that the toilet was leaking. I came down in the middle of the Browns/Bengals game with my tools, brought my own towels to clean it up, and had it fixed for them within 30 minutes. They all over the top thanked me, which I laughed off a bit, but then it stimulated an impromptu conversation the next day about one of our guy's fiance asking us about her landlord who was a slumlord and her living conditions...so at that moment, I realized how BAD it is for some of these kids.

I make some decent money off of them, but it's a solid space and I've sunk a lot into it/even furnished it for them with new stuff, and they basically all but begged me to buy up a place for sale in town and rent from me. It was absolutely gut wrenching stuff. But, it's been a way to think about how I can make some money and provide a quality and needed service in my community for these young adults...and honestly, maybe even retire early. Win/Win/Win Michael Scott style.

And having rental properties is necessary, not everyone wants to own a home at all times.  Maybe someone is not ready to settle down or just moved into an area and has no clue where they may want to buy, a rental is a perfect fit. 
 

All most are asking is to not be predatory and that’s too much.  

10 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

A friend of mine's dad was offered 7+ figures from a huge housing company for his 100+ acre farm and told them to pound sand. I mean, good for him, but for the other 90% of us...who turns that deal down?  

And people like him turning that deal down shows how close we are to it getting infinitely worse.

People like that can turn down a deal like that for two reasons.

1. they’re doing ok financially and would rather have the property than the money.  Not to say they have that kind of money, just that they don’t need it.

2. that offer will be there tomorrow, and the day after and the day after that.  They didn’t turn down the offer for good, they just said “not now”.

Edited September 26, 2022 by LETSGOBROWNIES

[candyman93]

TRUTH

 

[candyman93]

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

 

This whole thing seems super scientific.

[Dawgpoun8017]

1 hour ago, candyman93 said: