MVP Race

[jaa1025]

5 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

Before i pick apart everything you typed. Which i got to be honest with you, so much of what you typed reeks of all time homerisim or someone who has watched football no longer than 1 year. But before we get to that, just a quick question to confirm what kind of poster i am dealing with. What is mahomes overall record vs winning teams?

Yes, I am a homer. I've watched football since the early 90's. I've lived through 2+ decades of bad QB play, 49er backups, cast offs from other teams and watched teams draft and groom QBs and win superbowls. 

To answer your question, no single player plays against an entire team. I won't even entertain that line of thought. Neither player plays defense and neither player plays special teams. Mahomes put the Chiefs in position to win in each game in the 4th quarter except against the Seahawks when he didn't fumble (Williams and Conley that led to a 2 score swing) and didn't play defense in the 2nd half. 

 

However, why don't you look to see how they perform against top 10 DVOA rated defenses? Mahomes runs circles around Brees. 

Mahomes

Baltimore-35/53, 377, 66.0, 2 TD 1 INT. (bad throw deep)

Denver (1)-28/45, 304, 62.2, 1 TD 0 INT

Denver (2)-24/34, 303, 70.6, 4 TD, 1 INT (I don't remember this as much, but deep pass attempt to Kelce. )

Jacksonville-22/38, 313, 1 rushing TD, 2 INT (wet game, 1 was deep pass for Hill and other was a meaningless 30-7 slant pass that was actually a good pass but a great play by Bouye)

Cleveland- 23/32, 375, 71.9, 3 TD, 1 INT (hail marry at end of the half...Hill stopped route for some reason)

Chargers (1) 15/27, 256, 4 TD 0 INT

Chargers (2) 24/34, 243, 70.6, 2 TD 0 INT

 

Brees

Baltimore-22/30, 212, 73.3, 2 TD 0 INT

Cleveland-28/35, 243, 80.0, 2 TD 0 INT

Dallas- 18/28, 127, 64.3, 1 TD 1 INT

MIN-18/23, 120, 1 TD 1 INT

 

[jaa1025]

47 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Except for the two most important factors. 

1. Rodgers broke the all time single season passer rating record. 

2. Rodgers led his team to 15-1

And Rodgers won the head to head matchup.

[Bearerofnews]

24 minutes ago, jaa1025 said:

Yes, I am a homer. I've watched football since the early 90's. I've lived through 2+ decades of bad QB play, 49er backups, cast offs from other teams and watched teams draft and groom QBs and win superbowls. 

To answer your question, no single player plays against an entire team. I won't even entertain that line of thought. Neither player plays defense and neither player plays special teams. Mahomes put the Chiefs in position to win in each game in the 4th quarter except against the Seahawks when he didn't fumble (Williams and Conley that led to a 2 score swing) and didn't play defense in the 2nd half. 

 

However, why don't you look to see how they perform against top 10 DVOA rated defenses? Mahomes runs circles around Brees. 

Mahomes

Baltimore-35/53, 377, 66.0, 2 TD 1 INT. (bad throw deep)

Denver (1)-28/45, 304, 62.2, 1 TD 0 INT

Denver (2)-24/34, 303, 70.6, 4 TD, 1 INT (I don't remember this as much, but deep pass attempt to Kelce. )

Jacksonville-22/38, 313, 1 rushing TD, 2 INT (wet game, 1 was deep pass for Hill and other was a meaningless 30-7 slant pass that was actually a good pass but a great play by Bouye)

Cleveland- 23/32, 375, 71.9, 3 TD, 1 INT (hail marry at end of the half...Hill stopped route for some reason)

Chargers (1) 15/27, 256, 4 TD 0 INT

Chargers (2) 24/34, 243, 70.6, 2 TD 0 INT

 

Brees

Baltimore-22/30, 212, 73.3, 2 TD 0 INT

Cleveland-28/35, 243, 80.0, 2 TD 0 INT

Dallas- 18/28, 127, 64.3, 1 TD 1 INT

MIN-18/23, 120, 1 TD 1 INT

 

Ok.. what is Chiefs record vs winning teams. I am just trying to establish a break in your logic that changes to push a narrative. 

I want to know if you count KC wins vs LAC and Pit as wins vs winning teams or not?

[evilpimp972]

3 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

Ok.. what is Chiefs record vs winning teams. I am just trying to establish a break in your logic that changes to push a narrative. 

I want to know if you count KC wins vs LAC and Pit as wins vs winning teams or not?

You act like the Chiefs are not the number one team in the afc.

And you act like Mahomes is the only player on the roster.

This is terrible

[jaa1025]

15 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

Ok.. what is Chiefs record vs winning teams. I am just trying to establish a break in your logic that changes to push a narrative. 

I want to know if you count KC wins vs LAC and Pit as wins vs winning teams or not?

Why? The Chiefs have 4 losses. He had 4th quarter drives in 3 of those games to either tie the game, take the lead or extend the lead. This past Sunday against the Seahawks, he played well enough to win but his defense couldn't get a stop or force a FG. 

The Chiefs 4 losses include

@ LA RAMS Mahomes is the reason they were in the game. Game leading drive with less than 3 minutes left to go up by 4. Unfortunately, the Chiefs defense is the Chiefs defense. Mahomes got 2 more shots but his arm was hit on one INT and he had a hail marry INT to end the game.

@ NE Patriots Mahomes was off early and threw his 2 costly interceptions of the season. Had the best 2nd half that you will ever see a QB have in the 2nd half and got them back in the game in the 4th. Patriots were smart not to give the ball back. 

@ Seattle Seahawks Outplayed. Tried to establish the run for some reason early and looked flat. Defense couldn't stop them in the 2nd half.

LA Chargers (up by 14, with 5 minutes left. Coached soft, played soft and took some horrible officiating to make it possible) 

 

 

[showtime]

With 184 yards passing and 2 TD's, Patrick Mahomes will hit 5,000 passing yards and 50 TD's for the season.  The Chiefs are playing against a bad team at home, so I'm going to assume they win that game.This means the Chiefs have been the #1 seed in their conference since the very start of the season and have never let it go.  The fact that this is even a discussion is laughable.

[Bearerofnews]

1 hour ago, jaa1025 said:

Why? The Chiefs have 4 losses. He had 4th quarter drives in 3 of those games to either tie the game, take the lead or extend the lead. This past Sunday against the Seahawks, he played well enough to win but his defense couldn't get a stop or force a FG. 

The Chiefs 4 losses include

@ LA RAMS Mahomes is the reason they were in the game. Game leading drive with less than 3 minutes left to go up by 4. Unfortunately, the Chiefs defense is the Chiefs defense. Mahomes got 2 more shots but his arm was hit on one INT and he had a hail marry INT to end the game.

@ NE Patriots Mahomes was off early and threw his 2 costly interceptions of the season. Had the best 2nd half that you will ever see a QB have in the 2nd half and got them back in the game in the 4th. Patriots were smart not to give the ball back. 

@ Seattle Seahawks Outplayed. Tried to establish the run for some reason early and looked flat. Defense couldn't stop them in the 2nd half.

LA Chargers (up by 14, with 5 minutes left. Coached soft, played soft and took some horrible officiating to make it possible) 

 

 

Why wont you answer the question. How many wins does KC have vs teams with winning records?

Also, the LAC game, lets not act like KC didnt get the lead thanks to officiating. Also, Mahomes had a chance to pick up a 1st down to put the game away.

His bad play in the 1st half vs NE had him playing catchup the 2nd half. Even if they did take the lead. His early play put them in a hole. 

His turnovers cost them the Rams' game and points. 5 turnovers by the QB is not a good performance no matter how you spin it.

Should of lost the Balt game with that fumble, was fortunate his team mate recovered.

Seattle game he missed some big easy throws that could of change the tone of that game. He's done that alot this year. Had guys wide open for some big chunk plays and overthrown them.

Agg% which measures tight window throws is the most telling and accurate metric out there.  I dont see Mahones throwing guys open at a high percentage. I see the scheme KC running have guys wide open with their route concepts. I wouldn't even put him in the top 6 of current qbs of "throwing guys open". Which to begin with is a hard trait to measure objectively with metrics. Same goes for "seeing the field" like you implied. That is more over the top homerisim. You literally said he has the best field vision of any qb ever.  Which just isnt even close to being true.  He does have great vision when rolling out of the pocket and he is very aware of his close proximity surrounding and uses that additional space to calmly scan the field and make body throws. In the pocket, i would say his vision is lacking still. As he has missed easy reads, which results in him holding the ball and rolling out of the pocket more than is necessary.  I get KC have never had their own legit QB since probably Dawson, so seeing Mahomes who has taken the league by storm has them excited. But lets pull back on some of the hyperbole and exaggerated superlatives. 

We seen alot of young QBs come out and set the league on fire in their first year only the faze out. Sure, not at the level he has. But they also did it with less offensive talent than what Mahomes has with KC and a much lesser system and coach.

Like i said im onboard with MVP if he gets #1 seed and becomes a 5k for 50 guy. But lets pull back the chains on crowning someone after 1 season. 

 

 

[stl4life07]

I agree that Mahomes is the MVP...BUT...in his 4 biggest games of the season (Pats, Rams, Chargers, and Seahawks), he is (0-4). Those games were stand alone games where the nation was watching only that game on tv. People do put big emphasis on primetime games like that. I think he wins just because I cant strongly make a case for nobody else unless Donald ties or break the sack record which will require at least 3 sacks against the Niners. He already did it before against the Niners so if he can do it again then he I can make a strong case for MVP over Mahomes just because at least 23.5 sacks from a DT on a defense where you know that if a play is going to be made its going to be made by him especially when the Rams have to have one. 

[jaa1025]

3 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

I agree that Mahomes is the MVP...BUT...in his 4 biggest games of the season (Pats, Rams, Chargers, and Seahawks), he is (0-4). Those games were stand alone games where the nation was watching only that game on tv. People do put big emphasis on primetime games like that. I think he wins just because I cant strongly make a case for nobody else unless Donald ties or break the sack record which will require at least 3 sacks against the Niners. He already did it before against the Niners so if he can do it again then he I can make a strong case for MVP over Mahomes just because at least 23.5 sacks from a DT on a defense where you know that if a play is going to be made its going to be made by him especially when the Rams have to have one. 

Brandon Kiley@BKSportsTalk

 

 

This is a strange narrative that’s developed. I’m confused by it.

Mahomes’ biggest games of the season: @ LAC, @ PIT, @ DEN (prime time), @ NE, @ LAR, BAL, LAC & @ SEA.

His numbers in those games: 204/309 (66%), 2609 yards (326 YPG, 8.4 YPA), 28 TD, 6 INT, 114 QB RTG.

[jaa1025]

Brandon Kiley@BKSportsTalk

 · 20h

 

The list of QBs since the merger to average >8.7 ANY/A (min. 200 attempts):

Peyton Manning (‘04, ‘13 - both times MVP)
Aaron Rodgers (‘11 - MVP)
Matt Ryan (‘16 - MVP)
Dan Marino (‘84 - MVP)
Tom Brady (‘07 - MVP, ‘16, Ryan MVP)
Nick Foles (‘13, Manning MVP)
Patrick Mahomes (‘18)

Brandon Kiley@BKSportsTalk

 

In other words, if Mahomes doesn’t win MVP this year, it’ll be the first time since the merger a QB who threw for >8.7 ANY/A lost the award to a player who failed to meet the same criteria.

I honestly don’t understand why this is still a point of contention. Mahomes is the MVP.

[Centurion]

2 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

Ok.. what is Chiefs record vs winning teams.

To answer the question

W1 @ LAC (11-4), W2 @ PIT (8-6-1), W14 vs BAL (9-6)

And for kicks, Brees: W7 @ BAL (9-6), W8 @ MIN (8-6-1), W9 vs LAR (12-3), W16 vs PIT (8-6-1). With a 5th one W11 vs PHI (8-7) that could be invalidated Sunday.

[Habbsawce]

If Mahomes had the Saints defense they would be 14-1. KC's defense is beyond bad and the only reason they've lost any games. They're really bad.

[Centurion]

Chiefs are 12 points from being the highest scoring team in NFL history that didn't have Randy Moss. They have scored at least 26 in every game.The Saints are tied for 8th in scoring defense. The Chiefs are 29th. Yet the Chiefs have not lost to a team with a losing record, but the Saints have.

Mahomes is MVP

[Jlowe22]

4 minutes ago, Centurion said:

Chiefs are 12 points from being the highest scoring team in NFL history that didn't have Randy Moss. They have scored at least 26 in every game.The Saints are tied for 8th in scoring defense. The Chiefs are 29th. Yet the Chiefs have not lost to a team with a losing record, but the Saints have.

Mahomes is MVP

Yes, Mahomes is the MVP, but the Saints defense that lost to the Bucs was not a top ten defense.  The Saints defense started the year playing terrible, and got completely torched against the Bucs week 1 and the Falcons week 3.  They played decently against the Browns, but this wasn't the Baker Mayfield Browns, it was the Tyrod Taylor Browns.  The defense didn't start really playing well until week 4, and they didn't start going on their incredible run until after the Rams game.

[AK41]

Narratives always change when Brees is up for MVP..

 

Y’all are gonna be pissed off when Drew wins his rightfully deserved long overdue MVP award.. and I’m looking forward to it