Random Ravens Thoughts: New Forum Edition

[diamondbull424]

5 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

Someone posted this gif of Danny Woodhead blocking, but the thing that caught my eye was a complete summary of Joe Flacco as a QB:

Joe goes to his first read, which isn't there. Instead of resetting himself, he panics (in a completely clean pocket) and throws off his back foot to his check down.

 

Yeah, I’m not seeing it. That’s not a clean pocket. How often does Woodhead or any other RB dominate a linebacker like that?For all Flacco knows, the linebacker knocks into Woodhead and barrels him back into Flacco. Which is the most common scenario you see with a RB blocking a blitzing linebacker. 

Meaning he CANT step into the pocket... you know because he has a blitzing linebacker. In that scenario you’re trained to get the ball out quick. I seem to remember a few plays where Flacco held onto the ball his rookie season on similar plays where Ray Rice didn’t hold the block and it led to sacks and strip sacks.

Plus there’s still the DT back there. If Flacco resets his feet, he has nothing more than a split second before that other defender rushes up field for him.

There’s a split second to make a decision there. What’s more the RT is loosing ground by the moment. You can’t rely on him to hold his block.

Lastly, the first read and second read were right next to each other. It looked like the TE was the first read, the WR was the second read (or vice versa) and then there was the checkdown.

Edit: Whats more it was zone coverage. The only other option there would be to target Watson there and we can’t see the positioning of the defender there to know if it would be a smart pass to make.

Edited February 27, 2018 by diamondbull424

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Yeah, I’m not seeing it. That’s not a clean pocket. How often does Woodhead or any other RB dominate a linebacker like that?For all Flacco knows, the linebacker knocks into Woodhead and barrels him back into Flacco. Which is the most common scenario you see with a RB blocking a blitzing linebacker. 

You realize that Flacco panics like a full 2 seconds after Woodhead has cleared that LB out, right? He's not anticipating Woodhead getting beat.

Meaning he CANT step into the pocket... you know because he has a blitzing linebacker. In that scenario you’re trained to get the ball out quick. I seem to remember a few plays where Flacco held onto the ball his rookie season on similar plays where Ray Rice didn’t hold the block and it led to sacks and strip sacks.

Video evidence says otherwise, unless Flacco made up his mind pre-snap that if Woodhead has to pick up anyone he's gonna panic and check it down. Which is equally as bad.

Plus there’s still the DT back there. If Flacco resets his feet, he has nothing more than a split second before that other defender rushes up field for him.

There’s a split second to make a decision there. What’s more the RT is loosing ground by the moment. You can’t rely on him to hold his block.

Lastly, the first read and second read were right next to each other. It looked like the TE was the first read, the WR was the second read (or vice versa) and then there was the checkdown.

Edit: Whats more it was zone coverage. The only other option there would be to target Watson there and we can’t see the positioning of the defender there to know if it would be a smart pass to make.

 

[diamondbull424]

@Darth Pees

I think we have two different definitions of a clean pocket. Getting pressure up front I don’t view as clean. When your eyes are down field, you can’t really SEE what’s going on in front of you (or else you take your eyes from down field).

Flacco likely sees action in front of him out of his periphery and then determines that he likely only has “x” amount of time to get the ball out.

When he moves to his check down he now has the ability survey the threat with clearer vision, but by the time he does that it’s already too late. He instinctively was in motion to throw it to his checkdown option in the event the threat was close. If he goes back to surveying downfield he now holds onto the ball longer than you want, thus he chooses to simply get the ball out.

Tom Brady does the same thing with pressure up front. It speeds up the eternal clock.

Some quarterbacks aren’t as phased by pressure up the middle, Manning and Aaron Rodgers being good examples of that. But how many quarterbacks are on that level?

I’m not arguing that Flacco is elite and has great pocket presence. He doesn’t, that’s always been a struggle for him. I’m just arguing that I wouldn’t call that a clean pocket.

[Danand]

Don't think we disagree that much on Flacco in general, although I am more positive about him than others. That is just a bad example if you want to try and knock him as a QB.

If he holds the ball 1 second longer, the pocket might collapse and he can't reset his feet and then has to scramble and there is a greater chance of the play breaking completely down.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

That play just embodies what we (I?) saw from Flacco this year, and the past few years. One read (you can't really tell me he went through two reads there) and then check down. Poor footwork, throwing off his back foot, not trusting the pocket, etc.

Also, I don't know what kind of zone coverage has guys crossing the field, but that is 100% man coverage with either the LB in a spy, or he was assigned to Woodhead and since Woodhead blocked he just chipped whoever crosses the middle. Either way, it ain't zone.

[diamondbull424]

53 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

That play just embodies what we (I?) saw from Flacco this year, and the past few years. One read (you can't really tell me he went through two reads there) and then check down. Poor footwork, throwing off his back foot, not trusting the pocket, etc.

Also, I don't know what kind of zone coverage has guys crossing the field, but that is 100% man coverage with either the LB in a spy, or he was assigned to Woodhead and since Woodhead blocked he just chipped whoever crosses the middle. Either way, it ain't zone.

You’re right. It’s man coverage there. Either way, two of his reads are in the same spot.

You equally can’t tell me that he’s only going through one read.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

You’re right. It’s man coverage there. Either way, two of his reads are in the same spot.

You equally can’t tell me that he’s only going through one read.

Flacco attempts to throw the ball to the short WR but he's blanketed, then immediately goes to his check down. By the time Watson leaves the screen and maybe is making a cut towards a Corner route, Flacco's already looking at his check down.

[Danand]

8 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

Flacco attempts to throw the ball to the short WR but he's blanketed, then immediately goes to his check down. By the time Watson leaves the screen and maybe is making a cut towards a Corner route, Flacco's already looking at his check down.

Had this been Brady, it was an example of a good play where he takes what the defense gives you.

Whatever fits your narrative.

[Mancunian Raven]

I don't really care how Joe played for most of last season. He was clearly hurt for at least the first ten weeks, still recovering from his back injury, and not completely comfortable with the knee brace. Yes, he has bad habits that have gone unchecked, but that's what the new QB coach has been brought in (long overdue) to address. We've seen how well Joe can play, and I'd prefer to believe he'll get back to that level, with the right coaching and offensive support.

He's never going to be Tom Brady, or Aaron Rodgers, and we shouldn't expect him to be. But he is a guy who can take bad WRs and make them borderline serviceable, as long as he has a clean pocket. So make sure the O-line is right, and get him someone who is better than Perriman, Maclin, Moore and Wallace. It's not that complicated.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

40 minutes ago, Danand said:

Had this been Brady, it was an example of a good play where he takes what the defense gives you.

Whatever fits your narrative.

Had this been Brady, and he consistently puts up 40 TD, <10 INT seasons and wins Superbowls, yeah I might agree with you...but it's not...it's Joe Flacco, a statically bottom-5 QB in the league with lots of mechanical and footwork issues. One gif summarizes most of Flacco's issues this past season and the past few seasons (one read > checkdown, bad footwork, not trusting the pocket).

[EastsideEZ]

Breshad Perriman for Eli Apple... 

[EastsideEZ]

Mohammed Wilkerson would be ridiculous for us at 5Tech... 

[Danand]

8 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

Had this been Brady, and he consistently puts up 40 TD, <10 INT seasons and wins Superbowls, yeah I might agree with you...but it's not...it's Joe Flacco, a statically bottom-5 QB in the league with lots of mechanical and footwork issues. One gif summarizes most of Flacco's issues this past season and the past few seasons (one read > checkdown, bad footwork, not trusting the pocket).

Fortunately statistics and actual play is two very different things. You would know that if you watched games, not stat sheets and listened to Mike Lombardi

[EastsideEZ]

9 hours ago, Danand said:

Fortunately statistics and actual play is two very different things. You would know that if you watched games, not stat sheets and listened to Mike Lombardi

Flacco is a play to play type of quarterback... meaning u never know what ur gonna get play to play... he is like the rhythm shooter in the NBA once he gets going he can look like he is amazing but if he isn’t into it he looks trash... sorta like JR Smith or Nick Young... problem is we’re paying and depending on him to be James Harden or Russell Westbrook instead of the role player he is

Edited March 1, 2018 by EastsideEZ

[Danand]

47 minutes ago, EastsideEZ said:

Flacco is a play to play type of quarterback... meaning u never know what ur gonna get play to play... he is like the rhythm shooter in the NBA once he gets going he can look like he is amazing but if he isn’t into it he looks trash... sorta like JR Smith or Nick Young... problem is we’re paying and depending on him to be James Harden or Russell Westbrook instead of the role player he is

With all the quarterbacks in the league, one of them who have received the least help is Flacco. In better surroundings, his play elevates. Last year it came together when the oline played better, and he performed with a supporting cast belonging in the bottom of the league.

We might knever know Flaccos ceiling, because he has been so up and down - some of the reason is because of the players around him.

Matt Ryan was once considered to be replaced, because he just couldn't get it done, and suddenly the Falcons invested heavily in WR's, oline, OC and he became the player he is today. We could wonder what would have happened, if the same thing was done with Flacco - especially when Kubiak was OC.