Aaron Rodgers Doesn't Care About Running Backs (Targeting them in passing game)

[flyers0909]

@Outpost31 Even if you remove his 49ers season as OC, he still only averaged 77 receptions as an OC.  Still a massive drop from his time as QB coach. 

[MacReady]

2 hours ago, Pugger said:

Is it McCarthy who doesn't involve his RBs in the running game as much as he does the receivers or Rodgers?  It appears from your info here that it is McCarthy who over the years who has his QBs throw to the WRs/TEs more.

I just showed McCarthy's entire history of using running backs in the passing game at an extremely higher rate than Rodgers ever has with every other QB he has ever coached as a point against it being McCarthy and you ask me if it's not McCarthy?

The single outlier in which McCarthy's quarterbacks didn't target their running backs more was when he was an offensive coordinator for the 49ers.  40 of the 62 receptions to running backs were in games in which the Niners lost by two scores or more, clearly indicating they stopped when they HAD to get larger chunks of yardage. 

The entire point of this thread is to show that it's not McCarthy, and all the information within is proof that it's not McCarthy, and the proof will continue coming in as I add to it. 

I don't know where you get the idea that McCarthy throws to his WR/TE more elsewhere with all the information I've just provided. 

Take 2006 for example.  Ahman Green was second on the team in targets, behind only Driver.  Jennings was third in targets, Noah Herron was fourth in targets.  In 2005, Kevin Barlow and Frank Gore were 3rd and 5th in targets. 

No.  It's not McCarthy. 

[MacReady]

Just now, flyers0909 said:

@Outpost31 Even if you remove his 49ers season as OC, he still only averaged 77 receptions as an OC.  Still a massive drop from his time as QB coach. 

And a 77 average as OC is significantly higher than any time with Rodgers.  I'm working on the proof of that now by comparing Rodgers to his contemporaries. 

I really hate that I posted this early, and I didn't mean to.  I tried refreshing the page and somehow it posted. 

2000 - Ricky Williams second on team in targets.  Chad Morton was 4th. 
2001 - Ricky Williams third on team in targets.  McCallister 5th. 
2002 - Deuce McAllister second on team in targets. 
2003 - McCallister second on team in targets.
2004 - McAllister third on team in targets. 

There's more proof that, although receptions might be down, running backs were clearly targeted in McCarthy's time as OC. 

[flyers0909]

9 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

And a 77 average as OC is significantly higher than any time with Rodgers.  I'm working on the proof of that now by comparing Rodgers to his contemporaries. 

I really hate that I posted this early, and I didn't mean to.  I tried refreshing the page and somehow it posted. 

2000 - Ricky Williams second on team in targets.  Chad Morton was 4th. 
2001 - Ricky Williams third on team in targets.  McCallister 5th. 
2002 - Deuce McAllister second on team in targets. 
2003 - McCallister second on team in targets.
2004 - McAllister third on team in targets. 

There's more proof that, although receptions might be down, running backs were clearly targeted in McCarthy's time as OC. 

My real point was that when he was a QB coach in KC, the Chiefs already passed a ton to the RBs and that trend continued as McCarthy came in (same thing happened in GB).  As an OC, while still higher than with Rodgers, the reception totals dropped off by a good margin than his time as a QB coach.  I just think the impact that Mac had in his time in KC is a bit overstated here.  

I kind of also think the weapons on the team is really important too.  Those Saints teams you posted really didn't have any WR/TE threats outside of Joe Horn.  When has Rodgers had a roster where the 2nd/3rd best pass catching option was a RB/FB?

[MacReady]

Just now, flyers0909 said:

When has Rodgers had a roster where the 2nd/3rd best pass catching option was a RB/FB?

2016.  Montgomery converted from WR to RB.  How much better can you get?
2015.  Literally everybody hurt at WR. 
2014.  Eddie Lacy had one of the best seasons ever for a receiving RB, averaging 10.2 yards per catch and being an absolute effing nightmare in the receiving game.
Brandon Jackson was drafted to be a receiving RB. 

[pacman5252]

Look at our RBs during the Rodgers era and look at our Wrs

RB

Eddie Lacy- better than average 2 years before he got fat

Ryan Grant- a north south runner who was stiff in space

crickets

WR

Jordy- pro bowler

Jennings- pro bowler

D Adams- likely future pro bowler

Driver - end of the line but still high level

J Jones- good

 

 

[flyers0909]

4 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

2016.  Montgomery converted from WR to RB.  How much better can you get?
2015.  Literally everybody hurt at WR. 
2014.  Eddie Lacy had one of the best seasons ever for a receiving RB, averaging 10.2 yards per catch and being an absolute effing nightmare in the receiving game.
Brandon Jackson was drafted to be a receiving RB. 

2016: Monty 4th on the team in targets after Jordy, Davante, and Cobb.  Regardless if he's a converted WR he's still the 4th option at best. 
2015: Starks and Lacy 5th and 6th in targets after Cobb, Adams, Jones, Rodgers (ew).
2014: Brandon Jackson?  Not sure who you mean here.  Lacy was still 3rd on the team in receptions. 

[MacReady]

Just now, flyers0909 said:

2016: Monty 4th on the team in targets after Jordy, Davante, and Cobb.  Regardless if he's a converted WR he's still the 4th option at best. 
2015: Starks and Lacy 5th and 6th in targets after Cobb, Adams, Jones, Rodgers (ew).
2014: Brandon Jackson?  Not sure who you mean here.  Lacy was still 3rd on the team in receptions. 

You had asked how many times we had legit RB receiving options.  The way I answered it looked weird.  Basically,

Montgomery, Lacy and Jackson were all very legitimate receiving options at RB.

The fact that Lacy and Starks were 5th and 6th and Rodgers chose Richard Rodgers over those two is all the evidence I need.  A dissertation could be written on how Rodgers threw to Dickrod more often than Starks or Lacy. 

[MacReady]

Just now, pacman5252 said:

Eddie Lacy- better than average 2 years before he got fat

Ryan Grant- a north south runner who was stiff in space

Lol.  Eddie Lacy was an elite receiving back in 2014.  Alvin Kamara is averaging 9.6 yards per reception in his career.  Lacy averaged 10.2 in 2014.  He was elite as a receiving back.

You also neglect a WR converted to RB.  In what world do you neglect that and add only Lacy and Grant? 

You mention Grant and neglect the fact that we had drafted Brandon Jackson as the receiving back. 

Jackson was averaging 8.9 yards per reception in 2009.  He had only 21 receptions.  8 yards per reception in 2010.

This notion that we've never had talented receiving backs is false. 

Rodgers has had some damn good ones. 

James Starks was no slouch either.  In 2015, he averaged 9.1 yards per reception.  That's really damn good for a running back.  What were Aaron's receiving options that year?  Oh... Yeah... James Jones, Davante Adams when he was bad, Randall Cobb and Dickrod. 

And it's moot anyway.  Tom Brady has had Gronkowski, Moss, Welker, Edleman, Cooks and some damn elite receiving options and he has never targeted running backs less than 90 times a year. 

[flyers0909]

Just now, Outpost31 said:

You had asked how many times we had legit RB receiving options.  The way I answered it looked weird.  Basically,

Montgomery, Lacy and Jackson were all very legitimate receiving options at RB.

The fact that Lacy and Starks were 5th and 6th and Rodgers chose Richard Rodgers over those two is all the evidence I need.  A dissertation could be written on how Rodgers threw to Dickrod more often than Starks or Lacy. 

Totally fair on being legit targets in the passing game, I'm just not sure why it's an issue if the 4th best pass catching options gets the 4th most targets.  2015 I agree was weird with all the injuries, but if you go through the years it lines up pretty well with talent getting targets, regardless of position.  

I completely agree that there's times that Rodgers passes up an open RB, which is super frustrating, but if you look at the rosters over the years I just don't really see where you'd want Rodgers passing up our WRs/Finley for the RBs we had. 

[MacReady]

Just now, flyers0909 said:

but if you go through the years it lines up pretty well with talent getting targets, regardless of position. 

Simply because running backs are down and distance makers.  You throw to them regularly, and you're regularly keeping up with the down and distance to gain instead of falling behind. 

It's not about talent, it's about how targeting running backs opens everything else up.  You think Tom Brady consistently threw to Rex Burkhead last year because he was a good receiving option?  Over Cooks and Gronkowski? 

It is a huge element to the offense that Green Bay is woefully behind every other team in. 

Just look at this year. 

Adams - 94 targets
Graham - 56 targets
Cobb - 38 targets
MVS - 39 targets
Allison - 30 targets
Montgomery - 23 targets
Jones - 17 targets

What's even more upsetting is that Montgomery was averaging 11.3 yards per reception.  Why wasn't he getting 7 targets a game? 

Look at last week.  Jones dropped the ball on the opening pass, but there was nobody near him. 

I think sometimes defenses don't even cover our running backs.  I'm really not imagining this.  It is significant.  It's something that is seriously lacking from our offense, has been ever since Rodgers took over, and it is one way to easily fix our problems on offense.

 

[MacReady]

8 hours ago, Lodestar said:

Peyton Manning didn't throw to his backs all that often either. One year in Indy he completed 450 passes and only like 50 went to RBs.

106
82
87
73
80
71
60
50
50
48
59
63
93
33 (2012)
74
44
36

These are Peyton Manning's targets to running backs his entire career.  I lied.  These are targets to only his most-targeted RB. 

2012 he had Tamme lining up in the backfield a lot.  Tamme had 85 targets.  Dreesen did the same thing and had 58 targets.  McGahee was his most-often targeted pure RB.  He had 33 targets.  Moreno had 26.  Hillman had 12.  Ball had 12.  So even if you take out Tamme and Dreesen, who lined up as RBs frequently in 2012, Manning targeted running backs 83 targets that year. 

98 targets to running backs in 2014.
95 targets to running backs in 2015.

Yes, Manning absolutely did target running backs. 

[Lodestar]

3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

106
82
87
73
80
71
60
50
50
48
59
63
93
33 (2012)
74
44
36

These are Peyton Manning's targets to running backs his entire career.  I lied.  These are targets to only his most-targeted RB. 

If you want to call Marcus Pollard and Jacob Tamme RBs... I guess that's your right.

[Gopackgonerd]

13 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Simply because running backs are down and distance makers.  You throw to them regularly, and you're regularly keeping up with the down and distance to gain instead of falling behind. 

It's not about talent, it's about how targeting running backs opens everything else up.  You think Tom Brady consistently threw to Rex Burkhead last year because he was a good receiving option?  Over Cooks and Gronkowski? 

It is a huge element to the offense that Green Bay is woefully behind every other team in. 

Just look at this year. 

Adams - 94 targets
Graham - 56 targets
Cobb - 38 targets
MVS - 39 targets
Allison - 30 targets
Montgomery - 23 targets
Jones - 17 targets

What's even more upsetting is that Montgomery was averaging 11.3 yards per reception.  Why wasn't he getting 7 targets a game? 

Look at last week.  Jones dropped the ball on the opening pass, but there was nobody near him. 

I think sometimes defenses don't even cover our running backs.  I'm really not imagining this.  It is significant.  It's something that is seriously lacking from our offense, has been ever since Rodgers took over, and it is one way to easily fix our problems on offense.

 

Isn't that more of a personell decision with the Ty thing? I mean they were rotating 3 backs until Ty was cut. Hard to get more targets to him when they had that rotation going.

[Arthur Penske]