Lodestar Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 37 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: What? No. That's not even what I did. God, I can't believe you're going to make me do this again. Oh, don't be so indignant. In 2001 (73) and 2010 (93) in your original post, you were clearly referring to Pollard and Tamme, respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 Just now, Lodestar said: Oh, don't be so indignant. In 2001 (73) and 2010 (93) in your original post, you were clearly referring to Pollard and Tamme, respectively. That was a mistake. I saw RB. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2001/receiving.htm Even still, in 2001, Rhodes had 55 targets, James had 29, Pollard did, in fact, split his time in the backfield. In 2010, Brown had 28 targets, Addai had 26 and Tamme did, in fact, split his time in the backfield. Thus disproving your statement that Manning never really targeted his running backs. He did. At a very high rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: You don't... When throwing elsewhere is working. It's not working elsewhere now. Rodgers isn't throwing to backs to make it start working. It wasn't working in 2015. Why in the fruck didn't Rodgers throw more to backs in 2015 when literally nothing was open downfield? You're right. You don't need to throw to backs when your offense is working. It's not working. Throwing to backs is the quickest way to give a struggling offense rhythm. Even bonehead announcers know this. Your offense isn't working, complete easy passes, get into a rhythm, let other things open up while defenses come down to protect short. Except the passes are open down field, and Rodgers is a hair off. Last week alone he had a nice chunk gain to EQ he missed and one to Davante, as well as Davante's 3rd TD on a post he missed. The offense needs more Graham and it needs Rodgers to be on target. Sure hypothetically throwing to the backs could help something but it's surely not the root cause of our issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheNorth Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Targets to Running Backs by Team 2018 I quit once I knew whether or not a team was over or under the Packers in attempts Packers are 24th in the league in attempts to running backs. Patriots - 89 targets to White alone Chargers - over 88 targets Lions - over 83 targets to running backs Giants - 76 targets to Barkley alone Saints - 71 targets to Kamara alone. Cardinals - 62 targets to running backs Falcons - 60 targets to running backs Ravens - Over 64 targets to running backs Raiders - over 73 targets Bills - 71 or higher targets to RB Colts - over 70 targets Jaguars - over 68 targets Bears - Over 65 Panthers 63 targets to McCaffrey alone Bengals - 62 total RB targets Cowboys - 62 targets to running backs Jets - over 62 Redskins - Over 64 Broncos - 64 total targets to running backs Dolphins - over 61 targets Chiefs - over 60 targets Rams - Over 60 targets 49ers - over 61 targets Steelers - 60 targets Packers - 59 total targets to running backs. Vikings - under 59 Eagles - Under 59 Browns - Under 59 Texans - Under 59 Seahawks - Under 59 Buccaneers - Under 59 Titans - Under 59 I know the list isn't 100% complete, but I see a lot of underperforming offenses near the top. To me, that shows the Packers are not guaranteed any offensive improvement by targeting RBs more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: Except the passes are open down field, and Rodgers is a hair off. Last week alone he had a nice chunk gain to EQ he missed and one to Davante, as well as Davante's 3rd TD on a post he missed. The offense needs more Graham and it needs Rodgers to be on target. Sure hypothetically throwing to the backs could help something but it's surely not the root cause of our issues. If Rodgers is a hair off when throwing downfield, we should be taking issue with him insisting on forcing it rather than what he knows he can do it. Throwing to the backs isn't the root issue, but it is very much a symptom of what is a significant issue, that being "Aaron passing up sure completions to gun for the big play". That throw to Adams for what would have been his 3rd TD, Graham was open for the first down. Rodgers starred down Graham until the safety came down onto Graham and then threw it to Adams in the endzone after the safety moved out of the way into Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 In the context of this year the top 10 teams in receptions are a combined 45-56. You know who isn't on the list the Rams/Chiefs, they have QBs who can do push the ball down field and also the two most explosive offenses. Patriots:7-3Chargers: 8-2Lions: 3-6Giants: 2-7Saints: 8-1Cardinals: 2-7Falcons: 4-5Ravens: 4-5Raiders: 1-8Bills: 3-7Colts: 4-5 Instead of cherry picking receptions by RBs lets look at in the actual context of the offense. Who are you taking away targets from to force the ball to RBs? Outside of Lacy which RB are you giving the ball to in order to get to some RB reception number you think is acceptable? This offense has been elite outside of 2015 when it lost it's #1 WR and we had a rookie play caller for most of the year. Let's take Gronk/Edelman & McDaniels off the Patriots and see what Brady does (hint. not very good). The Saints/Patriots offenses are built around their RBs, our offense is built around our WRs. Is it the QB or the scheme? 2008 Packers 2009 Packers 2010 Packers (26.18 PPG) (351.1 YPG) (28.8 PPG)(379.1 YPG) (24.3 PPG)(358.3 YPG) Top 5 WR/TEs: Top 3 HB/FBs: Top 5 WR/TEs: Top 3 HB/FBs: Top 5 WR/TEs: Top 3 HB/FBs: Jennings - 140 (26.7%) Jackson - 39 Jennings - 119 (21.7%) Grant - 30 Jennings - 125 (24%) Jackson - 50 Driver - 116 Grant - 22 Driver - 113 Jackson - 26 Jones - 87 Kuhn - 18 Nelson - 54 Kuhn - 7 Finley - 72 Kuhn - 7 Driver - 85 Starks - 4 Lee - 50 Jones - 62 Jordy - 64 Jones - 30 Lee - 54 Quarless - 33 WR/TE = 84.6% of targets WR/TE = 82.1% of targets WR/TE = 84.7% of targets 2011 Packers 2012 Packers 2013 Packers (35 PPG)(405.1 YPG) (27.1 PPG)(359.4 YPG) (26.1 PPG)(400.3 YPG) Top 5 WR/TEs : Top 3 HB/FBs : Top 5 WR/TEs : Top 3 HB/FBs : Top 5 WR/TEs : Top 3 HB/FBs : Jennings - 101 (18.8%) Starks - 37 Cobb - 104 (19.1%) Alex Green - 30 Nelson - 127 (22.9%) Lacy - 44 Jordy - 96 Grant - 24 Jones - 98 Kuhn - 18 Jones - 93 Kuhn - 19 Finley - 92 Kuhn - 18 Finley - 87 Benson 15 Boykin - 83 Starks - 13 Driver - 56 Nelson - 73 Quarless - 53 Jones - 55 Jennings - 62 Cobb - 47 WR/TE = 82.7% of targets WR/TE = 86.4% of targets WR/TE = 85.4% of targets 2014 Packers 2015 Packers 2016 Packers (30.4 PPG)(386.1 YPG) (23 PPG)(334.6 YPG) (27 PPG)(368.8 YPG) Top 5 WR/TEs : Top 3 HB/FBs: Top 5 WR/TEs : Top 3 HB/FBs i: Top 5 WR/TEs : Top 3 HB/FBs: Nelson - 151 (25.2%) Lacy - 55 Cobb - 129 (22.8%) Starks - 53 Nelson - 152 (25.2%) Montgomery - 56 Targets Adams - 121 Starks - 29 Jones - 99 Lacy - 28 Adams - 121 Starks - 25 Targets Cobb - 84 Kuhn - 4 Adams - 94 Kuhn - 10 Cobb - 84 Ripkowski - 9 Targets Cook - 51 Rodgers - 85 Cook - 51 Rodgers - 47 Montgomery - 19 Rodgers - 47 Targets WR/TE = 83.1% of targets WR/TE = 83.5% of targets WR/TE = 83.1% of targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACKRULE Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 43 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Arthur brought up screen passes. I said a screen pass is not synonymous with a pass to a RB. You asked, "How does a screen not equal a pass to a RB?" Are you following? Oh ok well screen passes are often to rbs. I took it that way. A pass to a RB is a pass to a RB. We done throw those either was my point. We used to more with lacy. We threw one rob screen last week. That’s not on AR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 Just now, TheBitzMan said: In the context of this year the top 10 teams in receptions are a combined 45-56. You know who isn't on the list the Rams/Chiefs, they have QBs who can do push the ball down field and also the two most explosive offenses. Patriots:7-3Chargers: 8-2Lions: 3-6Giants: 2-7Saints: 8-1Cardinals: 2-7Falcons: 4-5Ravens: 4-5Raiders: 1-8Bills: 3-7Colts: 4-5 The Rams and Chiefs also have Cooks, Woods, Kelce, Hill, Watkins... They don't have to throw to running backs. The Patriots really are the perfect example of what I'm referring to. Passes to backs serving as a running game/way to open passes downfield. If you can't generate passes downfield with the talent you have at WR, you have to make defenders defend short to open up deep. This really doesn't confirm or deny what I'm saying. I knew this about Rodgers since 2012. I didn't have a problem with it in 2012, I didn't have a problem with it in 2013, 2014. 2015 is when it became a problem. Jones/Jennings/Driver/Finley all left/aged and we were left without a threat to challenge deep. Rodgers didn't want to accept that. That's a problem. If we had Julio Jones or AJ Green or anybody who could challenge deep, it wouldn't be a problem. We don't have those weapons. Thus, we have to open that up by passing to backs. It's really simple. Make defenders cover all receiving options and they can't double cover two players every play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 Just now, Packerraymond said: Except the passes are open down field, and Rodgers is a hair off. Last week alone he had a nice chunk gain to EQ he missed and one to Davante, as well as Davante's 3rd TD on a post he missed. The offense needs more Graham and it needs Rodgers to be on target. Sure hypothetically throwing to the backs could help something but it's surely not the root cause of our issues. I think it's more significant than you're willing to admit. Imagine defenses actually worried about Rodgers getting the ball to Aaron Jones in space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 32 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: If Rodgers is a hair off when throwing downfield, we should be taking issue with him insisting on forcing it rather than what he knows he can do it. Throwing to the backs isn't the root issue, but it is very much a symptom of what is a significant issue, that being "Aaron passing up sure completions to gun for the big play". That throw to Adams for what would have been his 3rd TD, Graham was open for the first down. Rodgers starred down Graham until the safety came down onto Graham and then threw it to Adams in the endzone after the safety moved out of the way into Graham. If Rodgers dials himself into Rodgers form by throwing those balls, throw away. This team isn't winning it all with dump off Aaron. He needs to be the guy we paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I think it's more significant than you're willing to admit. Imagine defenses actually worried about Rodgers getting the ball to Aaron Jones in space. Well like we have since you started the checkdowns argument years ago, we'll agree to disagree. Aaron needs to hit open guys downfield. If he was forcing passes and committing turnovers, I'd be more on your side. We aren't winning it all if he can't hit that ball to EQ or Adams that he missed Sunday. I've always believed Aaron throws himself into a rhythm, it's just taking much longer this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACKRULE Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: If Rodgers dials himself into Rodgers form by throwing those balls, throw away. This team isn't winning it all with dump off Aaron. He needs to be the guy we paid. A mix is required but even beyond that and this is outside of the thread. Playcalling needs to change too. We have zero threat of a run game at times and show our hand way to often. Heck even an off Rodgers should beat a number of other QB's and why not. Yes AR has issues but if we overcame them by running the ball more and better we'd likely be above 500 this year. We are so very predicable in so many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 what are the yards/target numbers for backs vs WRs/TEs Y/T is a pretty good indicator of in the long run how valuable the passing attempt is to that player/position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 53 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: The Rams and Chiefs also have Cooks, Woods, Kelce, Hill, Watkins... They don't have to throw to running backs. The Patriots really are the perfect example of what I'm referring to. Passes to backs serving as a running game/way to open passes downfield. If you can't generate passes downfield with the talent you have at WR, you have to make defenders defend short to open up deep. This really doesn't confirm or deny what I'm saying. I knew this about Rodgers since 2012. I didn't have a problem with it in 2012, I didn't have a problem with it in 2013, 2014. 2015 is when it became a problem. Jones/Jennings/Driver/Finley all left/aged and we were left without a threat to challenge deep. Rodgers didn't want to accept that. That's a problem. If we had Julio Jones or AJ Green or anybody who could challenge deep, it wouldn't be a problem. We don't have those weapons. Thus, we have to open that up by passing to backs. It's really simple. Make defenders cover all receiving options and they can't double cover two players every play. MVS Arguably Adams can get deep too, at least more than he used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 36 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: If Rodgers dials himself into Rodgers form by throwing those balls, throw away. This team isn't winning it all with dump off Aaron. He needs to be the guy we paid. Difference between dump off Aaron and passing up a 15 yard gain to try for a 25 yard gain. That's just dumb football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.