You Are In Control. Who Replaces McCarthy?

[Mr Bad Example]

19 hours ago, Howler said:

No point in playing it safe, if we're going to be mired in mediocrity. McCarthy should have been fired years ago, but was constantly given 'injury' excuses. 

Um, McCarthy almost (woulda/shoulda, if not for a ridiculous amount of bad decisions/poor player execution/bad bounces going against GB, only some of which can be pinned on MM) won the NFC in 2014, and had GB in the NFCCG again in 2016. It isn't as if GB has been wildly unsuccessful under him. 

That said, I wouldn't weep if Murphy decided to move on from McCarthy, but let's be fair here. 

[Mr Bad Example]

19 hours ago, CWood21 said:

The problem for Lincoln is that the Packers' gig is only as attractive as long as Aaron Rodgers continues to play at a high level.  Aaron turns 35 in less than a month, and even if he plays at a high level for another 5/6 years, that's a relatively short span.  At Oklahoma, he's probably got at least that much leash if not more and he's going to consistently be a 10+ win team at Oklahoma.  There's risk for both sides.  I just don't see Lincoln leaving unless a team (i.e. Dallas) backs up a HUGE offer or he gets significant player personnel say.  And neither I see coming from Green Bay.

 

What sort of confidence do you  have as a coach if your first thought is "well, I only get Rodgers for another 4-6 years, at best"; you expect you can find and develop another very good QB. 

[Nick_gb]

19 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

 

What sort of confidence do you  have as a coach if your first thought is "well, I only get Rodgers for another 4-6 years, at best"; you expect you can find and develop another very good QB. 

Even if that were the case -- it's not like they'd fire LR the day that Aaron Rodgers retires, they'd give him some time to see how he does developing young talent at the position. If there's one thing Green Bay has been over the years, it's overly committed to their coaching staff (See Dom Capers)

[Mr. Fussnputz]

11 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Of what

"The odds of a SB winning coaching winning another one is more than a full order of magnitude higher than a non-SB winning coach winning his first one... historically. Your math is wrong. I hope you figure this out sooner than later.

So yeah, operating with the info we are all privy too, we should all prefer to roll with a coach who gives us more than 10x a better chance to win a SB. It's the most rational thing imaginable."

What is the cause of the effect you describe above? You should be able to identify the causal factor and then describe the mechanism linking the cause to the effect (being more likely to win a second super bowl). If you can't then there may be other things going on that make it appear to be cause-effect, but in reality it's just a correlation resulting from something else.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

1 hour ago, Scoremore said:

If I'm in charge I would extend MM and end this debate.  Odds are slim will find someone better.  I get fans are frustrated with the team's performance to date however don't believe a coaching change is the answer.  The team could very well regress under this scenario.  Packers have been a victim of some horrid calls and an untimely injury to AR.  Get the frustration with this season but a coaching change is not the answer IMO.  Zook however better get control of special teams.  We can't get a return off without a flag flying.  Getting old.  He better correct it or he should be shown the door.  

Your argument about MM applies to Zook as well. We could get a worse special teams coach. You can't have it both ways. 

[Howler]

1 hour ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Um, McCarthy almost (woulda/shoulda, if not for a ridiculous amount of bad decisions/poor player execution/bad bounces going against GB, only some of which can be pinned on MM) won the NFC in 2014, and had GB in the NFCCG again in 2016. It isn't as if GB has been wildly unsuccessful under him. 

That said, I wouldn't weep if Murphy decided to move on from McCarthy, but let's be fair here. 

Actually, it was McCarthy's fault for many of the debacles. How does the 15-1 2011 team with home field advantage throughout,  not compete against the wildcard giants? I'm open to all ears why that vaunted offense got shut down and never showed up? Then you go to the 2015 NFC Conference title game where he is gifted six turnovers, which a majority came in the first half and they only converted them into a few field goals. I'm tired of hearing about McCarthy when his teams start off notoriously slow in the regular season and it requires a herculean effort from Aaron Rodgers playing off schedule to rescue the season (see 2017 run).

I've been on McCarthy's case for at least 10 years and his weaknesses continually cost this team games. It's the same recurring theme throughout.

 

 

[Mr. Fussnputz]

6 minutes ago, Howler said:

Actually, it was McCarthy's fault for many of the debacles. How does the 15-1 2011 team with home field advantage throughout,  not compete against the wildcard giants? I'm open to all ears why that vaunted offense got shut down and never showed up? Then you go to the 2015 NFC Conference title game where he is gifted six turnovers, which a majority came in the first half and they only converted them into a few field goals. I'm tired of hearing about McCarthy when his teams start off notoriously slow in the regular season and it requires a herculean effort from Aaron Rodgers playing off schedule to rescue the season (see 2017 run).

I've been on McCarthy's case for at least 10 years and his weaknesses continually cost this team games.

Don't forget Caper's failure to prepare for the read option against San Fran! I put that on MM too. As head coach he should have been sure the Packers' D was ready for that. Dom should have been fired after that game. 

I've always maintained that MM is a sightly above average coach who has been very lucky to have had super QBs during his time in GB. That allowed him to rack up a lot of wins in the regular season, especially being in a division with the Bears, Vikings, and Lions, but when he gets into the playoffs and has to face an excellent coach who also has super quarterbacking, he most often loses. His game management skills are poor and his overall game plans are, well, only slightly above average. He got lucky once against Pittsburgh, but if he had to play a best of 7 series to win the Super Bowl, he couldn't do it. 

[Mr Bad Example]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

 

I've always maintained that MM is a sightly above average coach who has been very lucky to have had super QBs during his time in GB. That allowed him to rack up a lot of wins in the regular season, especially being in a division with the Bears, Vikings, and Lions, but when he gets into the playoffs and has to face an excellent coach who also has super quarterbacking, he most often loses. His game management skills are poor and his overall game plans are, well, only slightly above average. He got lucky once against Pittsburgh, but if he had to play a best of 7 series to win the Super Bowl, he couldn't do it. 

I view him as what I call a "Monday-Saturday" coach - for the most part, GB teams under him have been disciplined (i.e. no stupid penalties and don't turn the ball over), motivated (I've rarely seen a McCarthy team show up and just NGAF; they've been rolled and exposed, but always seem to give effort), and the ship runs smoothly. 

Once the ball kicks off, anything could happen. He has improved on his challenges (he used to be just stupid with them, now he gets more heat for erring on the side of caution) but his time management and decisions on when to risk going for it on 4th down remain baffling. He HAS been great at surprise onside kicks through the years. 

 

[Howler]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Don't forget Caper's failure to prepare for the read option against San Fran! I put that on MM too. As head coach he should have been sure the Packers' D was ready for that. Dom should have been fired after that game. 

I've always maintained that MM is a sightly above average coach who has been very lucky to have had super QBs during his time in GB. That allowed him to rack up a lot of wins in the regular season, especially being in a division with the Bears, Vikings, and Lions, but when he gets into the playoffs and has to face an excellent coach who also has super quarterbacking, he most often loses. His game management skills are poor and his overall game plans are, well, only slightly above average. He got lucky once against Pittsburgh, but if he had to play a best of 7 series to win the Super Bowl, he couldn't do it. 

Remember the packers were up 21-3 mid 2nd quarter in that Super Bowl. And then he went into a conservative shell, drawing back the aggressiveness and letting back Pitt in the process. Clay Matthews and Aaron Rodgers won that Super Bowl IN SPITE OF McCarthy!!!  Aaron and Co. could have put up 40+ on that steeler defense if he didn't rein them back in.

[Howler]

11 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

I view him as what I call a "Monday-Saturday" coach - for the most part, GB teams under him have been disciplined (i.e. no stupid penalties and don't turn the ball over), motivated (I've rarely seen a McCarthy team show up and just NGAF; they've been rolled and exposed, but always seem to give effort), and the ship runs smoothly. 

Once the ball kicks off, anything could happen. He has improved on his challenges (he used to be just stupid with them, now he gets more heat for erring on the side of caution) but his time management and decisions on when to risk going for it on 4th down remain baffling. He HAS been great at surprise onside kicks through the years. 

 

McCarthy is a superior coach managing personalities in the locker room and teaching QB fundamentals.  His major weaknesses are lack of adaptability in regard to a game plan and situational game awareness. He panics with leads and misreads game flow.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

3 minutes ago, Howler said:

Remember the packers were up 21-3 mid 2nd quarter in that Super Bowl. And then he went into a conservative shell, drawing back the aggressiveness and letting back Pitt in the process. Clay Matthews and Aaron Rodgers won that Super Bowl IN SPITE OF McCarthy!!!

I would love to see what this team could have done with a top tier coach.

Perhaps, MM's greatest strength is in people management. He has cultivated a strong locker room. I will give him that.

[{Family Ghost}]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

I would love to see what this team could have done with a top tier coach.

Perhaps, MM's greatest strength is in people management. He has cultivated a strong locker room. I will give him that.

He's Mr. Point A to point B coach that caught lightning in a bottle once and got a Super Bowl win.  Then since he won a Super Bowl he kind of became above reproach a bit.  He's not nearly as good of a head coach as his record shows .. he's had elite Qb play for years, and we've seen first hand what happens when he doesn't have that .. he loses.

[Howler]

5 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

He's Mr. Point A to point B coach that caught lightning in a bottle once and got a Super Bowl win.  Then since he won a Super Bowl he kind of became above reproach a bit.  He's not nearly as good of a head coach as his record shows .. he's had elite Qb play for years, and we've seen first hand what happens when he doesn't have that .. he loses.

His deficiencies show up greatly in the postseason. That's where his warts show. He can screw around with the bears and lions during the regular season, but when the margin is smaller, it's usually a gaffe related to his hierarchy that costs this team.

[Howler]

McCarthy sort of reminds me of an offensively geared Marty Schottenheimer. A good coach that doesn't have the 'it' factor to become great. Ironically, that's where his coaching pedigree comes from.

 

[MacReady]

2 hours ago, Pugger said:

Do you think we have a better than 6% chance if we stay with McCarthy?  When we hired Mac we took a chance on him too.  After a while things can go stale.  Look at Andy Reid's tenure in Philly.  Things got stale there too.  Reid moved on to KC and Philly hired a unproven HC in Pederson and the rest is history.  I suspect if we move on from McCarthy he won't be unemployed very long.

And Andy Reid would have turned the Eagles around just like he's turned the Chiefs around.  You should not be using Andy Reid as an example in favor of firing McCarthy.  The Eagles went from Andy Reid to Chip Kelly.  You want the Packers to go through a Chip Kelly? 

Not only would McCarthy not be unemployed for long, he'd take a highly talented team like the Browns to the playoffs in his first year and make 90% of the people here look really, really, really silly.