MrOaktown_56 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, NYRaider said: We gave up the 11th most yards and 3rd most TD's to TEs last season despite having the Kelce stopper Daryl Worley on the team. Worley didn't even play that role until very late in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Worley didn't even play that role until very late in the season. Kelce put up 90 yards the second time we played them. Worley only saw snaps at safety because we had zero depth there and he was too slow to play CB. Randall has shown more range at FS and has played in the slot a ton. Abram is a rookie first round pick at SS. Who exactly does Worley see the field over at safety? He has zero ball skills, isn't physical, and lacks range. If you had a player with the ability to lock down elite TE's on the roster the last two seasons, why didn't we ever use him in that way? We've been one of the five worst teams in the league covering TE's with Worley on the roster. Lawson might start the season opposite of Mullen or it could be a rookie. We're in year two of a major rebuild so young players are going to have to play key roles for us. We swung for the fences in free agency at CB but missed it is what it is. The staff is apparently really high on Johnson/Nixon, Mullen/Joyner are locks, Lawson deserves a roster spot over Worley, and that last spot will likely go to a rookie we take early in the draft. If you're going to carry a 5th safety it would also ideally be a rookie who can replace Randall as the starter after the season. Edited April 20, 2020 by NYRaider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Not so sure Lawson deserves a roster spot over Worley. I'm not going to get into an argument on that but i don't think one is clearly better than the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: Not so sure Lawson deserves a roster spot over Worley. I'm not going to get into an argument on that but i don't think one is clearly better than the other. Agreed. I don’t know why people are so negative on Worley. Dude is still young and is a decent backup level corner who has the size to match up on tight ends. In response to the above comment, I don’t think he did bad against Kelce at all... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: Not so sure Lawson deserves a roster spot over Worley. I'm not going to get into an argument on that but i don't think one is clearly better than the other. Lawson gave up 215 yards in 11 games, is a 4.4 guy, and has missed 5 tackles the past two seasons combined with a 6% missed tackle rate. Worley gave up 711 yards in 15 games, is a 4.6 guy, and has missed 17 tackles the past two seasons combined with a 16% missed tackle rate. Lawson has allowed 75 yards or fewer in 56 consecutive games dating back to 2015. That is the longest streak for a cornerback in the last 13 seasons. And that's with starting a ton of games. He has also been one of the best corners against the run in the league the last two seasons according to PFF. He's definitely not a world beater by any means but he deserves a roster spot over Worley and there's a reason one of them is currently signed and the other is unemployed. Edited April 20, 2020 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Agreed. I don’t know why people are so negative on Worley. Dude is still young and is a decent backup level corner. He's just not a scheme fit at all. He's not fast or physical enough to play on the outside, sucks in run support, and lacks the range to play safety. Not sure why people here like him so much he was one of the worst CB's in the league last year and a major reason our secondary stunk so bad. He was okay in Carolina where he go to play in a zone heavy scheme but he just doesn't fit with what we're trying to do. Lawson isn't great but as mentioned above he's currently on the longest active streak for any CB in the league of consecutive games not giving up 75+ yards. Plus he's one of the best corners in the league as far as run support is concerned. Edited April 20, 2020 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Lawson gave up 215 yards in 11 games, is a 4.4 guy, and has missed 5 tackles the past two seasons combined with a 6% missed tackle rate. Worley gave up 711 yards in 15 games, is a 4.6 guy, and has missed 17 tackles the past two seasons combined with a 16% missed tackle rate. Lawson has allowed 75 yards or fewer in 56 consecutive games dating back to 2015. That is the longest streak more than doubling any other cornerback and is the longest streak for a cornerback in the last 13 seasons. And that's with He has also been one of the best corners against the run in the league the last two seasons according to PFF. He's definitely not a world beater by any means but he deserves a roster spot over Worley and there's a reason one of them is currently signed and the other is unemployed. That stat is alittle deceiving. Lawson only played substantial snaps in 4-6 games and his snap count was 3times less than Worley's. There is a reason for that as well. Just watch a rookie, Nixon and Johnson beat out Lawson for a roster spot. Not saying it's certain but I wouldn't be surprised. Both of these guys are back up AT THIS POINT and need to prove they belong on the roster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, NightTrainLane said: That stat is alittle deceiving. Lawson only played substantial snaps in 4-6 games and his snap count was 3times less than Worley's. There is a reason for that as well. Just watch a rookie, Nixon and Johnson beat out Lawson for a roster spot. Not saying it's certain but I wouldn't be surprised. Both of these guys are back up AT THIS POINT and need to prove they belong on the roster. One reason was because he was suspended to start the season and Worley was in year 2 in the scheme. If you want to keep a veteran CB on the roster Lawson makes more sense. He just fits better in our scheme. If the staff had any faith in Worley being a good player here or the Travis Kelce stopper he would've been resigned already. We were ready to pay Eli Apple $6M guaranteed just to avoid having to bring Worley back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: One reason was because he was suspended to start the season and Worley was in year 2 in the scheme. If you want to keep a veteran CB on the roster Lawson makes more sense. He just fits better in our scheme. If the staff had any faith in Worley being a good player here or the Travis Kelce stopper he would've been resigned already. We were ready to pay Eli Apple $6M guaranteed just to avoid having to bring Worley back. Yeah, all valid points but we'll see if he is on the roster in Sept. Worley will get signed (maybe not by us)and I'm willing to bet he plays more snaps than Lawson. The reason Worley isn't signed imo is he is a 1-2mil value guy just like Lawson like I was pointing out and it gonna take alittle reality check(not being signed til after the draft) for him to accept that. Both need to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: Yeah, all valid points but we'll see if he is on the roster in Sept. Worley will get signed (maybe not by us)and I'm willing to bet he plays more snaps than Lawson. The reason Worley isn't signed imo is he is a 1-2mil value guy just like Lawson like I was pointing out and it gonna take alittle reality check(not being signed til after the draft) for him to accept that. Both need to prove it. Worley was okay in a zone heavy scheme in Carolina. He's not a fit in Gunther's defense. Lawson shouldn't play very many snaps as the starters for the majority of the season should and likely will be Mullen/1st round rookie. But he's a solid backup to have as a guy that actually fits in the scheme, is solid in run support, and has started a ton of games in the league. Not sure why people here like Worley so much when he got absolutely toasted time and time again last season. He was getting 6 targets per game and finished the season with 1 INT. Yuck. Edited April 20, 2020 by NYRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Worley was okay in a zone heavy scheme in Carolina. He's not a fit in Gunther's defense. Lawson shouldn't play very many snaps as the starters for the majority of the season should and likely will be Mullen/1st round rookie. But he's a solid backup to have as a guy that actually fits in the scheme, is solid in run support, and has started a ton of games in the league. Not sure why people here like Worley so much when he got absolutely toasted time and time again last season. He was getting 6 targets per game and finished the season with 1 INT. Yuck. I don't like Worley anymore than I like Lawson and that is the point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: I don't like Worley anymore than I like Lawson and that is the point. One guy is already under contract with the team while the other is not. Seems pretty clear how the staff feels about Worley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Worley didn't even play that role until very late in the season. Yeah,,, using those stats to say Worley sucks is completely not accurate. It’s blaming Worley for poor coverage by LBs and Ss. Worley has his issues so there’s definitely ways to knock him but that’s isn’t one. its not like people are saying let’s give him a multi year deal or 1yr, 6M deal. We’re talking about a cheap 1y, 2-3M deal, max. I don’t see why anyone would be so opposed to bringing in a former starter on a cheap deal.... if he isn’t good he’ll get the bench.... in fact the whole point of bringing him back is to push him to the bench once a young player seized the starting job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: its not like people are saying let’s give him a multi year deal or 1yr, 6M deal. We’re talking about a cheap 1y, 2-3M deal, max. I don’t see why anyone would be so opposed to bringing in a former starter on a cheap deal.... if he isn’t good he’ll get the bench.... in fact the whole point of bringing him back is to push him to the bench once a young player seized the starting job. You'd likely be giving up either Nixon or Johnson to carry Worley. We've seen what our secondary looks like with Worley playing a significant role, we had one of the worst pass defenses in the league with him on the field. You already have a veteran in Lawson who's a better scheme fit, better player, and under contract in the room. Worley provides nothing that we can't get from another player on the roster as it stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Same thing with Karl Joseph. People wanted him back and were genuinely upset when we let him walk. With Worley and Joseph as significant pieces in our secondary the last two seasons we allowed almost 8,000 passing yards, 69 TD, and only 23 INT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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