Jroc04 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 On 1/7/2024 at 6:17 PM, Shockwave said: Dak is so damn good... don't care about your bias.. I hate that its true...but it's time to admit it man. The dude is a great QB. On 1/8/2024 at 7:39 AM, Shockwave said: I'd agree with you here if his numbers dropped off significantly in the postseason...but they hold up quite well to his in season averages. W/L's are a team stat. Don't get me wrong I'm totally pulling for another Dallas one and done choke job. I hope GB embarrasses them off the field and Dak throws 5 picks and we get the ever satisfying Jerry face... but the dude is a stud. You know it and I know it I'm just willing to swallow my bias and admit it. Again, here are the posts in question. This entertains his career accomplishments. Not just this season. So what are we talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shockwave said: For me.. it was: Great: Dak Tua Allen Hurts Burrow Purdy This is from that comparisons thread that you couldn't be bothered to read Bro. It’s a 12 page thread. I’m not reading 12 pages. So, we’re talking about this year. Then yes, he’s playing great. No arguments. Thats not what previous posts were saying. I said 2 playoff wins doesn’t make you great. If you would have stepped in and said, just this year, it would have been over. But there was doubling down. Edited January 9 by Jroc04 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimonas Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) I feel like it's pretty objective to say that dak is a good actual qb, a great statistical qb, and a choker as a total qb. Like 25 (arbitrary number i pulled out of my ***) teams would love to have Dak. Those other 7 would want someone better than Dak to push them over the hump for a SB. But who knows, narratives change fast in sports. If god forbid he wins it all this year he'll just be football dirk nowitzki. Edited January 9 by Daimonas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 29 minutes ago, Daimonas said: I feel like it's pretty objective to say that dak is a good actual qb, a great statistical qb, and a choker as a total qb. Like 25 (arbitrary number i pulled out of my ***) teams would love to have Dak. Those other 7 would want someone better than Dak to push them over the hump for a SB. But who knows, narratives change fast in sports. If god forbid he wins it all this year he'll just be football dirk nowitzki. I just kinda roughly went division to division and asked myself if I’d rather have Dak or their current situation and I came up with about 16 or so teams. There were more than a few that I had to think about for a few seconds. Maybe another 5 or so. So, I’d rather have Dak on about 21 teams if I’m leaning towards Dak. If Dak were great, there’d be more teams. Opinion based obviously but that’s a pretty damning argument against him being great for me. If he wins a SB it catapults him in terms of greatness. Thats rarified air. If he proves he can win at the highest level on the highest stage, that goes a long way. MVPs, APs, PBs to a lesser extent, playoff success, all that is considered. It has to be. Regular season is exactly that….regular. Every superstar athlete is measured in post season success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimonas Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 41 minutes ago, Jroc04 said: I just kinda roughly went division to division and asked myself if I’d rather have Dak or their current situation and I came up with about 16 or so teams. There were more than a few that I had to think about for a few seconds. Maybe another 5 or so. So, I’d rather have Dak on about 21 teams if I’m leaning towards Dak. If Dak were great, there’d be more teams. Opinion based obviously but that’s a pretty damning argument against him being great for me. If he wins a SB it catapults him in terms of greatness. Thats rarified air. If he proves he can win at the highest level on the highest stage, that goes a long way. MVPs, APs, PBs to a lesser extent, playoff success, all that is considered. It has to be. Regular season is exactly that….regular. Every superstar athlete is measured in post season success. Curious, the "great" label aside, who do you consider elite right now? I feel like everyone saying who they feel is an elite QB would go a long way with understanding everyone's stance on "great". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Daimonas said: Curious, the "great" label aside, who do you consider elite right now? I feel like everyone saying who they feel is an elite QB would go a long way with understanding everyone's stance on "great". Current QBs I consider elite? We talking career? Because there’s not many. Or just guys playing elite right now? Also, I mean I’d have to know tiers. Is elite the first tier? Then great? Then good? Then average? Edited January 9 by Jroc04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Jroc04 said: Bro. It’s a 12 page thread. I’m not reading 12 pages. So, we’re talking about this year. Then yes, he’s playing great. No arguments. Thats not what previous posts were saying. I said 2 playoff wins doesn’t make you great. If you would have stepped in and said, just this year, it would have been over. But there was doubling down. By your standards, Shohei Ohtani isn’t great … meanwhile he is truly the greatest baseball player currently playing and may go down as the greatest of all-time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimonas Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 15 minutes ago, Jroc04 said: Current QBs I consider elite? We talking career? Because there’s not many. Or just guys playing elite right now? Also, I mean I’d have to know tiers. Is elite the first tier? Then great? Then good? Then average? Elite in the context of your previous conversation about Dak. I hadn't read it all but I assumed it was career-wise. And that's also a point I'm trying to make. Not everyone needs tiers, some people just have elite and the rest, some have elite and good and the rest, some have the whole shebang. I imagine that's what might be causing a disconnect in your guys' debate on Dak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACO Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I think if Dak were a free agent right now he would make a **** ton of money because A LOT of teams would fight for that man. Dak is a really good franchise QB. It just is true. That said he still has do more in the post season. That is the thing that keeps people from really putting him in that elite tier. Now if he balls out and still loses (ala Jalen) then people might give him a pass.... but barely. This year they need to make the NFCC. Anything less is a wasted season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, MaddHatter said: By your standards, Shohei Ohtani isn’t great … meanwhile he is truly the greatest baseball player currently playing and may go down as the greatest of all-time The dude has a rookie of the year award, 2 MVPs and one MVP runner up year in 6 years. He’s great. He’s had a great career to this point. That’s hardware my friend. But if he never wins in the postseason, his legacy takes hit. And also, it’s baseball. You can be a bonafide great player and never have any relevance in the post season because the sport is ultra-individualized. It’s apples and oranges. When you’re the QB of a football team, the offense runs through you. You have much more impact. It’s not a good comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, ACO said: I think if Dak were a free agent right now he would make a **** ton of money because A LOT of teams would fight for that man. Dak is a really good franchise QB. It just is true. That said he still has do more in the post season. That is the thing that keeps people from really putting him in that elite tier. Now if he balls out and still loses (ala Jalen) then people might give him a pass.... but barely. This year they need to make the NFCC. Anything less is a wasted season. You just described the Dallas Cowboys in a nutshell. Dak is a FA basically. You honestly believe Jerry of all people is not going to restructure his $60M contract for 2024, extend him for a "Team Friendlt" 😎 54-$55M? Regardless of the 2023 outcome? He has no choice. No choice but to 🙏 at some GD point he can carry hat team, can get to a SB. They have no other option. Devil You Know, concept!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Daimonas said: Elite in the context of your previous conversation about Dak. I hadn't read it all but I assumed it was career-wise. And that's also a point I'm trying to make. Not everyone needs tiers, some people just have elite and the rest, some have elite and good and the rest, some have the whole shebang. I imagine that's what might be causing a disconnect in your guys' debate on Dak. I dunno bro. First it was Dak is great, period. Then when challenged, it changed to he’s not great, he’s just playing great. I can’t nail them down. Theres clearly a difference between someone that is a great that’s still playing and has established themselves as great previous. And a player that is considered great that probably needs some more accolades to be definitively great but are on their way. And then there’s guys that flash great and have great games or seasons but lack consistency or proof and/or accolades to put themselves on the level or above the guys mentioned. There’s some wiggle room when it comes to contemporaries but also you should consider how strong an era is too. If it’s a weak era, does the top 2-3 guys get considered great because there’s not much else and comparatively would be considered top 7-8 a half a decade back? I dunno. Or do you not consider a guy like Rivers not great because, although he has the longevity and stats, he pales in comparison to his contemporaries. But currently: Great. Hands down: Aaron Rodgers - He’s a great that has proven it. Has hardware. Pretty much a non argument. He’s unanimously considered great and is already gold jacketed. Guys like him are greats that are currently playing. Currently great/on their way to great: Pat Mahomes - Maybe not the greatest example because he’s already considered great. He has hardware. MVPs, SBs. He’s a killer. But a guy that is on their way to greatness but is proven to be consistently great. Maybe a better example of this is Lamar maybe? He has some hardware but I don’t know if he’s considered great yet. He needs some post season success. Stafford too. He’s going to end with a great career probably. Flacco possibly if he has a storybook end here. Guys that play great but aren’t at that level yet: This is where I have Dak and a slew of other really good QBs. They flash great or have great seasons but lack the hardware and/or consistent postseason success. Burrow, Allen, Hurts (maybe?), Cousins, Goff, Tua all play great at times but need more. Probably some others I’m missing. But yea, that’s where I’m at. When someone says he’s great, you need the receipts. If someone says, he’s playing great? Sure I can give someone that. Doesn’t mean he’s great. Cousins plays great at times. Hurts had a stretch. We saw Purdy play great this year. Dak turned a corner the 2nd half. Allen struggled but is playing MVP ball. They aren’t great. Not yet. Maybe they’ll get there, maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Damn, to think I’d drop by over here and see Giants and Eagles fans debating over Dak Prescott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 10 hours ago, NoFlyZone said: Damn, to think I’d drop by over here and see Giants and Eagles fans debating over Dak Prescott. You wouldn’t think we’d discuss NFCE things in the NFCE thingy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 5 hours ago, Jroc04 said: You wouldn’t think we’d discuss NFCE things in the NFCE thingy? It’s more so the fact that it’s odd to see a Giants fan advocating for Dak Prescott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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