Rtnldave Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said: You have to kidding me with some of those right? Attempts?? If ever there was a compiler stat that would be it. You named 4 records, 3 of which nobody gives a scrap about. Rice has owned the ENTIRE WR RECORD BOOK! Career, single season, single game. Catches, yards, TDs. You name it. But you know why you bring up Smith, bc you already know as I do, when it comes to the record book, Bradys name isnt worth mentioning on any individual statistic. Team accomplishments sure, and I am more than willing to give the devil his due, Brady is absolutely outstanding in the postseason. But in terms of football player cmon man. You ain't listing him ahead of LT, Reggie White, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Jim Brown. And you sure as hell ain't listing him ahead of Jerry Rice. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_td_single_season.htm Ahhhh HEM!! You might want to check your facts there pal. Check who has the most TD's in 1 season. He also has 3 appearances in the top 10 whereas Rice only has 2. AND, the year he caught the most he had an actual REAL Franchise QB throwing him the ball, none other than Tom Brady. And that was 1 year. What would he have done in several years with a QB of that caliber. Also, most attempts for a RB is HUGE statistic. It is testament to their longevity and toughness at a position that requires thee most hits of any. So uh, I wouldn't poo poo it. And record books are only half the story. This past SB was a perfect example of my point. The greatest to ever play doesn't need to put up gaudy numbers or be a highlite reel EVERY game. Sometimes circumstances dictate otherwise. He was basically playing against a monster defense that kept his team out of the red zone virtually the entire game. But Brady, being the greatest made the one play at the critical moment with a perfect touch pass into triple coverage to set up the game winning TD. Its what defines greatness. Overcoming adversity, overcoming the defense designed to beat you that was, until that moment, working. Finding the chink in the opposing armor and then having the skill and stones to exploit it on the biggest of stages. THAT is greatness. Smith did this many times in his career. The 1993 NYG game in OT with one arm to win the division and get the bye. Then the SB that year when Aikman was paying with a concussion and was totally ineffective. Defense was set up to stop him. They KNEW he was getting the ball and he prevailed anyway. So it appears to me that stats are your rationale. Necessary and effective, but they don't tell the whole story. If that is the case, we are going to have to agree to disagree. PS: Receptions in a season???? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_single_season.htm PSS: Receiving yards in a single season???? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_single_season.htm PSSSSS: Yards per catch career??????????????? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_per_rec_single_season.htm Yeah, I hate to tell you this but your single season records are inaccurate. Edited February 7, 2019 by Rtnldave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfournier103 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Tom Brady handles the ball almost every single offensive snap. Jerry Rice averaged 5.1 receptions per game. The Goat over Rice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverine_Joe Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 QB comes with more responsibility. QBs are the general who leads the team. it's not fair for the WRs, but that's just how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverine_Joe Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 8 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: You have to kidding me with some of those right? Attempts?? If ever there was a compiler stat that would be it. You named 4 records, 3 of which nobody gives a scrap about. Rice has owned the ENTIRE WR RECORD BOOK! Career, single season, single game. Catches, yards, TDs. You name it. But you know why you bring up Smith, bc you already know as I do, when it comes to the record book, Bradys name isnt worth mentioning on any individual statistic. Team accomplishments sure, and I am more than willing to give the devil his due, Brady is absolutely outstanding in the postseason. But in terms of football player cmon man. You ain't listing him ahead of LT, Reggie White, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Jim Brown. And you sure as hell ain't listing him ahead of Jerry Rice. most absurd thing i've heard. stats aren't everything. QB stats are results of offensive philosophy of the team along with the weaponry. we saw what kind of stats brady were able to put up when he had weapons. let's pretend antonio brown does his thing plays till early 40's and doesn't get hurt to achieve everything jerry rice did even winning SBs. would anybody put antonio brown over any top QBs? no. brady's greatness far exceeds stats. brady makes the team. jerry rice is a part of the team. honestly it's not even comparable to me. would any of you pick jerry rice over a top QB to build a team? i don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 11 hours ago, Rtnldave said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_td_single_season.htm Ahhhh HEM!! You might want to check your facts there pal. Check who has the most TD's in 1 season. He also has 3 appearances in the top 10 whereas Rice only has 2. AND, the year he caught the most he had an actual REAL Franchise QB throwing him the ball, none other than Tom Brady. And that was 1 year. What would he have done in several years with a QB of that caliber. Also, most attempts for a RB is HUGE statistic. It is testament to their longevity and toughness at a position that requires thee most hits of any. So uh, I wouldn't poo poo it. And record books are only half the story. This past SB was a perfect example of my point. The greatest to ever play doesn't need to put up gaudy numbers or be a highlite reel EVERY game. Sometimes circumstances dictate otherwise. He was basically playing against a monster defense that kept his team out of the red zone virtually the entire game. But Brady, being the greatest made the one play at the critical moment with a perfect touch pass into triple coverage to set up the game winning TD. Its what defines greatness. Overcoming adversity, overcoming the defense designed to beat you that was, until that moment, working. Finding the chink in the opposing armor and then having the skill and stones to exploit it on the biggest of stages. THAT is greatness. Smith did this many times in his career. The 1993 NYG game in OT with one arm to win the division and get the bye. Then the SB that year when Aikman was paying with a concussion and was totally ineffective. Defense was set up to stop him. They KNEW he was getting the ball and he prevailed anyway. So it appears to me that stats are your rationale. Necessary and effective, but they don't tell the whole story. If that is the case, we are going to have to agree to disagree. PS: Receptions in a season???? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_single_season.htm PSS: Receiving yards in a single season???? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_single_season.htm PSSSSS: Yards per catch career??????????????? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rec_yds_per_rec_single_season.htm Yeah, I hate to tell you this but your single season records are inaccurate. Yes after 20 years, in 4 more games, somebody finally caught his single season TD record. A few years after that, somebody got yards. No WR has ever come close to his 1987, arguably the greatest season by any player at any position in football. And I'm not saying the stats are the end all be all, I'm saying when we are comparing, we have to look at the whole picture. They both have rings. They both elevate their game in the postseason. They both had guys who could be considered GOAT coaches. What separates the 2 is the fact that after 11 years in the NFL Rice owned the entire WR record book. And then spent the next 10 years to put it out of reach before he retired. Brady has no career stat Mark's except the 3 that were made up just for him this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) So what? The B.S. QB ratings is that what's bothering you? Here is a made up QB rating if I ever heard of one. Passing yards. And this goes right into your team and Rice. Why does a QB get credit for say a 50 yard pass when he throws the ball 10 yards and the receiver runs 40? The receiver only gets 40 yards on a run after catch. The QB gets 50 yards of passing. The ball went 10 yards!!!!! This is indicitavie of how misleading stats are. Especially for QB's. And it is how the west coast offense Was designed. So please don't tell me you are ONLY using stats as your final measuring stick. Edited February 7, 2019 by Rtnldave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 8 hours ago, Rtnldave said: So what? The B.S. QB ratings is that what's bothering you? Here is a made up QB rating if I ever heard of one. Passing yards. And this goes right into your team and Rice. Why does a QB get credit for say a 50 yard pass when he throws the ball 10 yards and the receiver runs 40? The receiver only gets 40 yards on a run after catch. The QB gets 50 yards of passing. The ball went 10 yards!!!!! This is indicitavie of how misleading stats are. Especially for QB's. And it is how the west coast offense Was designed. So please don't tell me you are ONLY using stats as your final measuring stick. Apparently you dont know how the stats even work. Why does a qb get credit for the total of the play on a pass play? Bc we count the entire play. The same reason the WR gets credit for the total yards of the play as well, not just the yards after the catch. And no my issue isnt passing yards or passing TDs. My issue is comparing the guy who became the undisputed best player at his position ever after 11 years, and then continued to be a top end player at his position for another 10 years to a guy who after 20 years still isn't the undisputed best player at his position ever. That bc we want to call him the GOAT bc of team accomplishments, we have to make up new stats to try and put him on top. To be the best there has to some objective measure to individual accomplishment to go by. Brady has none. He has 6 rings, which is astounding. But hes not the all time leader in yards, or TDs, or comp%, or passer rating, or qbr, or any other stat. He held the single season TD record for 5 years before it was broke. And that's it. Rice had arguably the greatest season of any player at any position ever in 1987 putting up ridiculous #s in 12 fn games that took 20 years and 4 add'l games to just barely scrape by. He held EVERY all time record after 11 years in the league. That's insane. Now those all time records are untouchable, likely to never be broken. I'm not penalize either player for what they had around them on teams, just say they have had great success at the biggest moments, even at the age of 40 and 41. We have to separate the 2 somehow logically, and so we have to say what is different. It's pretty obvious the difference is the record book. Jerry Rice owns it for WR, Tom Brady cant even get his name mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said: Apparently you dont know how the stats even work. Why does a qb get credit for the total of the play on a pass play? Bc we count the entire play. The same reason the WR gets credit for the total yards of the play as well, not just the yards after the catch. And no my issue isnt passing yards or passing TDs. My issue is comparing the guy who became the undisputed best player at his position ever after 11 years, and then continued to be a top end player at his position for another 10 years to a guy who after 20 years still isn't the undisputed best player at his position ever. That bc we want to call him the GOAT bc of team accomplishments, we have to make up new stats to try and put him on top. To be the best there has to some objective measure to individual accomplishment to go by. Brady has none. He has 6 rings, which is astounding. But hes not the all time leader in yards, or TDs, or comp%, or passer rating, or qbr, or any other stat. He held the single season TD record for 5 years before it was broke. And that's it. Rice had arguably the greatest season of any player at any position ever in 1987 putting up ridiculous #s in 12 fn games that took 20 years and 4 add'l games to just barely scrape by. He held EVERY all time record after 11 years in the league. That's insane. Now those all time records are untouchable, likely to never be broken. I'm not penalize either player for what they had around them on teams, just say they have had great success at the biggest moments, even at the age of 40 and 41. We have to separate the 2 somehow logically, and so we have to say what is different. It's pretty obvious the difference is the record book. Jerry Rice owns it for WR, Tom Brady cant even get his name mentioned. Listen, I really count take your point of view seriously anymore if you keep telling me Rice has all the wr records after I put links in a previous post that proves otherwise. And YES there was a player that had a season like Rice did in 87. His name is Emmitt Smith and the year was 1993. 3rd consecutive rushing title in ONLY 14 games. League MVP, SB MVP and back to back titles. Top that! Jerry Rice = GOAT WR Emmitt Smith = GOAT RB Tom Brady = GOAT. Edited February 7, 2019 by Rtnldave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 55 minutes ago, Rtnldave said: Listen, I really count take your point of view seriously anymore if you keep telling me Rice has all the wr records after I put links in a previous post that proves otherwise. And YES there was a player that had a season like Rice did in 87. His name is Emmitt Smith and the year was 1993. 3rd consecutive rushing title in ONLY 14 games. League MVP, SB MVP and back to back titles. Top that! Jerry Rice = GOAT WR Emmitt Smith = GOAT RB Tom Brady = GOAT. Apparently you have a reading comprehension issue. I said after his 11th season he owned every WR record. Which is verifiably true. I acknowledged that 20 years later his single season TD record was finally broken (with 4 extra games) I also acknowledged that his single season yardage record was broken a few years after that. Those are verifiably true. I also said that he STILL owns all the all time records (verifiably true) and that they are untouchable (obviously subjective). You cant even come close to comparing Smith's 93 to Rices 87. Rice's 87 was 22 TDs 1093 yards with 65 catches, in 12 games. He scored 1 out of every 3 times he touched the ball, and the touched the ball about 6 times a game. Smith scored 10 total TDs, not even close to his best, or Rices 23 total in 2 extra games. You would have been much better off trying to use 92 or 95 as your argument. The fact that you are saying that Smith is the GOAT RB, I think that says all that needs to be said, and I'm done with this conversation with you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverine_Joe Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 so if Gronk somehow stays healthy and plays well for another 7-8 years then does he becomes the GOAT? because he would own every TE records. this whole point of rice is the GOAT because he has unbeatable stats over his peers is really ridiculous to me. we don't consider LT as one of the GOATs because he has accumulated insurmountable stats. we consider him as one of the greatest ever for what he has done on the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rtnldave Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: Apparently you have a reading comprehension issue. I said after his 11th season he owned every WR record. Which is verifiably true. I acknowledged that 20 years later his single season TD record was finally broken (with 4 extra games) I also acknowledged that his single season yardage record was broken a few years after that. Those are verifiably true. I also said that he STILL owns all the all time records (verifiably true) and that they are untouchable (obviously subjective). You cant even come close to comparing Smith's 93 to Rices 87. Rice's 87 was 22 TDs 1093 yards with 65 catches, in 12 games. He scored 1 out of every 3 times he touched the ball, and the touched the ball about 6 times a game. Smith scored 10 total TDs, not even close to his best, or Rices 23 total in 2 extra games. You would have been much better off trying to use 92 or 95 as your argument. The fact that you are saying that Smith is the GOAT RB, I think that says all that needs to be said, and I'm done with this conversation with you Yeah well, Rice would have 3 more rings if it wasn't for Smith. He bested Rice 2 out of 3. If gaudy numbers are your measure of GOAT then I guess Drew Brees is the GOAT at QB, Tony Romo is better than Aikman and Staubach, and Frank Gore will be the GOAT at RB if he gets 3500 yards in the next 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENINCH Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Tom Brady is the all time GOAT at the most important position in football. Also he's been more dominant than Rice. 6>3 and Brady isn't done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 2/6/2019 at 3:30 PM, lancerman said: Moss at his peak did things I couldn't conceive of Rice doing. I can see Moss doing everything Rice ever did. Except for blocking on runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikes635 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I really don't know, I have been saying Jerry for so long I'm not sure I'm ready to switch. Maybe once Brady retires I will vote for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) Why is Brady even one of the choices? There's several players that have been more dominant throughout their careers. He might not even be the best at his own position, let alone all positions. Reggie White Lawrence Taylor Jim Brown Walter Payton Anthony Munoz Joe Montana Jerry Rice Deacon Jones All have arguments over Brady Edited February 13, 2019 by C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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