Apex Legends (F2P BR)

[titansNvolsR#1]

A coworker has been playing this game since release and is trying to get me into it; however, I'm awful and feel like everyone I run into is just astronomically better. Doesn't help that I rarely play these types of game.s 

[DreamKid]

On 11/21/2023 at 5:42 PM, titansNvolsR#1 said:

A coworker has been playing this game since release and is trying to get me into it; however, I'm awful and feel like everyone I run into is just astronomically better. Doesn't help that I rarely play these types of game.s 

Skill gap in Apex is bigger than any other FPS out right now. The speed of movement, length of battles(increased health + shields compared to other FPS), and amount of abilities all combine to create a steep steep learning curve. 

I consider myself a casual but talented FPS player, and it took a while for me to get acclimated.

I'd recommend practicing in Apex's mixtape playlist where they have Gun Run, Control, & TDM play modes. All are valuable resources that will help you nail down the basics in combat situations that carry less stress/stakes than the actual BR mode. Some beginner characters I'd recommend are Mirage, Loba, Revenant, or Bangalore- all of them have new player friendly kits and abilities conducive to escaping(Which is key for new players to learn in Apex). Also guns like the Alternator, Eva-8, and Triple Take would probably be the easiest to handle early on. 

You also might want to tell your friend to play on an alt account with you for a while, because you could be getting into higher level lobbies if he's been playing since launch. It's gonna be hard to improve if you're getting smashed by Diamond/Masters/Pred 3 stacks in Pubs.

[Tugboat]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:42 PM, titansNvolsR#1 said:

A coworker has been playing this game since release and is trying to get me into it; however, I'm awful and feel like everyone I run into is just astronomically better. Doesn't help that I rarely play these types of game.s 

 

I find myself in a similar place these days.  I still play this thing every once in a while with a few friends because it's a fun way to shoot the **** from opposite sides of the country and just have an entertaining, sometimes frustrating bit of shared entertainment.

 

On 11/25/2023 at 4:34 PM, DreamKid said:

Skill gap in Apex is bigger than any other FPS out right now. The speed of movement, length of battles(increased health + shields compared to other FPS), and amount of abilities all combine to create a steep steep learning curve. 

I consider myself a casual but talented FPS player, and it took a while for me to get acclimated.

I'd recommend practicing in Apex's mixtape playlist where they have Gun Run, Control, & TDM play modes. All are valuable resources that will help you nail down the basics in combat situations that carry less stress/stakes than the actual BR mode. Some beginner characters I'd recommend are Mirage, Loba, Revenant, or Bangalore- all of them have new player friendly kits and abilities conducive to escaping(Which is key for new players to learn in Apex). Also guns like the Alternator, Eva-8, and Triple Take would probably be the easiest to handle early on. 

You also might want to tell your friend to play on an alt account with you for a while, because you could be getting into higher level lobbies if he's been playing since launch. It's gonna be hard to improve if you're getting smashed by Diamond/Masters/Pred 3 stacks in Pubs.

 

I think the bolded is central to why i'm particularly bad at Apex.  I've never been a great videogamer for the most part.  I don't think i got started early enough, and i definitely didn't spend enough time on it during those key development years.  lol.  Also...i just rarely even play anymore so whatever i did have has atrophied bad.

But the length of battles just drives me ******* insane with Apex.  And it just ramps up the further into a round you get with BR.  It takes away the one thing i'm good at in videogames.  The ability to mix passive scouting vs shock and awe surprise.  The shooter games in the past that i've been pretty decent at...are things like Battlefield3/4, Battlefront.  Where strategic positioning and surprise is decisive.  "First shot wins" type games.  I specifically sank idk how many hundreds of hours into BF3/4 "Hardcore" mode.  Which used to be fun.  No radar, no mercy.  Just figuring out where the enemy is and booping them.  Fit my gaming style perfectly.

 

With Apex...i find i almost always shoot first and almost always from behind.  And then still die.  And it feels kinda bad.  Land half a dozen shots or whatever, multiple shots from a sniper rifle.  Just feel like they should be dead.  Then they turn around in their gold armor and murder me.

It's funny because it's so easy to just end up in the final 3 or whatever.  But the way i do it always just ends up in me up against an impossible colossus.  Like there's literally no way to beat them.  Weird game.

 

I like Arenas more.  At least there, i can just shoot it out on relatively even footing.  Do a lot better there...even though gunplay is presumably my weakness.  Most of the maps still allow enough leeway to outflank enemies and get extra shots in before they can adjust.

[DreamKid]

11 hours ago, Tugboat said:

With Apex...i find i almost always shoot first and almost always from behind.  And then still die.  And it feels kinda bad.  Land half a dozen shots or whatever, multiple shots from a sniper rifle.  Just feel like they should be dead.  Then they turn around in their gold armor and murder me.

Yea, it's just not a game that is ever going to reward anyone who exclusively excels at sniping or flanking. Even if you headshot all 3 members of an enemy team or dump a full clip into one of them by surprise up close.... odds are you won't knock/kill anyone of them in that instant. Apex gun fights almost always come down to short-mid range battles that last 2-3x longer than any other BRs. 

Apex is essentially the market counter to games like Counterstrike, Valorant, or Tarkov. Where fights are ended with a couple bullets. Then games like CoD and BF are in the middle with average TTKs, unless you're playing their hardcore mode.  

11 hours ago, Tugboat said:

No radar, no mercy.  Just figuring out where the enemy is and booping them.  Fit my gaming style perfectly.

From your described preferences I'd say you might enjoy playing Tarkov, if you haven't already. 

11 hours ago, Tugboat said:

I like Arenas more.  At least there, i can just shoot it out on relatively even footing.  Do a lot better there...even though gunplay is presumably my weakness.  Most of the maps still allow enough leeway to outflank enemies and get extra shots in before they can adjust.

That's surprising. Most people hated Arenas, and it's been gone for over a year. Replaced by the beloved Gun Run, Control, and TDM rotation. 

[Tugboat]

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

Yea, it's just not a game that is ever going to reward anyone who exclusively excels at sniping or flanking. Even if you headshot all 3 members of an enemy team or dump a full clip into one of them by surprise up close.... odds are you won't knock/kill anyone of them in that instant. Apex gun fights almost always come down to short-mid range battles that last 2-3x longer than any other BRs. 

Apex is essentially the market counter to games like Counterstrike, Valorant, or Tarkov. Where fights are ended with a couple bullets. Then games like CoD and BF are in the middle with average TTKs, unless you're playing their hardcore mode.  

From your described preferences I'd say you might enjoy playing Tarkov, if you haven't already. 

That's surprising. Most people hated Arenas, and it's been gone for over a year. Replaced by the beloved Gun Run, Control, and TDM rotation. 

 

Yeah.  It's frustrating for me.  It just really doesn't jive with my play style or (very minimal) strengths.  Or my very intermittent gaming habits these days.  Not something you can just pick up and crush if you're rusty because you haven't played in months.  A ton of quick twitch muscle memory aspect to it.

Especially with the insane movement speed and the various movement-based powers.  Which turn pretty much every gunfight from an ambush into a zany dance party.  At least things like Battlefield used to have pretty harsh movement penalties for accuracy/bloom.  Encouraged you to post up and unload, duck back to cover, repeat.  Sorta "shoot 'n scoot".  Rather than, "shoot while scooting" like Apex.

 

I probably would like Tarkov.  I've seen some stuff from it and thought it looked pretty cool.  Unfortunately, i don't really do PC gaming much.  I spend too much of my life already chained to a mouse and keyboard.  So when i (rarely these days) do videogames...it's more...something where i want to get away from that.  Just sink into the couch with a controller and a TV and either just dive into some single-player game that i can play the way i want to, or basically just shoot the **** with some friends.  Which is why i end up with Apex in the first place.  Because it's cross-platform and free, so it's kind of the easiest most accessible option to bring a lot of people of varying gaming abilities together.  But **** if spectating others doesn't make it super clear that PC mouse and keyboard players are at a huge advantage in the game.  😆

[DreamKid]

37 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

But **** if spectating others doesn't make it super clear that PC mouse and keyboard players are at a huge advantage in the game.  😆

Mouse and Keyboard players have an advantage when it comes to movement, looting, abilities, and long range shooting. On controller though we get aim assist(0.6 on console and 0.4 on PC), which is a game changer. Most Apex Pros eventually switch over to controller because of that reality. 

So I think the learning curve is easier for MnK players but controller players have higher ceilings.

[Tugboat]

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

Mouse and Keyboard players have an advantage when it comes to movement, looting, abilities, and long range shooting. On controller though we get aim assist(0.6 on console and 0.4 on PC), which is a game changer. Most Apex Pros eventually switch over to controller because of that reality. 

So I think the learning curve is easier for MnK players but controller players have higher ceilings.

That seems kind of counterintuitive to me.  Unless we're talking about the absolute extremes of the elite of the thing.

Mouse and Keyboard has a much higher initial learning curve threshold.  Controllers are just easier and more intuitive to pick up and use, and like you said..."aim assist" helps.  But those movement, looting, abilities, and long range shooting advantages just seem pretty massive when you spectate players who are obviously taking advantage of that.  At a just...normal public game level.  The 

 

I mean...it's not like "aim assist" is just a lock on feature.  It's just a magnet that slows when you drag crosshairs across an enemy.  Once you start getting into the PC world though, there are almost inevitably going to be mods that give the advantages of both i'd imagine.  But i really don't know.  I certainly don't pay attention to the world of "Pro Gaming" at all.  lol.  Maybe the length of engagements makes that disproportionately advantageous to be able to just continue tracking and dumping ammo into an opponent just a little bit better?

 

One of the guys i play with is probably verging on that sort of "Pro" territory.  In that he's at least a semi-pro of some sort with other games at least.  He just obliterates things whether he's playing on console with a controller, or PC with a mouse and keyboard.  But in the middleground that is normal public lobbies...the mouse and keyboard thing just seems to provide so many huge advantages in movement that it looks kind of unfair.

 

I wonder if part of the apparent "Pro" sort of "meta" shifting to controllers isn't partly just a group migration thing?  Controller players move differently than Mouse and Keyboard players.  So if the balance tips, maybe it makes sense to fight same with same?  Seems like the advantages of "aim assist" probably magnify against other controller players?

 

In any case.  My experience has been that mouse and keyboard players are very obvious, especially when spectating.  And are almost always at the top of any given lobby.  But that's just experience from the low end of the totem pole.

[DreamKid]

8 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

That seems kind of counterintuitive to me.  Unless we're talking about the absolute extremes of the elite of the thing.

Mouse and Keyboard has a much higher initial learning curve threshold.  Controllers are just easier and more intuitive to pick up and use, and like you said..."aim assist" helps.  But those movement, looting, abilities, and long range shooting advantages just seem pretty massive when you spectate players who are obviously taking advantage of that.  At a just...normal public game level.

I think the mechanics of Apex specifically lend themselves to MnK, so there's less learning or adapting involved when an MnK player first picks up the game(Making the assumption both players have experience playing shooters on their respective inputs). For controller players however, you need to get used to shield swapping, abilities which aren't present in many console BRs, healing, tracking vertically and on non linear paths, etc- mechanically it's just a much harder transition imo. 

So I don't think your eyes are deceiving you, spectating MnK players in lower level pub games will definitely showcase smooth gameplay. It reaches a certain point though, around high end Diamond, Masters, and then finally Pred ranked lobbies, where unless you're in the top 1-5% of MnK users.... you're going to have a rough time.

36 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I mean...it's not like "aim assist" is just a lock on feature.  It's just a magnet that slows when you drag crosshairs across an enemy.  Once you start getting into the PC world though, there are almost inevitably going to be mods that give the advantages of both i'd imagine.  But i really don't know.  I certainly don't pay attention to the world of "Pro Gaming" at all.  lol.  Maybe the length of engagements makes that disproportionately advantageous to be able to just continue tracking and dumping ammo into an opponent just a little bit better?

It really just comes down to as I mentioned earlier the frequency of battles ending up in short-mid range encounters, where controllers are strongest because of aim assist. With the fast paced movement, visual clutter from abilities, and general stress of the moment you're going to be aided that much more by tracking assisted by a machine and not solely reliant on your brain/reflexes. 

Here's a good quick quote -'That reason being 0ms direction switching due to the rotational aim assist in apex. For reference, unless you're able to perfectly predict someone's strafe, you'll take 100-200ms to react to the direction change every moment of a fight.'

Essentially, an element of human error is removed or significantly minimized by using controller.

50 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I wonder if part of the apparent "Pro" sort of "meta" shifting to controllers isn't partly just a group migration thing?  Controller players move differently than Mouse and Keyboard players.  So if the balance tips, maybe it makes sense to fight same with same?  Seems like the advantages of "aim assist" probably magnify against other controller players?

It mostly just started with the top MnK players being upset they were losing to controller players in ALGS(Apex's pro series). ImperialHal(Apex's most famous pro and streamer) switching over from MnK despite being arguably the best player on the game already with that input, was a symbolic nail in the coffin for the discussion. 

Some pros who aren't comfortable switching to controller(either mechanically or believe it or not- philosophically) remain, but they're definitely a dying breed.

[Tugboat]

52 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

I think the mechanics of Apex specifically lend themselves to MnK, so there's less learning or adapting involved when an MnK player first picks up the game(Making the assumption both players have experience playing shooters on their respective inputs). For controller players however, you need to get used to shield swapping, abilities which aren't present in many console BRs, healing, tracking vertically and on non linear paths, etc- mechanically it's just a much harder transition imo. 

So I don't think your eyes are deceiving you, spectating MnK players in lower level pub games will definitely showcase smooth gameplay. It reaches a certain point though, around high end Diamond, Masters, and then finally Pred ranked lobbies, where unless you're in the top 1-5% of MnK users.... you're going to have a rough time.

It really just comes down to as I mentioned earlier the frequency of battles ending up in short-mid range encounters, where controllers are strongest because of aim assist. With the fast paced movement, visual clutter from abilities, and general stress of the moment you're going to be aided that much more by tracking assisted by a machine and not solely reliant on your brain/reflexes. 

Here's a good quick quote -'That reason being 0ms direction switching due to the rotational aim assist in apex. For reference, unless you're able to perfectly predict someone's strafe, you'll take 100-200ms to react to the direction change every moment of a fight.'

Essentially, an element of human error is removed or significantly minimized by using controller.

It mostly just started with the top MnK players being upset they were losing to controller players in ALGS(Apex's pro series). ImperialHal(Apex's most famous pro and streamer) switching over from MnK despite being arguably the best player on the game already with that input, was a symbolic nail in the coffin for the discussion. 

Some pros who aren't comfortable switching to controller(either mechanically or believe it or not- philosophically) remain, but they're definitely a dying breed.

 

Professional videogaming remains such a wild amazonian wilderness to me.  I just don't get it.  I've never got it.  I always competed in athletics and mostly physical contact team sports.  That's what i gravitated toward.  So i always just surmise that it's a completely different set of aptitudes that lead someone to that Pro Gamer direction.

But it's so hard to relate to that.  I'm so many tiers below it and generally don't even care.  lol.  I just hate when a matchmaking system puts me up against those people, and i get predictably wrecked.  Could've saved us all the time and just quite early.

 

Which is weird, because i really was never afraid of any lobby in the games i was actually alright at.  But APEX seems to very rapidly go from "alright these fights are winnable" to "why am i even wasting my time with this?" very quickly.  Depending on the lobby.

 

But heck...i like Arenas and nobody else did apparently.  I still can't fathom the idea that it was nixed that long ago...but thinking back, last time i played was "control" because i was told it's like Battlefield.  lol.  So i guess that sums that up.