AlexGreen#20 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, rcon14 said: Ed Oliver is a pseudo-EDGE guy, folks. The dislike for Hakeem Butler on this website makes no sense to me. The guy is 6'5'' and suddenly he's just Ramses Barden. Ed Oliver This site is heavily influenced by Palmy's dislike for tall receivers FWIW. Plus Butler hasn't been considered in that range by most until recently. Basically the mock version of what happened with Randall in real life. Oliver is just a little height deficient. That should at least make us stop and consider how that game plays out the edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Ed Oliver This site is heavily influenced by Palmy's dislike for tall receivers FWIW. Plus Butler hasn't been considered in that range by most until recently. Basically the mock version of what happened with Randall in real life. Oliver is just a little height deficient. That should at least make us stop and consider how that game plays out the edge I get that at some point a WR is probably too tall, but it's not like other 6'5'' WRs haven't been good. A good chunk of draft twitter has been big on Hakeem Butler for months, but "big draft" has been moving him up recently. I get the height questions as a pseudo-edge for Oliver, but I'm just not sure they're going to matter much, especially given the scheme diversity you're going to get with both he and Za'Darious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Ed Oliver This site is heavily influenced by Palmy's dislike for tall receivers FWIW. Oliver is just a little height deficient. That should at least make us stop and consider how that game plays out the edge Edited your comment to remove the Butler comment. Sound advice regards Oliver....based on those thoughts: Would you (either) move up for him (?) or take him at 12 if there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Just now, rcon14 said: I get that at some point a WR is probably too tall, but it's not like other 6'5'' WRs haven't been good. A good chunk of draft twitter has been big on Hakeem Butler for months, but "big draft" has been moving him up recently. I get the height questions as a pseudo-edge for Oliver, but I'm just not sure they're going to matter much, especially given the scheme diversity you're going to get with both he and Za'Darious. And how much if the board do you think is into draft Twitter vs big draft? Don't talk to me about the ability to platoon a guy I'm drafting at 12. I get that he can play at 3T, but that's not a long term answer at Edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said: And how much if the board do you think is into draft Twitter vs big draft? Don't talk to me about the ability to platoon a guy I'm drafting at 12. I get that he can play at 3T, but that's not a long term answer at Edge. It's not platooning with Oliver, it's that you have schematic versatility to align guys wherever you'd like to align them. I have no worries about Oliver at EDGE just because he's 6'2''. If you do, I'm not sure how to help you get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 22 minutes ago, rcon14 said: The dislike for Hakeem Butler on this website makes no sense to me. The guy is 6'5'' and suddenly he's just Ramses Barden. Saw a lot of ISU games this year and he's wildly inconsistent. The weaknesses Zierlein put on the combine site below spell it out for me. Lacks short-area quickness to beat press Gets wired to corners in early stages of the route Route running is extremely telegraphed on levels 1 and 2 Rolls into breaks with excessive gather steps Labored and heavy getting out of breaks Drops on drops on drops Body catcher suffers from concentration lapses Catch radius doesn't guarantee he'll bring it in. We need a slot WR, not another boundary guy. I still don't think Oliver is a good fit for our defense as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Joe said: Saw a lot of ISU games this year and he's wildly inconsistent. The weaknesses Zierlein put on the combine site below spell it out for me. Lacks short-area quickness to beat press Gets wired to corners in early stages of the route Route running is extremely telegraphed on levels 1 and 2 Rolls into breaks with excessive gather steps Labored and heavy getting out of breaks Drops on drops on drops Body catcher suffers from concentration lapses Catch radius doesn't guarantee he'll bring it in. We need a slot WR, not another boundary guy. I still don't think Oliver is a good fit for our defense as well. I unequivocally disagree that we need a slot WR. EQ, Allison, Adams, and MVS are all perfectly capable of playing that slot role. I'm not sure what to tell you if you think the best defensive player in the draft isn't a good fit for the defense. You make the defense fit that player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 I love the trade up for Oliver. I love Butler, but what makes me nervous is that he does everything right in general with his hands, he just doesn't catch it all of the time. There are some things that you can't teach in the NFL. I'm not as big of a fan of CGJ, I'd rather have Savage; but I can't complain. Knox seems like more of a day 3 guy to me; there are other TEs I prefer but like the CGJ pick I can't complain. Scharping and Wren are good pick ups - I'm wondering if Wren doesn't go higher. Sanders I could see being a Rd. 2 pick. He has really nailed the offseason. I don't believe Tell is on our board due to his seeming disinterest while playing football. I know nothing about the other guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 minute ago, rcon14 said: It's not platooning with Oliver, it's that you have schematic versatility to align guys wherever you'd like to align them. I have no worries about Oliver at EDGE just because he's 6'2''. If you do, I'm not sure how to help you get there. Both he and Smith are gonna be at their best at 3T in the pressure look. That's gonna ding his value for me, not significantly, you can play more than one 3T in a look but Daniels is already at one of those spots. That's the biggest problem I have with Oliver on this team. Can you justify putting Daniels on the bench to play this dude in his best spot? Cause that's what it's gonna take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 Just now, AlexGreen#20 said: Both he and Smith are gonna be at their best at 3T in the pressure look. That's gonna ding his value for me, not significantly, you can play more than one 3T in a look but Daniels is already at one of those spots. That's the biggest problem I have with Oliver on this team. Can you justify putting Daniels on the bench to play this dude in his best spot? Cause that's what it's gonna take. I can justify putting Oliver on this team because Mike Daniels is not going to be a Packer in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, rcon14 said: I can justify putting Oliver on this team because Mike Daniels is not going to be a Packer in 2020. And that's fine, but I've seen this movie before. Guy gets drafted in the first round to play a 3T spot that can maybe kick out to the edge. Talented dude but maybe a little immature. Gets stuck behind Daniels and some more developed rushers on the edge. Isn't happy with his playing time, develops a bad attitude and busts. Reps matter in those first two years from a developmental perspective. I'm not saying Oliver is Datone Jones but that's something I'd be aware of. Additionally man, length matters on this front line. I don't care how good your pop is, you better be able to get hands off you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said: And that's fine, but I've seen this movie before. Guy gets drafted in the first round to play a 3T spot that can maybe kick out to the edge. Talented dude but maybe a little immature. Gets stuck behind Daniels and some more developed rushers on the edge. Isn't happy with his playing time, develops a bad attitude and busts. Reps matter in those first two years from a developmental perspective. I'm not saying Oliver is Datone Jones but that's something I'd be aware of. Ed Oliver is a 99th percentile athlete, Datone Jones was an 85th percentile athlete (per RAS). Also, it's important to note that Datone was drafted to play a position that virtually disappeared (5T). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Not to mention, mastering 3T or Edge in the NFL if you only concentrate on one is hard enough. You don't bring in a rookie and try to teach him both. A big difference between percentiles on paper vs the reality of the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, rcon14 said: Ed Oliver is a 99th percentile athlete, Datone Jones was an 85th percentile athlete (per RAS). Also, it's important to note that Datone was drafted to play a position that virtually disappeared (5T). Oliver's hand timed 40 was around a 4.75 Jones's official laser time was a 4.80 Oliver's 3-cone was 7.15. Jones's was 7.32 Oliver had a pretty sizeable advantage on the jumps, but he's also 3 inches shorter and had more time to practice the drills. RAS percentiles are broken as you move towards the extremes. We've had this discussion before. I'm sure Dom "Dime Defense" Capers battled hard to draft a 5T in the first round. Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon14 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 22 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Oliver's hand timed 40 was around a 4.75 Jones's official laser time was a 4.80 Oliver's 3-cone was 7.15. Jones's was 7.32 Oliver had a pretty sizeable advantage on the jumps, but he's also 3 inches shorter and had more time to practice the drills. RAS percentiles are broken as you move towards the extremes. We've had this discussion before. I'm sure Dom "Dime Defense" Capers battled hard to draft a 5T in the first round. Sure. Using Waldo scores... Oliver Mass: 96th Power: 98th Speed 40: 94th Speed 10: 93rd Agility: 91st Twitch: 83rd Datone Mass: 93rd Power: 72nd Speed 40: 76th Speed 10: 77th Agility: 64th Twitch: 65th These are not athletes that are in the same class. To insinuate otherwise makes no sense. Oliver is an all-time great athlete, Datone was an above average one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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