I'm trying to understand why we are still mocking edge rushers.

[gizmo2012]

I believe unless one of the top 10 projected picks drops the Packers will address their 3 biggest needs in the first 2 rounds = TE, S, OL. I expect rounds 3 and 4 to address Edge or DL, RB, WR.  Book it. 

[JaireAlex]

3 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

J Taylor and H Butler too

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2019/futures-hakeem-butler

Taylor is dropping from medicals and was never a fit for GB

We have a Butler in EQ. And EQ has less bust potential. Not the same but too similar to grab him. Another team will take him and work with him. I doubt he's on our board but I am definitely rooting for him.

[cannondale]

Just now, JaireAlex said:

Yeah.

Sometimes happens when 7 starters from opening day are out by year's end.

Name our starting defensive line in 2020

Name our starting Safeties this year

Name our 3rd ER (essential) in 2020

 

 

[KingOfTheNorth]

1 minute ago, JaireAlex said:

Taylor is dripping from medicals and was never a fit for GB

We have a Butler in EQ. And EQ has less bust potential. Another team will grab him and work with him. I doubt he's on our board but I am definitely rooting for him.

Where do you get these "bust potential" assessments? Are they all just opinion based, or do you have any statistics that show EQ has less "bust potential"? I have seen you reference it multiple times and have yet to see how you determine this.

[JaireAlex]

1 minute ago, cannondale said:

Name our starting defensive line in 2020

Name our starting Safeties this year

Name our 3rd ER (essential) in 2020

 

 

Every draft mock, I have us taking two DL. At the very latest, beginning in round two. And there is really no offensive guy I "have to have" or even really want in round one, Dillard included. The guys I like should go around 35ish, maybe Campbell excepted. Two should be there still, but maybe we need to cough up that 30. Preferably I use the first pick on DL, after a move down if possible.

Safeties will be addressed, but unless they love someone, Pettine clearly prefers reliability (1), versatility (2), and interchangability (3). His favorite was Leonard the UDFA. Tramon also said you need to be smart to play this D. It's simple, aggressive but more than any spot on the team, the safety needs to be smart. Amos fills the hole but I'm looking for safeties like Amos.

Christian Miller, Banogu, any number of day 2-3 guys work. The Ravens don't draft round one edge often at all. Look for more guys in that mold as that's where GB is heading. The Ravens buy cheap and sell high on olb. Just smart.

 I addressed your dire issues on D. Do we really need to wait to day three to address the neglected offense? Now my preference by far is to move down from the 12 and restock the cupboard that is bare (as Pettine has said) on both sides of the ball. But they well may have their target on a guy they love at 12.

[JaireAlex]

17 minutes ago, KingOfTheNorth said:

Where do you get these "bust potential" assessments? Are they all just opinion based, or do you have any statistics that show EQ has less "bust potential"? I have seen you reference it multiple times and have yet to see how you determine this.

1) Most teams have Butler as boom bust, round 2-3. Guys 6-5 are simply off many boards because that height rarely sees success.

2) EQ has already shown he can do it. As far as I am concerned, he has like 0 bust potential in year two. So, I am not comparing them as prospects but I am comparing EQ now vs. Butler now. No contest there.

Butler is all over boards. Almost no one in the media or the NFL does not have him as a boom/bust, maybe the biggest one in days one and two.

ON MY PART and in my view, I think he will make it. Calvin Johnson is helping him because he sees himself in Butler and just wants to help him out. But it's a tough road. It was for Johnson. He worked harder than almost anyone to become Megatron. Very few have the "want it" to succeed like CJ. I'm betting on Butler, but it's not an even odds bet at all.

GB doesn't need that body now. We do have a massive hole at slot.

[TransientTexan]

2 hours ago, JaireAlex said:

You are seriously comparing NE to anyone?

Please 

So, what do you say in answer to my points. Just, "but look at NE"? Anything else?

And Brady was sacked how many times in the playoffs?

So, Rodgers just has to learn how to not ever get sacked with horrible line play from the guards?

Truly, I don't understand what you are even trying to say here. You think the offense is ready to go to the Superbowl?

This is just ignorant. Rodgers had good tackles and a good center to make up for it. Rodgers has generally had a good OL for a number of years now. I would say even last year they were above average when you factor time-to-throw and the greater number of pass plays they called. Rodgers’ sacks would go way down if he got rid of the ball faster. No matter whether that is his fault or the receiver’s fault for not being open, it’s not on the OL.

[JaireAlex]

2 minutes ago, TransientTexan said:

This is just ignorant. Rodgers had good tackles and a good center to make up for it. Rodgers has generally had a good OL for a number of years now. I would say even last year they were above average when you factor time-to-throw and the greater number of pass plays they called. Rodgers’ sacks would go way down if he got rid of the ball faster. No matter whether that is his fault or the receiver’s fault for not being open, it’s not on the OL

So that's why they are bringing in Turner, Cole, etc.?

And it really doesn't matter. You need to help Rodgers get that ball out sooner. Guys are just not open in GB like they are for almost every team that plays us.

Just seems like the MO on this forum is that Rodgers has to excel with mediocrity. That's NOT how TT even felt. They just overvalued their own and kept digging a bigger hole on defense. Gute set this draft up for offense. Deal with it. They want to destroy teams, not make AR work harder. Idiocy!!!

In fact my point is that if you add a WR, you will reduce that time to throw. 4 solid targets >> 3 or 2. Most IMPORTANTLY the cheapest to fill (slot receiver) is what we need. I have 3 day two GB prospects and a bunch of day three. I want the best on day 2 AND a complementary (different look) best on day 3. The fact is that Green Bay really does get the best value at WR and don't skimp. Davante was undervalued by other teams -- same with most GB WRs. They are simply superior evaluators there. I don't think they are too concerned with cost while they don't want to overpay. They usually get good value.

 

Obviously, MLF is going to run the offense out of the run game to pressure off Rodgers. And he NEEDS more athletic guards for that. They are still short one.

But the attitude of we need to dig through the trash on offense is NOT EVEN how TT worked. They overrated their own. They want 2011 back and 2010/2014 on defense. They absolutely are not thinking about how Rodgers just needed to play better last year: it's all his fault.

[cannondale]

34 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Every draft mock, I have us taking two DL. At the very latest, beginning in round two. And there is really no offensive guy I "have to have" or even really want in round one, Dillard included. The guys I like should go around 35ish, maybe Campbell excepted. Two should be there still, but maybe we need to cough up that 30. Preferably I use the first pick on DL, after a move down if possible.

Safeties will be addressed, but unless they love someone, Pettine clearly prefers reliability (1), versatility (2), and interchangability (3). His favorite was Leonard the UDFA. Tramon also said you need to be smart to play this D. It's simple, aggressive but more than any spot on the team, the safety needs to be smart. Amos fills the hole but I'm looking for safeties like Amos.

Christian Miller, Banogu, any number of day 2-3 guys work. The Ravens don't draft round one edge often at all. Look for more guys in that mold as that's where GB is heading. The Ravens buy cheap and sell high on olb. Just smart.

 I addressed your dire issues on D. Do we really need to wait to day three to address the neglected offense? Now my preference by far is to move down from the 12 and restock the cupboard that is bare (as Pettine has said) on both sides of the ball. But they well may have their target on a guy they love at 12.

If you find it so easy to wait till day 2 or 3 for some pretty major pieces on defense, I don't know why you feel so offended to wait the same amount of time for what will be a #2 or #3 WR. 

 

[JaireAlex]

5 minutes ago, cannondale said:

If you find it so easy to wait till day 2 or 3 for some pretty major pieces on defense, I don't know why you feel so offended to wait the same amount of time for what will be a #2 or #3 WR. 

 

,.............except

 

I did

I'd love Campbell at 35 or Isabella at 60. Grab another day 3. 2 slot receivers. Done.

 

What's your point? Do the Ravens burn all their ones on edge? Nope. Did Pettine? Nope. 

And literally, you cannot read. At all. I have suggested again and again that we split the two ones on D and offense. Do you have a problem with that?

In fact I said I am "ok" with using 12,30,44 on D as long as we use the others on offense. I'd far prefer splitting those. My latest mock has us taking THREE on defense day two, one offense day one. But actually I really want a big on D round one. Tillery, Lawrence, or Simmons are my picks. I feel like that is 80% how our first pick will go, probably after move down.

 

[cannondale]

22 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

,.............except

 

I did

I'd love Campbell at 35 or Isabella at 60. Grab another day 3. 2 slot receivers. Done.

 

What's your point? Do the Ravens burn all their ones on edge? Nope. Did Pettine? Nope. 

Did the Patriots burn a First Rounder on a Hall of Fame QB ? Nope. 

We got Donald Driver in the 7th Round. Robert Brooks and Freeman in the 3rd. No need to waste pick #35 on one

You can find outlier excuses for everything. I'm more interested in the norm. Jim Leonhard is not the norm. If he was, we wouldn't be going on 20 years without a decent Safety and having to sign someone else's. Starting caliber 3T's don't grow on trees. Neither do ER's. The longer you wait in the draft to find those - the lesser chance of success. That's just a fact. And when you are a year away from HAVING to have them, I find it hard to worry about who our #4 WR is

[JaireAlex]

6 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Did the Patriots burn a First Rounder on a Hall of Fame QB ? Nope. 

We got Donald Driver in the 7th Round. Robert Brooks and Freeman in the 3rd. No need to waste pick #35 on one

You can find outlier excuses for everything. I'm more interested in the norm. Jim Leonhard is not the norm. If he was, we wouldn't be going on 20 years without a decent Safety. Starting caliber 3T's don't grow on trees. Neither do ER's. The longer you wait in the draft to find those - the lesser chance of success. That's just a fact. 

So. I am ignorant and an idiot for not waiting til day three to address offense? Gotcha. 

And we just got  the Smiths and Amos so we could spend high picks on those same spots?

You are being totally dishonest. You won't say when or upon whom you'll spend anything on offense.

Meanwhile it's not even a doubt that the Packers are deciding whether or not to spend a two on Isabella. They haven't spent a two on WR since 2014. They almost grabbed Dez Bryant at 21 in 2010 and did use a two on Cobb with a much more stacked and proven WR room.

Starting caliber ERs: Z Smith was round 4, P Smith was round 2. But facts are not your forte.

Look at the Ravens draft strategy. Our coach spent many years there as well as the new head of scouting 

Facts, history, current FAs mean nothing to you. You must twist my words in the worst way and don't admit or say what you will spend on offense while Gute will be spending a lot more than in your worst nightmares.

[Cadmus]

What this guy fails to understand is how few snaps will be left over once you account Za'Darius, Clark, Daniels, Lowry and in all probability Wilkerson. 

They aren't giving up on Adams and Lancaster either. They're going to give Looney and probably Brown a fair shake as well I'd suspect. 

He lives in his own little world because that's where he's most comfortable. 

Best DL Class EVER though guys... Watch out. -Arrigo heard so from his sources-

[Cadmus]

We had 3 EDGEs signed past 2019 this time last year and no one expected Fackrell to take that Year 3 Jump. 

How many did we select in the 2018 NFL Draft? 

Can't admit that though because --> 

--> That would absolutely torpedo your argument <--

[cannondale]

1 minute ago, JaireAlex said:

So. I am ignorant and an idiot for not waiting til day three to address offense? Gotcha. 

And we just got  the Smiths and Amos so we could spend high picks on those same spots?

You are being totally dishonest. You won't say when or upon whom you'll spend anything on offense.

Meanwhile it's not even a doubt that the Packers are deciding whether or not to spend a two on Isabella. They haven't spent a two on WR since 2014. They almost grabbed Dez Bryant at 21 in 2010 and did use a two on Cobb with a much more stacked and proven WR room.

Starting caliber ERs: Z Smith was round 4, P Smith was round 2. But facts are not your forte.

Look at the Ravens draft strategy. Our coach spent many years there as well as the new head of scouting 

Facts, history, current FAs mean nothing to you. You must twist my words in the worst way and don't admit or say what you will spend on offense while Gute will be spending a lot more than in your worst nightmares.

I only play the game how you play it. You list outliers to make a point. I did the same just to show how silly it is. Stop with the UDFA is fine at Safety for example. We've tried that for 20 years. It doesn't work. We need 2 3T's in for 2020. That's a fact. Fackrell is gone after this year. That's a fact. Do we need more than a journeyman to replace him since ZSmith will play some DL. Yes. That's a fact. Do I draft a WR in the First Round ? No. When do I draft one ? I don't know. It's like need #9 on the list.