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AcGbPacker

I'm trying to understand why we are still mocking edge rushers.

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Packers just invested millions in the edge rusher position, why would we draft a player who isn't going to start right away that high. We have other needs. I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted one of those tight ends from Iowa, but not at 12. There are only a few positions you draft that high and te is not one of them. The line can be addressed in later rounds. Oliver is going to be a stud. If he is there at 12 take him. I would like to trade back and fill some positions of need. Like safety, defensive tackle, another corner. Please help me out what do you think.

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Because you NEVER have enough pass rushers.the value of a third pass rusher > several current needs.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said:

Because you NEVER have enough pass rushers.the value of a third pass rusher > several current needs.

This is the answer. Lock it up mods! 

Edit: I'm not being serious about the lock op just to be clear since you're new and I don't want it to come off seriously.

Edited by Norm

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3 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said:

Because you NEVER have enough pass rushers.the value of a third pass rusher > several current needs.

Agree.

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If the rook is any good, he'll be battling Fackrell for reps in the pressure package, and those edge rushers rotate constantly. They shouldn't be playing more than 70% of snaps.

Unless you really love Fackrell, there's snaps to be had, even assuming everyone is healthy.

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Plus the Smiths are only on like 2-3 deals, realistically,  and if all goes according to plan then they won't be in a position in the draft to land a quality edge rusher in the next few years.

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13 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

If the rook is any good, he'll be battling Fackrell for reps in the pressure package, and those edge rushers rotate constantly. They shouldn't be playing more than 70% of snaps.

Unless you really love Fackrell, there's snaps to be had, even assuming everyone is healthy.

Plus Fack is in a contract year and Z is a 3T in most sub looks. So realistically for 2020, an EDGE drafted this year is probably a "starter." 

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ZSmith will get reps on the DL where he is pretty damn good. Fackrell is done after the season. Pretty simple if you look at the depth chart

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Having a sexy rotation of pass rushers is invaluable. Though I would take a better DL like Oliver over one if he somehow makes it to 12.

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52 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

If the rook is any good, he'll be battling Fackrell for reps in the pressure package, and those edge rushers rotate constantly. They shouldn't be playing more than 70% of snaps.

Unless you really love Fackrell, there's snaps to be had, even assuming everyone is healthy.

I like Fackrell well enough, but he had a weird year - he had what, 16 pressures, and that resulted in 10.5 sacks, so he will probably fall back down into the 7 sack range (which still isn't bad), since on avg pass rusher only get sacks on about 45% of their pressures. He can certainly step it up, but he only makes 648k, so he's dirt cheap. You have 2 high-dollar edge guys, but IIRC their contracts are reasonably cap-friendly, so you could ideally grab an edge who falls in either the first or second round and have a TON of pass rushers (not even counting Clark and Daniels) for not much more than it is costing right now. 

 

Because, as everyone else above said, you can never have enough of them. 

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1 hour ago, AcGbPacker said:

Packers just invested millions in the edge rusher position, why would we draft a player who isn't going to start right away that high. We have other needs. I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted one of those tight ends from Iowa, but not at 12. There are only a few positions you draft that high and te is not one of them. The line can be addressed in later rounds. Oliver is going to be a stud. If he is there at 12 take him. I would like to trade back and fill some positions of need. Like safety, defensive tackle, another corner. Please help me out what do you think.

2019 EDGE

Z SMith, P Smith, Fackrell, ?????

 

2020 EDGE

Z Smith, P Smith, ?????, ????

Looking ahead is always the prudent thing to do.  People need to remember that draft picks are not just for the immediate upcoming year, but for the future as well

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, AcGbPacker said:

Packers just invested millions in the edge rusher position, why would we draft a player who isn't going to start right away that high. We have other needs. I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted one of those tight ends from Iowa, but not at 12. There are only a few positions you draft that high and te is not one of them. The line can be addressed in later rounds. Oliver is going to be a stud. If he is there at 12 take him. I would like to trade back and fill some positions of need. Like safety, defensive tackle, another corner. Please help me out what do you think.

Perfectly reasonable thought. Many answers have already been given, for example Z.Smith playing 3 tech sometimes. The loss of Perry and Matthews means there are a lot of snaps to allocate to others.

It isn't often that the Packers have a shot at one of the (potentially) high quality pass rushers like Ferrell, Burns, Sweat. Most years there wouldn't be a single top-class prospect available (when the Packers draft) that is as good as any of the above three. I got excited about the possibility of Landry or Davenport last year, but I don't think either of them are at the level of these guys. So BVA (best value available) is a consideration, since it is such an unusual year for depth and quality of talent at this position.

Also worth noting is that a high quality player at this position is (as you have seen with the Smiths) is expensive. The best guys get $15-$20m pa, while a first round rookie  is on a tiny fraction of that for five years (if the 5th year option is taken). So positional cost is a factor.

Quality depth is important, but that is the same as at every position, so nothing different here.

Pass rush CAN come from other spots besides OLB. A penetrating type DL guy can get pressure just as well and more directly through the middle of the O line and is a credible alternative. That puts guys like Oliver, Wilkins, Simmons and Tillery in play (maybe Gary as well, though he is a bit of a tweener). Maybe even the Packers like the idea of a top ILB guy like the Devins being used for blitzing.

My current best guess for #12 is actually somewhat even odds between an OT (Taylor or Dillard), DL (Wilkins, Oliver), Edge (Ferrell, Burns, Sweat). Trade down is also on the table, while imo trade up seems less likely.

Edited by OneTwoSixFive

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In the Pettine system, pressure is expected to come from DEs, ILBs and safeties as much as OLBs. 

 

Personally, I would prefer a player who is on the field more than just probable passing plays. I want a defender who is going to force those 3rd and longs because he stuffed a RB on first and then flattened a WR on a sweep on 2nd down.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

Perfectly reasonable thought. Many answers have already been given (for example Z.Smith playing 3 tech sometimes. The loss of Perry and Matthews means there are a lot of snaps to allocate to others.

It isn't often that the Packers have a shot at one of the (potentially) high quality pass rushers like Ferrell, Burns, Sweat. Most years there wouldn't be a single prospect available (when the Packers draft) that is as good as any of the above three. I got excited about the possibility of Landry or Davenport last year, but I don't think either of them are at the level of these guys. So BVA (best value available) is a consideration, since it is such an unusual year for depth and quality of talent at this position.

Also worth noting is that a high quality player at this position is (as you have seen with the Smiths) is expensive. The best guys get $15-$20m pa, while a first round rookie  is on a tiny fraction of that for five years (if the 5th year option is taken). So positional cost is a factor.

Quality depth is important, but that is the same as at every position, so nothing different here.

Pass rush CAN come from other spots besides OLB. A penetrating type DL guy can get pressure just as well and more directly through the middle of the O line and is a credible alternative. That puts guys like Oliver, Wilkins, Simmons and Tillery in play (maybe Gary as well, though he is a bit of a tweener). Maybe even the Packers like the idea of a top ILB guy like the Devins being used for blitzing.

My current best guess for #12 is actually somewhat even odds between an OT (Taylor or Dillard), DL (Wilkins, Oliver), Edge (Ferrell, Burns, Sweat). Trade down is also on the table, while imo trade up seems less likely.

You keep putting that Ferrell guy up there at 12!!!!! :)
Btw......TDN just mocked him to the Giants ! 17.......

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