I'm trying to understand why we are still mocking edge rushers.

[AlexGreen#20]

8 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Smith's are longer and more natural strength. Less twitchy types.

 

Make believe is nice, but Pettine wants three down players as he says here. The Smiths are his kind of guy. I suspect Sweat is much higher on Packers board than Burns.

But just listen to what Pettine says about how he wants to build his team and cut the total nonesense. He wants versatile guys, not specialists. He's pretty clear about what he wants and they brought them in.

They are interested in Sweat we know 

https://www.packers.com/video/mike-pettine-highlights-the-cornerstones-of-his-ideal-defense-20289503

 

Nick Perry with 35 reps of 225 and a 39" vertical has less natural strength than Zadarius Smith's 23 and 29? Nick Perry is the densest, most naturally strong dude in the damn world. For all the complaints about Perry's game, the lack of strength isn't at all one of them. Man's a damn bull.

Perry's a way way way better athlete than Smith. Smith is just a much more refined rusher with his hands. He's really good at staying clean as he runs the arc and countering with his hands. He's also consistently healthy, something Perry can't say. 

Sweat is a three down player, but why are people saying that Burns isn't?

It's nice to have scheme fit, but at some point having three similar guys is a little redundant. 

Pressure Package of P. Smith-Daniels-Z. Smith-Burns, looks quite a bit better than P. Smith-Daniels-Z. Smith-Sweat

 

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Dis you listen to what Pettine is looking for?

I'm open for an argument for Burns. But Pettine specifically says he wants both guys in the edge to be able to play SAM and be able to alternate SAM and rush and then gives all the types he's worked with that he's looking for. And the Smiths fit what he says.

It helps to with what he's looking for at safety.

You're coming to the conclusion that Sweat is a better drop guy than Burns? Not sure how you're getting there.

Even if you are, doesn't the fact that Burns is a JR3 and Sweat is a SR5 a pretty decent tie breaker?

[JaireAlex]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

Nick Perry with 35 reps of 225 and a 39" vertical has less natural strength than Zadarius Smith's 23 and 29? Nick Perry is the densest, most naturally strong dude in the damn world. For all the complaints about Perry's game, the lack of strength isn't at all one of them. Man's a damn bull.

Perry's a way way way better athlete than Smith. Smith is just a much more refined rusher with his hands. He's really good at staying clean as he runs the arc and countering with his hands. He's also consistently healthy, something Perry can't say. 

Sweat is a three down player, but why are people saying that Burns isn't?

It's nice to have scheme fit, but at some point having three similar guys is a little redundant. 

Pressure Package of P. Smith-Daniels-Z. Smith-Burns, looks quite a bit better than P. Smith-Daniels-Z. Smith-Sweat

 

Just stop for a change listening to yourself. And listen to what the DC himself says.

Perry was packed. Too tightly wound, which he was at the combine.

But it does help before bloviating to listen to Pettine because he does say what he wants. He wants versatile and multiple, on both sides. Someone who can rush and play Sam. And he says why.

Not sure why you think you know better than Pettine what he ACTUALLY wants without even listening to him.

[JaireAlex]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

You're coming to the conclusion that Sweat is a better drop guy than Burns? Not sure how you're getting there.

Even if you are, doesn't the fact that Burns is a JR3 and Sweat is a SR5 a pretty decent tie breaker?

Ummmmm Pettine doesn't mention dropping actually.

Perhaps you should just give him a chance sometime. I'm sure you know football better than him, but that doesn't mean you know what he wants better than he does 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, JaireAlex said:

Just stop for a change listening to yourself. And listen to what the DC himself says.

Perry was packed. Too tightly wound, which he was at the combine.

But it does help before bloviating to listen to Pettine because he does say what he wants. He wants versatile and multiple, on both sides. Someone who can rush and play Sam. And he says why.

Not sure why you think you know better than Pettine what he ACTUALLY wants without even listening to him.

We've got our power end, and our standard end in the Smiths.

Where is the hybrid Rush/Drop guy? Fackrell?

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Ummmmm Pettine doesn't mention dropping actually.

Perhaps you should just give him a chance sometime. I'm sure you know football better than him, but that doesn't mean you know what he wants better than he does 

No, I just watched the team last year and watched Fackrell drop a ton last year. 

[JaireAlex]

22 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

No, I just watched the team last year and watched Fackrell drop a ton last year. 

Maybe you should just watch the first five minutes of the video in which he says directly how he will build the defense and what he wants out of the edge in particular.

The Smiths fit that bill. He lays it out there. Of course Fackrell dropped back. He discussed that to, not Fackrell specifically, but on using what he had 

He wants someone who primarily plays run and rush.

Specifically he mentions  Calvin Pace, Brian Thomas, Mario Williams, Manny Lawson, and Suggs and how he used them. You I'm sure know better than I how good they were at coverage, but just what I remember that wasn't their forte. Nor the Smiths.

[rcon14]

52 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

Smith's are longer and more natural strength. Less twitchy types.

 

Make believe is nice, but Pettine wants three down players as he says here. The Smiths are his kind of guy. I suspect Sweat is much higher on Packers board than Burns.

But just listen to what Pettine says about how he wants to build his team and cut the total nonesense. He wants versatile guys, not specialists. He's pretty clear about what he wants and they brought them in.

They are interested in Sweat we know 

https://www.packers.com/video/mike-pettine-highlights-the-cornerstones-of-his-ideal-defense-20289503

 

Nick Perry has no strength problems.

Injuries are not necessarily related to strength. Injuries can be pretty random and you can also be genetically predisposed to them based upon your anatomy. You're straight-up just making things up.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, JaireAlex said:

Maybe you should just watch the first five minutes of the video in which he says directly how he will build the defense and what he wants out of the edge in particular.

The Smiths fit that bill. He lays it out there. Of course Fackrell dropped back. He discussed that to, not Fackrell specifically, but on using what he had 

He wants someone who primarily plays run and rush.

Specifically he mentions  Calvin Pace, Brian Thomas, Mario Williams, Manny Lawson, and Suggs and how he used them. You I'm sure know better than I how good they were at coverage, but just what I remember that wasn't their forte. Nor the Smiths.

Pace, Thomas, and Lawson all dropped a ton relative to their counterparts (and you could probably argue Sugggs as well based on comparisons to the other elite rushers)? I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Yes, his front line guys are frequently asked to play a gap over, but frequently we've got one of our edge rushers not on the line.

[JaireAlex]

6 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Pace, Thomas, and Lawson all dropped a ton relative to their counterparts (and you could probably argue Sugggs as well based on comparisons to the other elite rushers)? I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Yes, his front line guys are frequently asked to play a gap over, but frequently we've got one of our edge rushers not on the line.

What he says.

Basically it's a four-two nickel base with one olb kicking inside/back. He wants both guys able to do that on any down to be unpredictable.

Don't see a place for a specialist rusher since he wants guys as versatile as possible to be interchangable and less predictable. The video is about what he aims to build and how he will use the parts he has til he gets there.

I don't see the fit for Burns here......like at all. But maybe he's a good SAM. Idk

[rcon14]

1 minute ago, JaireAlex said:

What he says.

Basically it's a four-two nickel base with one olb kicking inside/back. He wants both guys able to do that on any down to be unpredictable.

Don't see a place for a specialist rusher since he wants guys as versatile as possible to be interchangable and less predictable. The video is about what he aims to build.

I don't see the fit for Burns here......like at all. But maybe he's a good SAM. Idk

"Pettine wants guys to be able to rush and drop"

/Burns provides elite production as a pass rusher in college
/Burns has elite testing traits
/Burns looks great in space movement at combine drills
 

"I don't see the fit"

Just unbelievable.

[MaximusGluteus]

1 hour ago, rcon14 said:

Any research to support this claim?

Considering the source, I think you already know the answer to that one.

[JaireAlex]

9 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

"Pettine wants guys to be able to rush and drop"

/Burns provides elite production as a pass rusher in college
/Burns has elite testing traits
/Burns looks great in space movement at combine drills
 

"I don't see the fit"

Just unbelievable.

Nice. Except I didn't say that. Nor did Pettine in his talk. He did say he wants both to be able to play SAM. He wants rush/run stopping lbs. But what did I miss in what Pettine said when speaking about changing the team and looking for guys like the Smiths?

If you listen to five minutes of Pettine he says he wants BOTH olbs to play SAM. He mentions Clay's ability to play inside. Nothing about coverage.

As far as I can remember only one of his edge were great in coverage. Must be solid to great against the run though. Lawson was pretty poor at coverage IIRC

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, JaireAlex said:

Nice. Except I didn't say that. Nor did Pettine in his talk. He did say he wants both to be able to play SAM. He wants rush/run stopping lbs. But what did I miss in what Pettine said when speaking about changing the team and looking for guys like the Smiths?

If you listen to five minutes of Pettine he says he wants BOTH olbs to play SAM. He mentions Clay's ability to play inside. Nothing about coverage.

As far as I can remember only one of his edge were great in coverage. Must be solid to great against the run though. Lawson was pretty poor at coverage IIRC

The Sam is dropping with some relative frequency.

That's what you don't appear to be grasping.

[JaireAlex]

9 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

The Sam is dropping with some relative frequency.

That's what you don't appear to be grasping.

Pettine had only one great coverage lb. But Lawson?

And you don't seem to grasp what Pettine has explicitly stated repeatedly on the run game. But you know better what he wants that what he says he wants.

Burns was a huge liability in the run game in college. Much like similar guys to Burns. That can work in some schemes. I don't think that is at all what Pettine wants there. Pettine has said so. So. It's really not my opinion vs. anyone. It's just totally ignoring what Pettine explicitly has stated and done and whom they brought in as FAs.

But if Burns is great against the run, I am happy to hear it. I saw the opposite and his coach said they had to hide him in the run game