I'm trying to understand why we are still mocking edge rushers.

[Leader]

Brian Burns is a special prospect with dynamic range, explosive qualities and terrific length/polish as a pass rusher. Burns brings one of the finest pass rushing skill sets to the table in recent years and his explosiveness and developed hand usage should help him provide his team with impact pass rush from day one. Burns would be well served to fill out his frame to be a more well-rounded player but he's got game-changing qualities.

Billed as a speed/bend pass rusher, Burns is certainly capable of winning that way, but that title seems to minimize how well-rounded his whole pass rush skill set is. Sharp with his hands and diverse with his rush plan, Burns can beat tackles inside or outside and has terrific mental processing to take advantage of what opponents gives him. His weigh-ins and size-adjusted athletic testing will be important, but his tape, traits and production say first round prospect despite his lack of an elite first step.

Burns is a refined pass rusher that dominated power five competition throughout his college career. While it's easy to love his high-variance, technically refined and gifted pass rushing skill set, Burns is a more versatile defender than he is often credited for. He can win from a three-point or stand-up position with playmaking ability against the run, in coverage and attacking the quarterback. His blend of length, flexibility, technical refinement, football IQ and burst serve as a strong foundation for him to become a dynamic playmaking defender in the NFL.

@JaireAlex - just keep reading these TDN comments and you'll overcome your.............reticence

 

[JaireAlex]

43 minutes ago, Leader said:

Brian Burns is a special prospect with dynamic range, explosive qualities and terrific length/polish as a pass rusher. Burns brings one of the finest pass rushing skill sets to the table in recent years and his explosiveness and developed hand usage should help him provide his team with impact pass rush from day one. Burns would be well served to fill out his frame to be a more well-rounded player but he's got game-changing qualities.

Billed as a speed/bend pass rusher, Burns is certainly capable of winning that way, but that title seems to minimize how well-rounded his whole pass rush skill set is. Sharp with his hands and diverse with his rush plan, Burns can beat tackles inside or outside and has terrific mental processing to take advantage of what opponents gives him. His weigh-ins and size-adjusted athletic testing will be important, but his tape, traits and production say first round prospect despite his lack of an elite first step.

Burns is a refined pass rusher that dominated power five competition throughout his college career. While it's easy to love his high-variance, technically refined and gifted pass rushing skill set, Burns is a more versatile defender than he is often credited for. He can win from a three-point or stand-up position with playmaking ability against the run, in coverage and attacking the quarterback. His blend of length, flexibility, technical refinement, football IQ and burst serve as a strong foundation for him to become a dynamic playmaking defender in the NFL.

@JaireAlex - just keep reading these TDN comments and you'll overcome your.............reticence

 

Indeed.

The fascination with Burns is not limited to FF.

 

And a couple teams like SF or Seattle might take a real strong look. But his appeal is limited. You need a plan for him as I said. And he will work.

With Pettine I am 99% sure we are permanently moving in a different direction on edge. But I shouldn't be so hard on the dreamers. I've wanted an edge pick myself for five years now. But with Pettine, ALL my concerns about pressure are gone. His strategy is ten times simpler and easier to draft for.......and more effective. It maximizes what's available these days.

That means: MORE WEAPONS for Arod. Getting that line TOP FIVE. Becoming a top four offense and making it to the final four like the top four offenses did last year. Chicago, Baltimore, Minnesota, Chargers, in short DEFENSE is no longer king.

Time to move into the 2020s.

[MacReady]

Just now, JaireAlex said:

Chicago, Baltimore, Minnesota, Chargers, in short DEFENSE is no longer king.

The New England Patriots have been a top 10 scoring defense all but three years in Brady's entire career and they just held the number 2 scoring offense to three points.  They were also the number one scoring defense the last time they won.  It's embarrassing that you think this. 

[moretti19]

36 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

The New England Patriots have been a top 10 scoring defense all but three years in Brady's entire career and they just held the number 2 scoring offense to three points.  They were also the number one scoring defense the last time they won.  It's embarrassing that you think this. 

How much of that can be attributed to the Patriots playing from the lead because of their offense? 

[JaireAlex]

48 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

The New England Patriots have been a top 10 scoring defense all but three years in Brady's entire career and they just held the number 2 scoring offense to three points.  They were also the number one scoring defense the last time they won.  It's embarrassing that you think this. 

I totally agree on NE. They are the one D that made it but only because Dee Ford stepped offsides.

I don't think defense is unimportant, just that (a) offense is more important, (b) it's much much easier to fix this year, in one year, than defense which is ongoing, (c) it's clear that GB wants to be a joggernaut again, (d) we have Rodgers, (e) we have to protect Rodgers who had the 3rd most sacks and most throw aways and was playing injured and is getting older.

Please, tell me what I'm missing. You have the most talented player in the league but you want to ignore the probs there. I absolutely think this defense can be top ten next without taking a single edge guy next year and the team is built to resupply edge in rounds 2-5.

So, what am I missing?

Edit: you're contention is pretty absurd given that the top four offenses made it. Period. End of story. There is doubtless a shift with rules changes and play changes.

Please don't make it sound like I want a number 32 defense. I'm saying we should address offense immediately. I think the defense is easily capable of top ten. We addressed the massive holes in FA PRECISELY because the draft offers some immediate and long term  help on offense.

It was by far the worst GB offense in 12 years. (While I do think very highly of the rookie receivers, more than most and that they will be a big part of GBs resurgence.)

That is "embarrassing".

[MacReady]

Just now, JaireAlex said:

Edit: you're contention is pretty absurd given that the top four offenses made it. Period. End if story. There is doubtless a shift with rules changes and play changes.

And yet the best defense out of those four offenses won the Super Bowl?  Interesting. 

[JaireAlex]

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

And yet the best defense out of those four offenses won the Super Bowl?  Interesting. 

You are seriously comparing NE to anyone?

Please 

So, what do you say in answer to my points. Just, "but look at NE"? Anything else?

And Brady was sacked how many times in the playoffs?

So, Rodgers just has to learn how to not ever get sacked with horrible line play from the guards?

Truly, I don't understand what you are even trying to say here. You think the offense is ready to go to the Superbowl?

[MacReady]

Just now, JaireAlex said:

You are seriously comparing NE to anyone?

Please 

So, what do you say in answer to my points. Just, "but look at NE"? Anything else?

Tell me the last time a team won a Super Bowl without a top post season defense or stop arguing with me because I'm busy and you're bothering me. 

[JaireAlex]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

Tell me the last time a team won a Super Bowl without a top post season offense or stop arguing with me because I'm busy and you're bothering me. 

Isn't that what I am arguing? I'm saying we need to fix the offense and it's not hard. We just need a few pieces.

[MacReady]

Just now, JaireAlex said:

Isn't that what I am arguing? I'm saying we need to fix the offense and it's not hard. We just need a few pieces.

Typo.  Meant defense.  You will not find a time a team has won a Super Bowl without a top defense.  Ever. 
 

Quote

 

The average defensive points allowed over 52 years of Super Bowl history is 13.3 points per playoff game. 

Only 4 quarterbacks (Montana, Warner, Brees, Roethlisberger) have won a Super Bowl when their team has allowed over 19 points per playoff game. 

The highest average defensive points allowed to win a Super Bowl was Joe Montana at 24 points per game.  In his other two Super Bowl games, he only needed to score an average of 8 points and 7 points in order to win. 

The 85 Bears had the best average.  They allowed a whopping 3.3 points per game in their three playoff games. 

I was going to factor in defensive points scored by Super Bowl winning teams, and I might do that at some point, but I think what I've got is enough to prove my point. 

This entire QB thing has got to go.  You need a good QB to win a Super Bowl.  As this list proves, you don't need a great one.  Most of the years the greatest ones won, the QB didn't even have all that great a postseason.  Peyton won one while throwing 2 total touchdowns and an interception (including 0 Super Bowl touchdowns) throughout the postseason.  He won his other one while throwing 3 touchdowns and 7 interceptions in the postseason.  Aaron Rodgers had his worst game in the NFC Championship game.  Tom Brady was carried to his first Super Bowl win that kicked off a dynasty and helped make Brady who he is. 

Eagles - 16.6
Patriots - 18.0
Broncos - 14.6
Patriots - 18.3
Seahawks - 13.3
Ravens - 18.0
Giants - 14.0
Packers - 19.0
Saints - 19.6
Steelers - 19.6
Giants - 16.3
Colts - 12.8 (You think any QB is winning a Super Bowl throwing 3 TD/7INT in 4 games without that defense?)
Steelers - 15.5
Patriots - 17.0
Patriots - 19.0
Buccaneers - 12.3
Patriots - 15.6
Ravens - 5.7
Rams - 19.6
Broncos - 10.6
Broncos 16.3
Packers - 16.0
Cowboys - 18.3
Niners - 18.3
Cowboys - 17.0
Cowboys - 15.7
Redskins - 13.7
Giants - 11.7
Niners - 15
Niners - 7 (Joe Montana was so fantastic only having to score an average of 8 points)
Redskins - 12.3
Giants - 7.7
Bears - 3.3
Niners - 6.3 (Montana was so fantastic only having to score an average of a touchdown)
Raiders - 11.0
Redskins - 10.3
Niners - 24 (This one was the most impressive Super Bowl win from a QB from a points against perspective, but Montana threw 6 touchdowns to 4 interceptions in 3 games).  
Raiders - 12.5
Steelers - 13.0
Steelers - 12.3
Cowboys - 7.7
Raiders - 14.0
Steelers - 12.3
Steelers - 9.0
Dolphins - 8.7
Dolphins - 10.3
Cowboys - 5.3
Colts - 10.0
Chiefs - 4.3
Jets - 12.3
Packers - 10.3
Packers - 18.5 (two games)

 

 

[JaireAlex]

11 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Typo.  Meant defense.  You will not find a time a team has won a Super Bowl without a top defense.  Ever. 
 

 

I agree

But I think we can be top 3 offense and be around 10 on defense next year. Moreover, the offense can be reloaded for Arod's final run, and we can add pieces on D gradually.

No way we make this a top five d next year.

You're really not saying anything I am not, except that there is a notable shift towards offense. I thought all the final teams had solid defense....at least enough. And KC had the game in their grasp. The Rams D was definitely good enough. 

Just that we have a three year transition for our d. We brought in FAs to make it work this year already. 

But a very vocal minority on this forum want to ignore completely the obvious strategy of this off season, namely to address defense in FA and focus on offense in the draft because Gute wants to give MLF some players to work with and make sure Arod doesn't go to the hospital again.

"Embarrassing" is ignoring the most obvious. Sorry, you don't want to answer any of my questions.

Edit: The most EMBARRASSING comment I have read in years is that you don't need a great QB to win. 8 out 10 Superbowls are won by HOF QBs, but you want to normalize the outliers. Eli Manning and Foles played some excellent QB when they won, Eli was even HoF caliber. Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, Rothlesberger, Montana, Favre, Aikman, etc are just JAGs. That is some take there.

You win with the players you have. If you have a HoF QB, maximize his potential while improving the rest.

[MacReady]

Just now, JaireAlex said:

Embarrassing" is ignoring the most obvious. Sorry, you don't want to answer any of my questions.

Your questions are dull and have been answered repeatedly.  I think this is the fourth time you've brought up how many times Brady was sacked and, like most people who get fixated on something, you refuse to acknowledge the fact.  Brady was sacked so few times because HE GETS RID OF THE GOT DAMN BALL IN 3 SECONDS AS OPPOSED TO RODGERS DOING HIS BEST FRAN TARKENTON IMPERSONATION AND TAKING 37 SECONDS TO GET 37 YARDS INSTEAD OF 3.7 YARDS EVERY GOT DAMN PLAY.

When you pay your QB more than any player in history, it is incumbent upon him to get more done with less on offense. 

He's already got more than Brady does as far as offensive talent. 

[JaireAlex]

5 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Your questions are dull and have been answered repeatedly.  I think this is the fourth time you've brought up how many times Brady was sacked and, like most people who get fixated on something, you refuse to acknowledge the fact.  Brady was sacked so few times because HE GETS RID OF THE GOT DAMN BALL IN 3 SECONDS AS OPPOSED TO RODGERS DOING HIS BEST FRAN TARKENTON IMPERSONATION AND TAKING 37 SECONDS TO GET 37 YARDS INSTEAD OF 3.7 YARDS EVERY GOT DAMN PLAY.

When you pay your QB more than any player in history, it is incumbent upon him to get more done with less on offense. 

He's already got more than Brady does as far as offensive talent. 

Horrible take

Allison down. Jordy gone. Three day three rookies, a new TE, 2 worst guards in league last year, Cobb can't get open.at.all.

Literally the WORST offensive talent in 12 years.

Rodgers played injured all year on top of that. You are an absolute joke and farce. Despite that Rodgers had them in some games.

"37 seconds"? Do I need to respond to such hysteria? So your strategy is give Rodgers the scrubs from around the league because he is the GOAT. He doesn't need help. Brady doesn't have Gronk or Edelman or White and years of comfort with them, and his Oline is total trash? Seriously?

[MacReady]

Just now, JaireAlex said:

Horrible take

Allison down. Jordy gone. Three day three rookies, a new TE, 2 worst guards in league last year, Cobb can't get open.at.all.

Best receiver in the NFL in Davante Adams?  Demonstrable proof Rodgers did not throw to open receivers?  Literally incorrect on worst guards in the NFL with verifiable, demonstrable proof? 

You're lying.  Cobb actually led the NFL in separation yards in 2017 per target.  That was scientifically proven. 

You're lying.  RODGERS had a terrible year last year.  The last time you tried to prove otherwise, your link got laughed off this site with it being DEMONSTRABLY false with VISUAL EVIDENCE to the contrary of everything it tried to prove. 

Quit lying.  Two of those day three rookies were in the top 30 of yards per reception out of receivers drafted in ANY ROUND over the past TEN YEARS. 

[OneTwoSixFive]

40 minutes ago, JaireAlex said:

I don't think defense is unimportant, just that (a) offense is more important, (b) it's much much easier to fix this year, in one year, than defense which is ongoing, (c) it's clear that GB wants to be a joggernaut again, (d) we have Rodgers, (e) we have to protect Rodgers who had the 3rd most sacks and most throw aways and was playing injured and is getting older

Green Bay's self-improvement regime.

First become a joggernaut, then when they have that down, go for sprintonaut.