Vikings On the Clock

[vikingsrule]

8 minutes ago, wcblack34 said:

And if they take an OT in Round 2 (last one seems to be working out well for us), they can move Reiff inside. There's two starters with one move. Maybe it doesn't work out that way, but in this scenario, I see Hockenson as far and away the best player and value available. I'd be willing to draft him and use our 2nd and next year's first to move up for an lineman and a 3rd/4th. 

Reiff, Elflein, Kline still worries me as the opening day IOL.  

Theres a ton of ifs there and not much for talent. 

[gopherwrestler]

59 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

Exactly. Which doesn’t give it a 1st round value. 

But i also don’t believe a single guard is a game changer either. Or a center. 

Randall McDaniel was one of the best ever, never heard of him taking over a game and winning a game for us. 

The whole offensive line as a unit might be able to. But the same thing is said with a QB with extra weapons. 

 

While i’m not disagreeing with you the pick should probably be a lineman, to improve the until because it is probably more important as of right now, I’m basically stating the Vikings would really have to hope either someone they really want is at 50 or they have a plan to trade up..... or into a spot (Trae Waynes).

[SemperFeist]

An individual guard may not be a game changer, but it’s what happens to the offensive line as a unit when you plug that player in that is game changing. 

To make Cousins better, the Vikings don’t need to add another receiving weapon. They need to give him a clean pocket, or as clean of one as possible. The same for the running game. Consistently creating more holes/running lanes will in turn make Cook a better running back. 

[gopherwrestler]

8 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

An individual guard may not be a game changer, but it’s what happens to the offensive line as a unit when you plug that player in that is game changing. 

To make Cousins better, the Vikings don’t need to add another receiving weapon. They need to give him a clean pocket, or as clean of one as possible. The same for the running game. Consistently creating more holes/running lanes will in turn make Cook a better running back. 

There’s no doubt in my mind about that. But with the surrounding talent that would be available at 18, I’m just not 100% sold on Bradberry at 18.

I have numerous other players graded higher than him available and comparing him to previous years, I don’t have him as high as Ragnow or Daniels. 

I just think this draft what’s forcing him up so many people’s boards is he’s far and away the best center in the draft. Really the best interior lineman. So his demand is a bit higher

The only bright side I see is he is far and away the best as I said, and he is a great zone scheme fit. 

 

But the way you are describing him you make him sound like Quenton Nelson, and I can promise you, plugging and playing him, he won’t make that type of impact. Bradberry still has plenty of given weaknesses in his game.

 

 

[VikeManDan]

Would be ideal if the board fell this way. I'm going with Bradbury. He gives us the potential to upgrade 2 positions with 1 selection by kicking Elflein to guard.

[SemperFeist]

12 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

There’s no doubt in my mind about that. But with the surrounding talent that would be available at 18, I’m just not 100% sold on Bradberry at 18.

I have numerous other players graded higher than him available and comparing him to previous years, I don’t have him as high as Ragnow or Daniels. 

I just think this draft what’s forcing him up so many people’s boards is he’s far and away the best center in the draft. Really the best interior lineman. So his demand is a bit higher

The only bright side I see is he is far and away the best as I said, and he is a great zone scheme fit. 

 

But the way you are describing him you make him sound like Quenton Nelson, and I can promise you, plugging and playing him, he won’t make that type of impact. Bradberry still has plenty of given weaknesses in his game.

 

 

Bradbury may not be as physically gifted as Nelson, but I believe with his scheme fit, he’ll be a plug and play player. Maybe not to an All Pro level, but certainly that of a solid starter. 

And I’m not solely talking about Bradbury. I feel the same way about Risner, Lindstrom, and even Ford. Bradbury is just who I would choose, because I think he makes two positions stronger, rather than just one. 

[vikingsrule]

1 hour ago, gopherwrestler said:

But i also don’t believe a single guard is a game changer either. Or a center. 

Randall McDaniel was one of the best ever, never heard of him taking over a game and winning a game for us. 

The whole offensive line as a unit might be able to. But the same thing is said with a QB with extra weapons. 

 

While i’m not disagreeing with you the pick should probably be a lineman, to improve the until because it is probably more important as of right now, I’m basically stating the Vikings would really have to hope either someone they really want is at 50 or they have a plan to trade up..... or into a spot (Trae Waynes).

No one OL is a game changer sure, but it's a mentality the can be a game changer. If the Vikes choose to start drafting OL early instead of the best skill position player that falls, they may end up accumulating 3 or 4 really good OL over several drafts, and that is a game changer. 

The Colts and Cowboys both have great OLs but it took multiple years drafting high caliber prospects to get it to where it is now. 

Right now, we've got one OL that I feel comfortable saying can be really good, that's O'Neill. Would be nice to get two more from this draft. 

[gopherwrestler]

51 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

The Colts and Cowboys both have great OLs but it took multiple years drafting high caliber prospects to get it to where it is now.  

Are you talking about the 4 high picks the colts picked? 2 last year they hit on, and one was the best Interior OL to come out in history? And Ryan Kelly who hasn’t proven anything until last year, and Casazono drafted 8 years ago and was never really highly reguarded. 

One thing they never did, was reach in the draft for an offensive lineman.

The Cowboys also have drafted many high round picks, they have a solid offensive line, but where has that actually gotten them?

 

Ive said it over and over again, I’m fine with drafting an offensive lineman in the first round, but you now are trying to compare offensive lineman on teams that have proven having great offensive lines don’t win anything.

 

Lets look at the past two Super Bowl Championships. There is parody, two different forms of QB. 1 HoF, one guy almost ran out of the league. 

Story, 1 offensive lineman drafted in the 1st round that were starters.

 

2018 Patriots

Trent Brown - 7th Round - Free Agent Signing

Joe Thuney - 3rd Round

Shaq Mason - 4th Round

Marcus Cannon - 5th Round

David Andrews - UDFA

 

2017 Eagles

Jason Peters - UDFA

Isaac Seumalo - 3rd Round

Jason Kelce - 6th Round

Brandon Brooks - 3rd Round

Lane Johnson - 1st Round

 

 

 

Now even looking at the team that played them in the Super Bowl. Again, only 1 first round pick was invested in the 2nd placing teams in the NFL

 

2018 Rams

Andrew Whitworth - 2nd Round

Rodger Saffold - 2nd Round

John Sullivan - 6th Round

Rob Halvestein - 2nd Round

Austin Blythe - 7th Round

 

2017 Patriots

Nate Solder - 1st Round

Joe Thuney - 3rd Round

Shaq Mason - 4th Round

Marcus Cannon - 5th Round

David Andrews - UDFA

 

 

 

While the Rams invested in a couple free agents and 2nd round just spending 1st round picks on offensive lineman does not win Superbowls.

Teams that preform well spend these picks on best player available. And let the draft fall to them. The one failing part the Vikings have done is probably depend to much on free agents than drafts, but now entering this year we likely will spend at least a 1st or a 2nd round pick on a lineman. Tell me how this isn’t just as good of investment in offensive line as the past two Super Bowl Champions. It’s not like the teams not trying.

Riley Reiff - 1st Round - 1a/1b free agent tackle with Ricky Wagner

Josh Kline - UDFA

Pat Elfien - 3rd Round

Rookie? - 1/2 round

Brian O’Neill - 2nd Round. 

 

One or two players drafted in the first 3 rounds would be a large investment into or offensive line in the past 3 years. Even if one of the picks sit behind Kline this year.

All I’m saying, at the end of the day, I’m fine with the Vikings taking a falling player round one that is a talent and can help right now, but I would expect them to make an effort at getting one early in the draft whether it’s round 2 at our pick, a trade up in round 2, or even a trade back up into the 1st round on an offensive lineman and I would be happy with the effort the past couple years they have put into rebuilding this line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cearbhall]

2 hours ago, vikingsrule said:

Holding any TE to the standard of one of the greatest of all time isn't fair. 

Agreed. And I hope you didn't interpret my comment as holding him to that standard. I said that odds of him being the next Gronk are vanishingly slim. I would hope you don't interpret that to mean that I think he would have to be the next Gronk.

[vikingsrule]

3 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

Agreed. And I hope you didn't interpret my comment as holding him to that standard. I said that odds of him being the next Gronk are vanishingly slim. I would hope you don't interpret that to mean that I think he would have to be the next Gronk.

I'd take the next Travis Kelce or Zach Ertz. I know what you're saying, I'd love to have an athlete at the TE spot. But I'm just not sure it happens with Rudolph still on the roster, this early in the draft that is. 

[vikingsrule]

11 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

Are you talking about the 4 high picks the colts picked? 2 last year they hit on, and one was the best Interior OL to come out in history? And Ryan Kelly who hasn’t proven anything until last year, and Casazono drafted 8 years ago and was never really highly reguarded. 

One thing they never did, was reach in the draft for an offensive lineman.

The Cowboys also have drafted many high round picks, they have a solid offensive line, but where has that actually gotten them?

 

Ive said it over and over again, I’m fine with drafting an offensive lineman in the first round, but you now are trying to compare offensive lineman on teams that have proven having great offensive lines don’t win anything.

 

Lets look at the past two Super Bowl Championships. There is parody, two different forms of QB. 1 HoF, one guy almost ran out of the league. 

Story, 1 offensive lineman drafted in the 1st round that were starters.

 

2018 Patriots

Trent Brown - 7th Round - Free Agent Signing

Joe Thuney - 3rd Round

Shaq Mason - 4th Round

Marcus Cannon - 5th Round

David Andrews - UDFA

 

2017 Eagles

Jason Peters - UDFA

Isaac Seumalo - 3rd Round

Jason Kelce - 6th Round

Brandon Brooks - 3rd Round

Lane Johnson - 1st Round

 

 

 

Now even looking at the team that played them in the Super Bowl. Again, only 1 first round pick was invested in the 2nd placing teams in the NFL

 

2018 Rams

Andrew Whitworth - 2nd Round

Rodger Saffold - 2nd Round

John Sullivan - 6th Round

Rob Halvestein - 2nd Round

Austin Blythe - 7th Round

 

2017 Patriots

Nate Solder - 1st Round

Joe Thuney - 3rd Round

Shaq Mason - 4th Round

Marcus Cannon - 5th Round

David Andrews - UDFA

 

 

 

While the Rams invested in a couple free agents and 2nd round just spending 1st round picks on offensive lineman does not win Superbowls.

Teams that preform well spend these picks on best player available. And let the draft fall to them. The one failing part the Vikings have done is probably depend to much on free agents that drafts but now entering this year we likely will spend at least a 1st or a 2nd round pick on a lineman. Tell me how this isn’t just as good of investment in offensive line as the past two Super Bowl Champions. It’s not like the teams not trying.

Riley Reiff - 1st Round - 1a/1b free agent tackle with Ricky Wagner

Josh Kline - UDFA

Pat Elfien - 3rd Round

Rookie? - 1/2 round

Brian O’Neill - 2nd Round. 

 

One or two players drafted in the first 3 rounds would be a large investment into or offensive line in the past 3 years. Even if one of the picks sit behind Kline this year.

All I’m saying, at the end of the day, I’m fine with the Vikings taking a falling player round one that is a talent and can help right now, but I would expect them to make an effort at getting one early in the draft whether it’s round 2 at our pick, a trade up in round 2, or even a trade back up into the 1st round on an offensive lineman and I would be happy with the effort the past couple years they have put into rebuilding this line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Until Cousins can rise to the occasion and play at the level of a Brady, Foles or Goff in the playoffs, I'm not overly concerned with how those teams built their rosters. The Vikes absolutely need to improve the run game if they want to have any shot. Not addressing it in FA means it's pushed to a draft day prority. 

[Guest]

I took Ford.  He's the one on the list that I think could possibly contribute, with better than average production, as a rookie.  I am skeptical about moving either Reiff or Elflein to the guard position.  In particular, I'm worried that Elflein will not be able to produce, even at center, the way he did two years ago prior to injury.  I think he's injury prone.  I hope the team drafts a center in the 2nd round.

[gopherwrestler]

33 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

I took Ford.  He's the one on the list that I think could possibly contribute, with better than average production, as a rookie.  I am skeptical about moving either Reiff or Elflein to the guard position.  In particular, I'm worried that Elflein will not be able to produce, even at center, the way he did two years ago prior to injury.  I think he's injury prone.  I hope the team drafts a center in the 2nd round.

For what it’s worth, 

Elfein only played one year at center, and was 1st team, All Big - Ten at guard his sophomore and junior year. 

Also this past injury was his first injury he has had since a minor foot injury he entered college with. 

[PrplChilPill]

I flipped a coin between Bradbury and Ford. It came up Ford, though I have a TINY preference for Bradbury, because inside pressure sucks, and I think a good Center makes Kline better right away.

[PrplChilPill]

1 hour ago, gopherwrestler said:

Are you talking about the 4 high picks the colts picked? 2 last year they hit on, and one was the best Interior OL to come out in history? And Ryan Kelly who hasn’t proven anything until last year, and Casazono drafted 8 years ago and was never really highly reguarded. 

One thing they never did, was reach in the draft for an offensive lineman.

The Cowboys also have drafted many high round picks, they have a solid offensive line, but where has that actually gotten them?

 

Ive said it over and over again, I’m fine with drafting an offensive lineman in the first round, but you now are trying to compare offensive lineman on teams that have proven having great offensive lines don’t win anything.

 

Lets look at the past two Super Bowl Championships. There is parody, two different forms of QB. 1 HoF, one guy almost ran out of the league. 

Story, 1 offensive lineman drafted in the 1st round that were starters.

 

2018 Patriots

Trent Brown - 7th Round - Free Agent Signing

Joe Thuney - 3rd Round

Shaq Mason - 4th Round

Marcus Cannon - 5th Round

David Andrews - UDFA

 

2017 Eagles

Jason Peters - UDFA

Isaac Seumalo - 3rd Round

Jason Kelce - 6th Round

Brandon Brooks - 3rd Round

Lane Johnson - 1st Round

 

 

 

Now even looking at the team that played them in the Super Bowl. Again, only 1 first round pick was invested in the 2nd placing teams in the NFL

 

2018 Rams

Andrew Whitworth - 2nd Round

Rodger Saffold - 2nd Round

John Sullivan - 6th Round

Rob Halvestein - 2nd Round

Austin Blythe - 7th Round

 

2017 Patriots

Nate Solder - 1st Round

Joe Thuney - 3rd Round

Shaq Mason - 4th Round

Marcus Cannon - 5th Round

David Andrews - UDFA

 

 

 

While the Rams invested in a couple free agents and 2nd round just spending 1st round picks on offensive lineman does not win Superbowls.

Teams that preform well spend these picks on best player available. And let the draft fall to them. The one failing part the Vikings have done is probably depend to much on free agents than drafts, but now entering this year we likely will spend at least a 1st or a 2nd round pick on a lineman. Tell me how this isn’t just as good of investment in offensive line as the past two Super Bowl Champions. It’s not like the teams not trying.

Riley Reiff - 1st Round - 1a/1b free agent tackle with Ricky Wagner

Josh Kline - UDFA

Pat Elfien - 3rd Round

Rookie? - 1/2 round

Brian O’Neill - 2nd Round. 

 

One or two players drafted in the first 3 rounds would be a large investment into or offensive line in the past 3 years. Even if one of the picks sit behind Kline this year.

All I’m saying, at the end of the day, I’m fine with the Vikings taking a falling player round one that is a talent and can help right now, but I would expect them to make an effort at getting one early in the draft whether it’s round 2 at our pick, a trade up in round 2, or even a trade back up into the 1st round on an offensive lineman and I would be happy with the effort the past couple years they have put into rebuilding this line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What has taking DBs in round 1 or 2 over and over gotten the Vikings? We can play this game all day.....