cddolphin Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, mistakey said: 2. less regulation = freed from the shackles of the overbearing government. with the south korean insider trading issue, its very clear that rich people who own the majority of it will always act like a cartel and take advantage of people like you and me. anarcho-capitalism fails here. We're supposedly going to get new insight regarding this aspect when the SEC meets on Feb 14th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, cddolphin said: The pedestal of the dollar being this infallible currency. It's nothing if not silly and completely based in fiction given all the historical data we collectively possess when it comes to life/death cycles of fiat currency. The idea flies right in the face of reality. The dollar isn't special. yes it is. its a reserve currency and the currency of the largest economy in the entire world (for now). it will also be rescued in case if it does crash due to the fact that the united states has a couple thousand nukes. no one will let those (including the rest of the world) fall into the hands of anarchy, as evidenced by russia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossburg Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, Calvert28 said: So why are you even bothering posting in this thread if all you think is that it's a scam? I don't think anything he said implied he thinks it's a scam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Calvert28 said: So why are you even bothering posting in this thread if all you think is that it's a scam? adding to the discussion. i still have a coinbase account and i'm presenting another opinion. i owned cryptocurrency as recently as i think 15 days ago? i guess i still have some sia sitting in a wallet but i doubt i'll ever sell. living in NY State cant sign up for all the same exchanges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Mossburg said: I don't think anything he said implied he thinks it's a scam. Quote less regulation = freed from the shackles of the overbearing government. with the south korean insider trading issue, its very clear that rich people who own the majority of it will always act like a cartel and take advantage of people like you and me. anarcho-capitalism fails here. This is the same gripe about the current stock market with the ND and Dow and others that it's clearly rigged. Thus scammed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, Calvert28 said: This is the same gripe about the current stock market with the ND and Dow and others that it's clearly rigged. Thus scammed. and funny story there's laws to prosecute people who operate on the knowledge of insider trading. there's stringent kyc laws in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, cddolphin said: I'm not ignoring it. I'm saying the intangible backing of the US (or any) government is not the same as tying a currency to a commodity such as gold. It simply isn't. And if you have unshakeable faith in the US as it pertains to it's ability to keep control of it's own monetary policy / supply, well, here's hoping history doesn't repeat itself. The US dollar in it's current iteration is very young, about 57 years old. Now I'm not saying crypto currency is a "stable" as the dollar is, currently. I don't think anybody would be so foolish to suggest that. But some people need to remove the dollar from this curious pedestal. Yes, I have an unshakeable "faith" that the dollar isn't going anywhere. And the smartest thing we did was get rid of the gold standard. If we really want to talk about gold, it has no inherent value either. 27 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Because they corrupt individuals who have only the mindset of retaining or gaining power. For the interest of themselves not the public. And then they give BS statements about their proven practices. We are told this is bad for us, that we shouldn't be allowed to invest our money here, that there is too much risk involved. It's just one thing after another to try and either scare us or coerce us into keeping faith in these individuals who helped bring about these major crises such as the 08 crash brought on by greedy policies and even more greedy bankers. You seem to be conflating a few different things. What bad decisions are they making? What are the consequences to those decisions? Edited February 5, 2018 by jrry32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddolphin Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, mistakey said: yes it is. its a reserve currency and the currency of the largest economy in the entire world (for now). It is the most commonly used reserve currency. However, the dollar's market share in this regard has fallen from about 71% in 1999 to 63% in 2017. It's also not the first major reserve currency in human history, nor the second, nor the third. So the idea that it being a reserve currency makes it infallible is simply wrong. 5 minutes ago, mistakey said: it will also be rescued in case if it does crash due to the fact that the united states has a couple thousand nukes. no one will let those (including the rest of the world) fall into the hands of anarchy, as evidenced by russia. Not even sure how to begin packing this apart tbh so I'll pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: Yes, I have an unshakeable "faith" that the dollar isn't going anywhere. And the smartest thing we did was get rid of the gold standard. If we really want to talk about gold, it has no inherent value either. You seem to be conflating a few different things. What bad decisions are they making? What are the consequences to those decisions? can use it in manufacturing, but yes, it has limited inherent value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, cddolphin said: It is the most commonly used reserve currency. However, the dollar's market share in this regard has fallen from about 71% in 1999 to 63% in 2017. It's also not the first major reserve currency in human history, nor the second, nor the third. So the idea that it being a reserve currency makes it infallible is simply wrong. Not even sure how to begin packing this apart tbh so I'll pass. pack it apart, im up for a good debate if the dollar crumbles and the american economy goes to shambles... and we fail as happened to the Soviet Union (sorry for my slightly incorrect terminology there)... you really think that the world would be OK with the United States devolving into chaos knowing that we have the 2nd most amount of nuclear weapons in the entire world? cmon now. the rest of the world would pitch in and make investments and get super rich while making sure a stable government would have the reigns. just like they did in russia. Edited February 5, 2018 by mistakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddolphin Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Yes, I have an unshakeable "faith" that the dollar isn't going anywhere. And the smartest thing we did was get rid of the gold standard. If we really want to talk about gold, it has no inherent value either. I wish I shared your long-term optimism. BTW we didn't 'get rid of the gold standard' by choice necessarily. The US was caught printing too much money during Vietnam and were forced to end convertibility. The "gold inherent value" debate is a thoughtful one and I understand either side. When you take all of human history into account (and why wouldn't you, when trying to pin down patterns of behavior?) I think it becomes clear that gold has inherent value. It has been universally valued across time and civilizations and is easily divisible and transportable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 and you're right- the dollar isnt infallible forever. especially if we continue down a path of bad fiscal and trade policy (moves like abstaining from TPP and allowing China to take our place is a pretty big own goal) but since the great recession, the monetary policy of the fed's been pretty on point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, cddolphin said: I wish I shared your long-term optimism. BTW we didn't 'get rid of the gold standard' by choice necessarily. The US was caught printing too much money during Vietnam and were forced to end convertibility. The "gold inherent value" debate is a thoughtful one and I understand either side. When you take all of human history into account (and why wouldn't you, when trying to pin down patterns of behavior?) I think it becomes clear that gold has inherent value. It has been universally valued across time and civilizations and is easily divisible and transportable. We got rid of the gold standard because it limited our economy. It would have been terrible policy to keep it around and would be terrible policy to put it back in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddolphin Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, mistakey said: pack it apart, im up for a good debate if the dollar crumbles and the american economy goes to shambles... and we fail as happened to the Soviet Union (sorry for my slightly incorrect terminology there)... you really think that the world would be OK with the United States devolving into chaos knowing that we have the 2nd most amount of nuclear weapons in the entire world? cmon now. the rest of the world would pitch in and make investments and get super rich while making sure a stable government would have the reigns. just like they did in russia. In 1991, when the Soviet Union fell, was the world's primary reserve currency the ruble? Unless a transition to another monetary system was already in place, the collapse of the dollar would likely mean the collapse of global trade as we know it, at least in the 'short' term. It's a house of cards, propped up by dozens of financial institutions. I just don't think any coalition of countries would be capable of fixing that mess, not effectively, not with all hell breaking loose within their own borders. Not that they wouldn't have a desire to, it would simply be too much a poop show. Besides, were the dollar to collapse, why on Earth would they want to prop it back up again? It would be replaced, just like the other 575 now-defunct fiat currencies in modern history that were supplanted after failing for one reason or another. Edited February 5, 2018 by cddolphin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, cddolphin said: In 1991, when the Soviet Union fell, was the world's primary reserve currency the ruble? Unless a transition to another monetary system was already in place, the collapse of the dollar would likely mean the collapse of global trade as we know it, at least in the 'short' term. It's a house of cards, propped up by dozens of financial institutions. I just don't think any coalition of countries would be capable of fixing that mess, not effectively. Not that they wouldn't have a desire to, it would simply be too much a poop show. Besides, were the dollar to collapse, why on Earth would they want to prop it back up again? It would be replaced, just like the other now-defunct 575 fiat currencies in modern history that were supplanted after failing for one reason or another. who cares if its effective or not? you just cannot have chaos in the united states. the world forced ukraine to give their nukes to russia after the soviet union fell solely to consolidate the countries who had nukes. we have the 2nd most. its just not going to happen. why would anyone want to prop up a country full of spenders who have top 10/15 GDP per capita stats and a significant amount of natural resources such as oil, natural gas, sunshine, fresh water, university education that pretty much fueled the economic activity of the entire world during pax americana? cmon now. rich people want to get richer and will invest where they see opportunity. hell, china's been investin a bunch in idaho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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