Bitcoin

[cddolphin]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

We got rid of the gold standard because it limited our economy.

Smells like revisionist history to me, I've always understood it to be a necessary result of mis-managing global supply of your currency:

"These efforts of the global financial community proved to be temporary fixes to a broader structural problem with the Bretton Woods system. The structural problem, which has been called the “Triffin dilemma,” occurs when a country issues a global reserve currency (in this case, the United States) because of its global importance as a medium of exchange. The stability of that currency, however, comes into question when the country is persistently running current account deficits to fulfill that supply. As the current account deficits accumulate, the reserve currency becomes less desirable and its position as a reserve currency is threatened."

https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/gold_convertibility_ends

10 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

It would have been terrible policy to keep it around and would be terrible policy to put it back in place. 

It'd be impossible, I'd say.

12 minutes ago, mistakey said:

and you're right- the dollar isnt infallible forever.  especially if we continue down a path of bad fiscal and trade policy (moves like abstaining from TPP and allowing China to take our place is a pretty big own goal) but since the great recession, the monetary policy of the fed's been pretty on point...

Perhaps but 1 dumb/greedy Federal Reserve Chairman / Board could undo the great work of 20 predecessors. 

As to the bolded, this "quantitative easing" they've been doing since the recession seems like more of the same to me: kicking the inflation can down the road. Who knows?

[cddolphin]

7 minutes ago, mistakey said:

why would anyone want to prop up a country full of spenders who have top 10/15 GDP per capita stats and a significant amount of natural resources such as oil, natural gas, sunshine, fresh water, university education that pretty much fueled the economic activity of the entire world during pax americana?

We talking about propping up a country of people, or a national currency? We were discussing the USD. If the dollar collapses in on itself, does the UN come together to fix the dollar or guide the world to the Electronic Credit System (for example)? If you think the former would be the case, do you have one real-world historical example of a currency being 'fixed' after failing?

[mistakey]

9 minutes ago, cddolphin said:

We talking about propping up a country of people, or a national currency? We were discussing the USD. If the dollar collapses in on itself, does the UN come together to fix the dollar or guide the world to the Electronic Credit System (for example)? If you think the former would be the case, do you have one real-world historical example of a currency being 'fixed' after failing?

pretty clear that they're intertwined, no? especially in an age of globalization (populist waves be damned)- if the dollar falls, imports become too expensive and america goes to hell cause no one can buy anything.

the world stepped in to ensure that mexico didnt destroy itself in 1994.
the world stepped in to prevent a grecian crisis that could have derailed the euro.
the world stepped in to prevent a cypriot crisis that could have derailed the euro.

and those countries arent nearly as consequential to the world's economy as the united states.

[Calvert28]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

 

You seem to be conflating a few different things. What bad decisions are they making? What are the consequences to those decisions?

Smothering middle class and lower class income to prevent any actual success.

[Calvert28]

1 hour ago, cddolphin said:

We're supposedly going to get new insight regarding this aspect when the SEC meets on Feb 14th.

God I hope not. I just want them to give us a salute and let this market keep taking shape.

[Calvert28]

1 hour ago, mistakey said:

and funny story there's laws to prosecute people who operate on the knowledge of insider trading.  there's stringent kyc laws in place.  

Funny story, it takes money to make money. And with that comes risk. Constant regulation smothers any sort of possible success.

[BobbyPhil1781]

Been scouting all these baby coins that I want to get into during this sale that's going on. Been reading speculation that Bitcoin might get down as low as 5k. Not sure the validity of it but if that does, that's the time to get in for sure.

[cddolphin]

1 minute ago, JTagg7754 said:

Been scouting all these baby coins that I want to get into during this sale that's going on. Been reading speculation that Bitcoin might get down as low as 5k. Not sure the validity of it but if that does, that's the time to get in for sure.

Pure speculation, but I don't see why the pattern reverses itself before the SEC sets some kind of precedent next week. So 5k is in play given the current rate of decrease.

The industry cracking down on ICOs would only be good news for established coins like Bitcoin and Ripple, no?

[cddolphin]

1 hour ago, mistakey said:

and those countries arent nearly as consequential to the world's economy as the united states.

Yup exactly my point, since the US is the hub of monetary policy, a collapse there would be like a load-bearing beam cracking and bringing down the entire building around it. Mexico or Greece having issues would be like the building having insulation issues in comparison. 

Your neighbors can rally around and fix smaller problems like that. But if the house is rubble and ash, what can you expect them to do really? And who? China? Russia? Germany? The EU collectively can't even keep their own affairs in order, they would be prepared to handle the dollar melting down?

Obv we're 100% speculating and it may simply be that you are more optimistic than I am about an organized response. I take a bit of a doom and gloom perspective on this topic. Or maybe neither of us have even close to the level of knowledge needed to make any kind of accurate predictions when it comes to something as complicated as the global economy. But it's the internet so WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[jrry32]

47 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Smothering middle class and lower class income to prevent any actual success.

Yea, you're definitely conflating a bunch of different things, which is why your point doesn't make much sense in the context of this conversation.

[jrry32]

2 hours ago, cddolphin said:

Smells like revisionist history to me, I've always understood it to be a necessary result of mis-managing global supply of your currency:

"These efforts of the global financial community proved to be temporary fixes to a broader structural problem with the Bretton Woods system. The structural problem, which has been called the “Triffin dilemma,” occurs when a country issues a global reserve currency (in this case, the United States) because of its global importance as a medium of exchange. The stability of that currency, however, comes into question when the country is persistently running current account deficits to fulfill that supply. As the current account deficits accumulate, the reserve currency becomes less desirable and its position as a reserve currency is threatened."

https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/gold_convertibility_ends

It'd be impossible, I'd say.

Perhaps but 1 dumb/greedy Federal Reserve Chairman / Board could undo the great work of 20 predecessors. 

As to the bolded, this "quantitative easing" they've been doing since the recession seems like more of the same to me: kicking the inflation can down the road. Who knows?

The gold standard was bad policy. It limited the government's ability to act, it created a complete lack of stability in the markets, and it put a cap on economic growth. That's why we went away from the gold standard in the 1930s to escape the Great Depression (because it was only worsening the depression). The Bretton Woods system wasn't even a true gold standard domestically. And we went away from that because of the limitations on the supply of gold and our desire that the dollar be the world's reserve currency. Simply put, the gold standard is an archaic, bad policy. You can complain about how our government spends our money, but our current system is definitely better than the gold standard. The biggest advantage of the gold standard is that it prevents inflation, but our current system allows for that without the major downsides.

[jrry32]

35 minutes ago, cddolphin said:

Yup exactly my point, since the US is the hub of monetary policy, a collapse there would be like a load-bearing beam cracking and bringing down the entire building around it. Mexico or Greece having issues would be like the building having insulation issues in comparison. 

Your neighbors can rally around and fix smaller problems like that. But if the house is rubble and ash, what can you expect them to do really? And who? China? Russia? Germany? The EU collectively can't even keep their own affairs in order, they would be prepared to handle the dollar melting down?

Obv we're 100% speculating and it may simply be that you are more optimistic than I am about an organized response. I take a bit of a doom and gloom perspective on this topic. Or maybe neither of us have even close to the level of knowledge needed to make any kind of accurate predictions when it comes to something as complicated as the global economy. But it's the internet so WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

If the dollar goes down, we're all screwed, so I'm not going to worry about it. 

[mistakey]

1 hour ago, cddolphin said:

Yup exactly my point, since the US is the hub of monetary policy, a collapse there would be like a load-bearing beam cracking and bringing down the entire building around it. Mexico or Greece having issues would be like the building having insulation issues in comparison. 

Your neighbors can rally around and fix smaller problems like that. But if the house is rubble and ash, what can you expect them to do really? And who? China? Russia? Germany? The EU collectively can't even keep their own affairs in order, they would be prepared to handle the dollar melting down?

Obv we're 100% speculating and it may simply be that you are more optimistic than I am about an organized response. I take a bit of a doom and gloom perspective on this topic. Or maybe neither of us have even close to the level of knowledge needed to make any kind of accurate predictions when it comes to something as complicated as the global economy. But it's the internet so WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

and bitcoin will exactly do what in a catastrophic collapse? especially when the largest holders are insiders in authoritarian regimes who manipulate markets to line their pocket books?

[BobbyPhil1781]

2 hours ago, cddolphin said:

Pure speculation, but I don't see why the pattern reverses itself before the SEC sets some kind of precedent next week. So 5k is in play given the current rate of decrease.

The industry cracking down on ICOs would only be good news for established coins like Bitcoin and Ripple, no?

I believe it is good news for sure. I've been keeping an eye on it a lot and will continue to. There's a coin that was at almost .03 and now, is at .004. If it gets to .001 isn't it almost a must to get a ton of it bc even getting back to .01 would be a 10x investment and .03, which it had been to, would be 30x. I've been wrestling with this for quite some time lol. It's an established coin also so it's here to stay

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, JTagg7754 said:

I believe it is good news for sure. I've been keeping an eye on it a lot and will continue to. There's a coin that was at almost .03 and now, is at .004. If it gets to .001 isn't it almost a must to get a ton of it bc even getting back to .01 would be a 10x investment and .03, which it had been to, would be 30x. I've been wrestling with this for quite some time lol. It's an established coin also so it's here to stay

Sounds like fun. Let me know if it goes to 0.001.