Player Appreciation Thread

[jimkelly02]

12 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

No matter who wanted him out there it still made zero sense.  People said he was not risking further injury to himself but his inability to do his job at an except able level was putting other players at risk for injury.  I am sure Carr could have used a break during his 51 sack run also.

I completely agree.  It was not worth risking a sprained MCL turning into significant damage that could have affected him throughout his career.  I dont buy he wasnt risking further damage (which I remember was said) because if you have a sprained MCL your obviously less strong+stable in your knee and that could result.  There's definite risk of planting the same knee wrong and tearing other ligaments or even just lacking stability in that knee and tearing the other knee's ligaments/any other type of injury.

My point was that I doubt Miller DEMANDED to stay on the field, he probably was pushed by the staff, who felt an injured Miller was better than TJ Clemings (and theyre prolly right).  But again it was worth the risk.  We weren't in the heat of a playoff run.  We could have signed a veteran off the street to handle LT.

 

[drfrey13]

5 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I completely agree.  It was not worth risking a sprained MCL turning into significant damage that could have affected him throughout his career.  I dont buy he wasnt risking further damage (which I remember was said) because if you have a sprained MCL your obviously less strong+stable in your knee and that could result.  There's definite risk of planting the same knee wrong and tearing other ligaments or even just lacking stability in that knee and tearing the other knee's ligaments/any other type of injury.

My point was that I doubt Miller DEMANDED to stay on the field, he probably was pushed by the staff, who felt an injured Miller was better than TJ Clemings (and theyre prolly right).  But again it was worth the risk.  We weren't in the heat of a playoff run.  We could have signed a veteran off the street to handle LT.

 

A couple different ways to go.  I personally would have put Parker on the left because you could tell he was thinking it through on the right and would have been much more natural on the left.

[jimkelly02]

18 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

A couple different ways to go.  I personally would have put Parker on the left because you could tell he was thinking it through on the right and would have been much more natural on the left.

That was one possibility and definitely better than what did happened.  
But I'd tend to believe the coaches thought Parker was best suited at RT and didnt want to move him and delay his development.

IMO we should have kept Parker at RT, as he already has enough issues going on.  We should have sat Miller for 3ish weeks to heal and signed a vet of the street, then used a TE or RB to help chip DEs/rushers for him.

Edited July 25, 2020 by jimkelly02

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

That was one possibility and definitely better than what did happened.  
But I'd tend to believe the coaches thought Parker was best suited at RT and didnt want to move him and delay his development.

IMO we should have kept Parker at RT, as he already has enough issues going on.  We should have sat Miller for 3ish weeks to heal and signed a vet of the street, then used a TE or RB to help chip DEs/rushers for him.

The only person that looked more awkward at RT than Parker was Penn who Parker replaced.  I think Cable believes that if you can play LT then you should be able to play RT.  We had Penn at LT then RT.  Parker was a LT in college and we immediatly switch him to RT.  Brown who was a RT for the 49ers but switched to LT for the Patriots and played at an extremely high level was switched also.  He is probably the only one I would say could do it before he played because he went back to a more natural position.  Penn and Parker could not even get the foot movements right.

[jimkelly02]

8 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

The only person that looked more awkward at RT than Parker was Penn who Parker replaced.  I think Cable believes that if you can play LT then you should be able to play RT.  We had Penn at LT then RT.  Parker was a LT in college and we immediatly switch him to RT.  Brown who was a RT for the 49ers but switched to LT for the Patriots and played at an extremely high level was switched also.  He is probably the only one I would say could do it before he played because he went back to a more natural position.  Penn and Parker could not even get the foot movements right.

I agree... but my point was he was already struggling to get the footwork of RT down, so switching back to LT (only for a handful of weeks, and then ultimately going back to RT, the position of his “future” to us would only have complicated things for him even more.  We messed up his development enough, moving him (back and forth) around his rookie year would have just made it worse imo.

with Miller drafted before him (same year), Parker never was going to be a LT with us.

Edited July 25, 2020 by jimkelly02

[drfrey13]

51 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I agree... but my point was he was already struggling to get the footwork of RT down, so switching back to LT (only for a handful of weeks, and then ultimately going back to RT, the position of his “future” to us would only have complicated things for him even more.  We messed up his development enough, moving him (back and forth) around his rookie year would have just made it worse imo.

with Miller drafted before him (same year), Parker never was going to be a LT with us.

He had played four years straight at LT and still needed to improve.  Switching him to RT only made it worse.  If they needed a RT they should have drafted one.  None of it made since.

[jimkelly02]

11 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

He had played four years straight at LT and still needed to improve.  Switching him to RT only made it worse.  If they needed a RT they should have drafted one.  None of it made since.

Yeah I get all that but I’ve said his only chance of sticking on the team NOW is as a backup LT.

However, I’m talking about back in ‘18 and your talking about Parker in retrospect.

Back in ‘18.... we drafted Miller to be a LT and Parker to the be future RT.  That CLEARLY was the plan and hope.

So Parker trained at RT all camp then started playing RT in games...... then  Miller gets dinged up.

My point of contention is at that point in ‘18 when Miller should have been sat on the bench and given time to heal.......

that moving Parker to LT would have been a bad idea because it would have only stunted his development.  He was struggling with the change to RT already so swapping him back and forth wouldn’t have helped out his chances.  Now remember, at this time we don’t know that Parker would ultimately fail at RT.

 

But yes I agree they should have drafted a RT instead of Parker.... but that wasn’t the debate or statement I was making.

We should have taken Brian O’Neill at 57 and PJ Hall would have been there at 65.

I think O’Neill is becoming one of the top RTs In football.

Edited July 26, 2020 by jimkelly02

[drfrey13]

28 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yeah I get all that but I’ve said his only chance of sticking on the team NOW is as a backup LT.

However, I’m talking about back in ‘18 and your talking about Parker in retrospect.

Back in ‘18.... we drafted Miller to be a LT and Parker to the be future RT.  That CLEARLY was the plan and hope.

So Parker trained at RT all camp then started playing RT in games...... then  Miller gets dinged up.

My point of contention is at that point in ‘18 when Miller should have been sat on the bench and given time to heal.......

that moving Parker to LT would have been a bad idea because it would have only stunted his development.  He was struggling with the change to RT already so swapping him back and forth wouldn’t have helped out his chances.  Now remember, at this time we don’t know that Parker would ultimately fail at RT.

 

But yes I agree they should have drafted a RT instead of Parker.... but that wasn’t the debate or statement I was making.

We should have taken Brian O’Neill at 57 and PJ Hall would have been there at 65.

I think O’Neill is becoming one of the top RTs In football.

You maybe did not take part in the arguments but I have been saying he should be at LT since day 1.  As soon as I heard they wanted to put him at RT I almost lost it.

[jimkelly02]

18 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

You maybe did not take part in the arguments but I have been saying he should be at LT since day 1.  As soon as I heard they wanted to put him at RT I almost lost it.

I wasn’t posting on here back in ‘18.  I also hated the pick, trust me.  I didn’t think he was very good back then and as a RT would be too weak.  There were a handful of guys I’d have taken to be a a RT over him... will Richardson, Orlando brown, okorafor from western Michigan, heck even Alex cappa.  Really hated that pick.

[drfrey13]

10 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I wasn’t posting on here back in ‘18.  I also hated the pick, trust me.  I didn’t think he was very good back then and as a RT would be too weak.  There were a handful of guys I’d have taken to be a a RT over him... will Richardson, Orlando brown, okorafor from western Michigan, heck even Alex cappa.  Really hated that pick.

I figured they saw Miller as a RT since he played well there in college and were going to groom Parker as the future LT.  Penn was still on the team so I figured that was how it would shake out.  Even if Parker did not develop before Penn left you could still move Miller to LT since he had shown against higher level college competition that he could go back and forth between the positions.  To me the argument about moving Parker back and forth slowing his development is exactly why you would not move him in the first place.  Nothing about him said RT except that he was not ready to start at LT.

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

I figured they saw Miller as a RT since he played well there in college and were going to groom Parker as the future LT.  Penn was still on the team so I figured that was how it would shake out.  Even if Parker did not develop before Penn left you could still move Miller to LT since he had shown against higher level college competition that he could go back and forth between the positions.  To me the argument about moving Parker back and forth slowing his development is exactly why you would not move him in the first place.  Nothing about him said RT except that he was not ready to start at LT.

I agree with most if not all of that.  But...

Parker was drafted to be the RT and Miller was drafted to be the LT.  That was the plan starting from draft day.

It was a poor plan to draft Parker to play RT.  It was a poor plan from the start.  BUT it was THE COACHES plan.  I dont think that can be disputed.  It also cant be disputed that moving Parker to RT would have been a major challenge and a long term development plan.  The plan was to move the aging Penn, who was coming off injury to RT and then phase Parker into the starting RT spot.  You can disagree with the plan but not that it was their plan.

So being that Miller@LT and Parker@RT was the plan.... despite Parker eventually failing at RT and that it being no surprise from us and others that would ultimately happen.... it did not make sense to move Parker, who had been working almost extensively at RT throughout camp and the season (literally his entire time in the NFL up to date) back to LT knowing it would only last a few weeks until Miller would return and reclaim the LT spot...... did not make sense.  

If the coaches wanted Parker to be the longterm RT they had to keep him at RT and not switch him back and forth.  The switch was hard enough for him and he was still learning.

Again,,,, the plan was flawed from the beginning but they made the right choice to not swap him back and forth from RT to LT.  If you want to argue Parker, who they drafted with the 1st pick in the 3rd round, should have been stuck solely at LT and thus would have been a backup LT or swing tackle ,,,, then the real argument is we should have drafted a different RT or a different player at a different position.... but that discussion is NOT what i was and am talking about.... but i agree with that opinion, nonetheless.

[jimkelly02]

If talking “player appreciation” there’s few players I, and I’d assume most fans, appreciate more than Richie Incognito.

The way he just shoves Billings, who is a low center of gravity and compact (6’0 328-330 lbs) and strong (31 225lb reps) NT, to the ground is remarkable.  How can you not love having Incongito and his savageness on our team!  The man loves burning defenders!  Im very excited to see Him pound defenders again this year.  
 

btw he’s not just a beast in the run game.... in the passing game.... 

“Incognito allowed just one sack, no quarterback hits, and eight quarterback hurries on 432 pass-blocking snaps, and per Pro Football Focus, no guard that played at least 50% of his team’s total snaps allowed fewer total pressures.”

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/07/21/the-nfls-11-best-offensive-guards-2/5/

 

[Darbsk]

5 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

If talking “player appreciation” there’s few players I, and I’d assume most fans, appreciate more than Richie Incognito.

The way he just shoves Billings, who is a low center of gravity and compact (6’0 328-330 lbs) and strong (31 225lb reps) NT, to the ground is remarkable.  How can you not love having Incongito and his savageness on our team!  The man loves burning defenders!  Im very excited to see Him pound defenders again this year.  
 

btw he’s not just a beast in the run game.... in the passing game.... 

“Incognito allowed just one sack, no quarterback hits, and eight quarterback hurries on 432 pass-blocking snaps, and per Pro Football Focus, no guard that played at least 50% of his team’s total snaps allowed fewer total pressures.”

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/07/21/the-nfls-11-best-offensive-guards-2/5/

 

Yep, he was exceptional last year. Very impressive what he did to Billings as you noted, against one of the strongest guys in the NFL. Guy just plays nasty 😀

The thing is, he isn't the prettiest but he's incredibly effective and brings that old fashioned Raider edge. No surprise I think that Miller is now playing much better too. I think our worries when he signed were justified but he's been dusciplined and committed and been our best value FA.

[jimkelly02]

4 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Yep, he was exceptional last year. Very impressive what he did to Billings as you noted, against one of the strongest guys in the NFL. Guy just plays nasty 😀

The thing is, he isn't the prettiest but he's incredibly effective and brings that old fashioned Raider edge. No surprise I think that Miller is now playing much better too. I think our worries when he signed were justified but he's been dusciplined and committed and been our best value FA.

Crazy to think where we’d be without Incognito and Waller.  Frank Smith saw him running around pregame vs Baltimore in ‘18 and was so impressed he was on the active roster the week on Monday... literally.  Those were two massive “finds” for us that had massive benefit last year and for years to come.  While Incognito just turned  37 this month I totally expect Him to finish out him the two years on his contract.... so we’d get 3 years of top end Guard play from him.

[Darbsk]

11 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Crazy to think where we’d be without Incognito and Waller.  Frank Smith saw him running around pregame vs Baltimore in ‘18 and was so impressed he was on the active roster the week on Monday... literally.  Those were two massive “finds” for us that had massive benefit last year and for years to come.  While Incognito just turned  37 this month I totally expect Him to finish out him the two years on his contract.... so we’d get 3 years of top end Guard play from him.

Yes, both were great pickups. I admitedly was one who was pessimistic when we let Cook go for an unproven Waller but the coaches and FO were absolutely right to do it. I think Olsen played a big role in bringing him in too so kudos to him too. Cook and Waller have both been great targets for Carr so I think its a good chance Carr and the scheme could make a lot of TEs productive but Waller should gave another good year and cement himself as one of the top TEs.