Week 4: Redskins (0-3) vs. Giants (1-2): Sunday 1 pm

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Dude, as I’ve said all along. It’s more than just a QB thing. We have NO running game and the D has been awful. It doesn’t matter who was staring at QB, with the way the entire team has played the first 4 weeks, we were going to be 0-4 and almost 100% 0-5 after next week to start this season.

That being the case, you might as well move on to the future QB and get him starters reps during practice the rest of the season and the most live game action they can give him the rest of this season so he can learn and develop the best way possible which is by playing regular season games and learning from your mistakes and successes.

I mean let’s not lose sight of the fact of how young Haskins is and how much room he has to grow. He just turned 22 on May 3rd. He’s going to have growing pains, but he’s also got years of development ahead of him as a QB given his young age. 

 

Also don't lose sight of those already talking about drafting a QB next year or in 2 years. As I said take responsibility and say YOU wanted Haskins in.

As proven even with him in, it made no difference to the outcome of the game.

You got your wish now watch as Haskins stands in the pocket too long, throws InTs, not throw proper off his legs, not get to his second reads, ect. 

Wtf would you want a Rookie QB to go into a game to fail for? That makes no sense!! As you said they have no run game and pass protection isn't that great!!! Wtf would you want your Rookie QB to go through this dysfunction for? Right for experience. Enjoy the experience Turtle and don't make any excuses.  

Let's not forget Keenum and Colt will still be getting paid while Haskins is getting bang up! While most likely being gone next year! Thats helps the future of the team How? 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Skins212689

[naptownskinsfan]

4 hours ago, Woz said:

I have no confidence in that. I agree with MK's (?) theory that Allen's smartest play is to keep Gruden for the entire season so he can be the sole fall guy.

I agree 110% with that assessment, unless they already have a new head coach selected, which they've offered to someone before in the middle of the season.  

[e16bball]

36 minutes ago, mar29020 said:

to entertain that, the team is really bad and haskins looks incredibly green. Maybe start haskins the last 3-4 games to have some film going into the off-season so he can work on things.

I agree with that plan of attack, I’m not saying you have to sit the guy forever. I’ve even mentioned previously that I’d be okay with shooting for getting him in there after the bye week. 

33 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

You’re right, I think the bolded is seriously overrated.

Maybe it is. And maybe it’s just mere coincidence that Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Patrick Mahomes, Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, Kurt Warner, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer, Deshaun Watson, etc. all sat for at least their rookie season (most for a lot more than half). 

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

The truth is outside of the first quarter of week 1, Case Keenum has mostly stunk up the joint. I don’t know how you can continue to send Case out there when the other 52 guys can’t have much belief in him that he’ll get the job done bc he keeps having bad turnovers and he’s led the team to an 0-3 start.

I don’t get it. 

For one, Keenum is almost certainly better than Haskins at this point. Keenum has been bad for the last two weeks, but Haskins was not a credible NFL QB today, and he likely won’t be for most of the season. If they’re feeling depressed by the play of Keenum, they’re going to be downright distraught watching Haskins flounder out there.

For two, who gives a shiny strawpenny about how the other 52 guys feel? Developing Haskins properly is more important to the future of this franchise than the other 52 guys on the roster combined. If he develops into a star, we’ll be competitive year-in and year-out until he hangs it up. If he busts, we’re set back another 4 or 5 years, regardless how the rest of these guys turn out. Changing his development schedule because of how the current players (or the fans, or the media) feel about the current QB play is painfully short-sighted. Which is par for the course for a franchise that does nothing with a long-term plan in mind, and prefers to chart a course like a leaf in a stream — just bouncing around aimlessly from one rocky patch to the next. 

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Yeah and how do you get that in the pros? You play the games.

Or...you draft a guy who has had more than 14 starts. That's also an option.

Or...you let the guy sit until he's ready. That's also an option.

Look, at some point this season, I want to see him start. I just don't think the smart money is now.

I agreed with putting him in, but only because there was no other QB to replace Case and Case needed to take a break. But I'm not gonna kill Jay if he goes back to Case next week.

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, e16bball said:

Experience, yes. 

Polish, fundamentals, understanding of how offenses work and how to attack defenses — no. I’m sitting here watching Chase Daniel, who has started 4 NFL games in his life and has just about zero discernible talent, handling himself and running his offense better than either of the two much more talented, long-time starters who started this game. 

You (and many others, it’s certainly not just you) are seriously underestimating the value of getting the chance to sit and learn how to be a QB without being expected to perform on a weekly basis.  

[turtle28]

13 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Also don't lose sight of those already talking about drafting a QB next year or in 2 years. As I said take responsibility and say YOU wanted Haskins in.

As proven even with him in, it made no difference to the outcome of the game.

You got your wish now watch as Haskins stands in the pocket too long, throws InTs, not throw proper off his legs, not get to his second reads, ect. 

Wtf would you want a Rookie QB to go into a game to fail for? That makes no sense!! As you said they have no run game and pass protection isn't that great!!! Wtf would you want your Rookie QB to go through this dysfunction for? Right for experience. Enjoy the experience Turtle and don't make any excuses.  

Let's not forget Keenum and Colt will still be getting paid while Haskins is getting bang up! While most likely being gone next year! Thats helps the future of the team How? 

I don’t give a crap what others think. I don’t know how anyone can say on this date that Haskins isn’t going to work out and you’re certainly not going to be able to tell what he’ll develop into by his first season starting.

I already have explained my position in like 5 threads for over a month. If you don’t know it by now then I don’t know what I can do for you.

Who cares that Case and Colt are being paid to be back ups and that one or both of them will be gone next year.

Why do I or anyone care about that? It’s irrelevant. Bottom line is we need to see Haskins play, quit crying that Haskins is getting to play and enjoy that you’re going to see a redskins first round rookie QB play    for the first time since 2012.

 

[Thaiphoon]

24 minutes ago, Woz said:

I agree with this. Now that you've made the change to Haskins, you roll with Haskins, for better or ill (unless he's injured).

And see? I'm okay with this too. But I'm not going to beat them up either way. I think Haskins needs to sit a bit more (but not much more than starting week 6 or 7). But as a coach, I've had to face this decision in going with the new, raw, untested guy with a higher ceiling...or letting that guy learn the position more before I throw him out there.

Either way, Jay is gonna get roasted by some in the media and in Redskins nation.

[turtle28]

8 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Or...you draft a guy who has had more than 14 starts. That's also an option.

Why? Why do that when they’re not the best QB prospect on the board and you need a young QBS?

 

[Skins212689]

5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t give a crap what others think. I don’t know how anyone can say on this date that Haskins isn’t going to work out and you’re certainly not going to be able to tell what he’ll develop into by his first season starting.

I already have explained my position in like 5 threads for over a month. If you don’t know it by now then I don’t know what I can do for you.

Who cares that Case and Colt are being paid to be back ups and that one or both of them will be gone next year.

Why do I or anyone care about that? It’s irrelevant. Bottom line is we need to see Haskins play, quit crying that Haskins is getting to play and enjoy that you’re going to see a redskins first round rookie QB play    for the first time since 2012.

 

No you enjoy it and watch Haskins get no where close to what Griffin was in 2012! 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Skins212689

[Skins212689]

6 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

And see? I'm okay with this too. But I'm not going to beat them up either way. I think Haskins needs to sit a bit more (but not much more than starting week 6 or 7). But as a coach, I've had to face this decision in going with the new, raw, untested guy with a higher ceiling...or letting that guy learn the position more before I throw him out there.

Either way, Jay is gonna get roasted by some in the media and in Redskins nation.

Jay is on his way out the door but still getting paid so if I was him I'd go out with my guy. I think we will see Colt again if Jay stays through the season. I'm fine with that. 

[Thaiphoon]

14 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Why? Why do that when they’re not the best QB prospect on the board and you need a young QBS?

 

We thought Robert was the best QB prospect too. And he was a project QB, just like Dwayne.

Now...I LOVE Dwayne's tools. I've even said that when the kid puts it all together, he will be dangerous.

But you're arguing different things. 

You want the guy...no matter how much experience and polish he has, to start now (hell, you wanted him to start Week 1). And I get that. I understand the push to see and play with the shiny new toy you just got for your birthday.

What @e16bball and others are saying is that when the guy...no matter what the tools are, gets drafted by your team, you need to ensure that the guy has a long career with you. And the best way is for him to sit for awhile longer to understand how to play the position.

Because if you want someone to come in and start now...you wanted a QB that has more experience and polish than the rookie we have now. And you if you wanted that rookie to come in now, that rookie should've ALREADY had at least 2-3 years starting in college to get that experience and polish. 

So how are we going to get a rookie QB with experience and polish? Well one option is we don't draft one that only has 14 starts to his resume. That's risky.

Or...we take the guy with the better tools (aka - Haskins) and then coach him up and let him sit and learn for awhile. And THEN put him in. And that is regardless of who is in front of him. 

Today, if Colt were available, I would've told Jay to sit Case and go with Colt over Dwayne. Because the guy still needs to work on fundamental things that he should've come into the league with.

And yes, I get the whole "he'll learn as we go along". That has some merit to me, it does. But I also don't see too much downside with the guy sitting. I haven't seen it with any other QB that has eventually taken the reins of their teams. I HAVE seen the downside of throwing the rookie in too early and having them be so overwhelmed due to not even having the right foundational knowledge, that they bomb. The history of the league is littered with guys who had (potentially) HOF talent, but got put in the wrong situation at the wrong time and never were allowed to grow at the right pace for them.

[turtle28]

55 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I agree with that plan of attack, I’m not saying you have to sit the guy forever. I’ve even mentioned previously that I’d be okay with shooting for getting him in there after the bye week. 

Maybe it is. And maybe it’s just mere coincidence that Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers, Tony Romo, Patrick Mahomes, Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, Kurt Warner, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer, Deshaun Watson, etc. all sat for at least their rookie season (most for a lot more than half). 

I don’t get it. 

For one, Keenum is almost certainly better than Haskins at this point. Keenum has been bad for the last two weeks, but Haskins was not a credible NFL QB today, and he likely won’t be for most of the season. If they’re feeling depressed by the play of Keenum, they’re going to be downright distraught watching Haskins flounder out there.

For two, who gives a shiny strawpenny about how the other 52 guys feel? Developing Haskins properly is more important to the future of this franchise than the other 52 guys on the roster combined. If he develops into a star, we’ll be competitive year-in and year-out until he hangs it up. If he busts, we’re set back another 4 or 5 years, regardless how the rest of these guys turn out. Changing his development schedule because of how the current players (or the fans, or the media) feel about the current QB play is painfully short-sighted. Which is par for the course for a franchise that does nothing with a long-term plan in mind, and prefers to chart a course like a leaf in a stream — just bouncing around aimlessly from one rocky patch to the next. 

Keenum has been bad since the first Quarter and a half of the Eagles game.

Week 1: Keenum threw for over 200 yards and 2 TDs in the first 20 minutes of the Eagles game. He threw a pass to Vernon Davis and Davis managed to break 3 or 4 tackles on his way to a 48 yard TD reception, most of which was yac by Davis. Then, Keenum hit a wide open McLaurin for a TD pass, and since that deep pass Keenum completed on his other 4 other deep attempts to wide open WRs, he hasn’t hit one WR deep who’s been running open behind the defense.

In the last 10 minutes of the 2nd quarter vs the Eagles, Keenum threw for 50 yards on 3 drives.

In the entire 3rd quarter vs the Eagles, Keenum threw for only one completion to CT - a running back - for 11 yards.

In the 4th quarter until the final drive when the Eagles were playing softer in coverage and Keenum took advantage by going on a 75-yard scoring drive to end the game, Keenum threw for just 22 yards on 3 completions.

That’s 33 yards in the first 26:50 of the second half until that final drive.

In week 2 vs the Cowboys Keenum was mostly bad until the final drive of the game where the Cowboys once again were playing softer in coverage like the Eagles did the week before and Keenum again went on a 75-yard scoring drive and a TD to end the game and pad his stats, Keenum had only thrown for 146 yards in 3 quarters and 10 minutes into the 4th quarter.

We all saw the Bears game, Keenum was awful.

Keenum was awful to start the game today vs the Giants and it’s why he got benched in the 2nd quarter.

Therefore, it was a perfect time to move on to Haskins. Get him starters reps during the week as he prepares to be the starter each week from now on until the rest of the season. Haskins wasn’t all bad today.

For as bad as Haskins was, he was still better than Keenum today. Keenum managed only 37 yards passing and an interception - 26 of those yards to running backs - on the first 4 drives of the game.

Edited September 30, 2019 by turtle28

[Woz]

35 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

And see? I'm okay with this too. But I'm not going to beat them up either way. I think Haskins needs to sit a bit more (but not much more than starting week 6 or 7). But as a coach, I've had to face this decision in going with the new, raw, untested guy with a higher ceiling...or letting that guy learn the position more before I throw him out there.

Either way, Jay is gonna get roasted by some in the media and in Redskins nation.

Oh, I'm not happy with him playing now. But if you've made the call, you ride him like there's no tomorrow.

[turtle28]

33 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

No you enjoy it and watch Haskins get no where close to what Griffin was in 2012! 

Oh, I’ll enjoy it. If you don’t want to watch the Redskins and Haskins, feel free to do something else on your Sunday afternoons from now on.

[Woz]

23 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Today, if Colt were available, I would've told Jay to sit Case and go with Colt over Dwayne. Because the guy still needs to work on fundamental things that he should've come into the league with.

Agreed. If for no other reason than to say "well, look, we saw what Keenum gave us, and we saw what Colt gave us ... let's see what the rookie can give us."

Now, the problem is if you bench Haskins or he gets hurt and Colt looks even adequate, you've created a controversy.