MikeT14 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 38 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: I agree Jay does know how to develop a QB that fits his systems but no he isn't a good HC/decision maker. That's more so what I meant when I said Gruden isn't Reid. I mean, it's not like Reid has been up for winning any awards for decision making. I remember ripping on him year after year for his timeout blunders among other things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) On 9/30/2019 at 11:49 AM, mar29020 said: Let Gruden do what he wants. He knows how to coach a QB. He sees Haskins every day. I guarantee if haskins was the best chance to win he would be playing now. He may not be a great HC but he knows how to coach a passing game. Don't forget, Gruden thought Haskins was his best chance to win at Sunday bc he benched Keenum for playing awful in the first half after Keenum played as best avg to awful in every quarter since the 1st half vs Phila in week 1. Haskins did start off pretty well in his first drive as he led us on an FG and almost a TD but then didn't play well in the second half. Just bc Haskins didn't play well in the second half doesn't mean that he won't play better than that his next time up when he hopefully gets more first-team reps and the gameplan is geared towards him and his strengths and he gets to practice that during practice the week before the game. I can certainly see Gruden thinking that Colt gives the team the best chance to win vs the Patriots, but I don't think it matters who we start vs them bc we're going to get boat raced worse than we did vs Chicago. If Colt is healthy and ready to go, the Keenum experiment may be already over in DC. As everyone knows I think they need to go with the rook and have that era begin, have him take his lumps as a young starter now, in his rookie season rather then delaying the inevitable. There's no reason in trying to win games with 30-year-old avg at best vets. Colt’s fine, I have no problems with him, he's an average QB and he probably gives the team the best chance to win currently but that doesn't mean that the guy who they hope to be the future franchise QB should be on the bench bc Gruden likes Colt and wants to give him a pity start. Edited October 2, 2019 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: I mean, it's not like Reid has been up for winning any awards for decision making. I remember ripping on him year after year for his timeout blunders among other things. Reid teams have been to the playoffs consistently. Philly went to a SuperBowl and it seems the Cheifs have a great chance in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, MikeT14 said: I mean, it's not like Reid has been up for winning any awards for decision making. I remember ripping on him year after year for his timeout blunders among other things. Andy Reid is basically a better version of Jay Gruden, and that's been Reid’s MO for 20 years. Perfect example, Andy Reid gets let go by the Eagles and 5 years later his protege and former back up QB - Doug Peterson - wins the Super Bowl with the QB that Reid drafted in 2012. Reid = great offensive mind, good but not great HC. Edited October 3, 2019 by turtle28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 30 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: Reid teams have been to the playoffs consistently. Philly went to a SuperBowl and it seems the Cheifs have a great chance in the near future. No one is saying that Gruden is as good as Reid, although, I bet if look at Reid’s 1st 6 years as a HC from 99-05, their records would be similar. We’re saying Jay is a poor man’s Reid. Jay is mediocre as a HC, Reid is above average. We’re talking about 1 or 2 win a year difference here between that 2 - for most of Reid’s head coaching career - but it wasn't that way from 99-05 for Reid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: No one is saying that Gruden is as good as Reid, although, I bet if look at Reid’s 1st 6 years as a HC from 99-05, their records would be similar. We’re saying Jay is a poor man’s Reid. Jay is mediocre as a HC, Reid is above average. We’re talking about 1 or 2 win a year difference here between that 2 - for most of Reid’s head coaching career - but it wasn't that way from 99-05 for Reid. Gruden can't hold Reids jockstrap Turtle. Yes Kirk and Dalton numbers may look good under Gruden, but what have they accomplished outside of that? Not a damn thing. I can't just focus on individual stats like you. What did these QBs do for the TEAM when it matter most? Under Reid they succeed. Win playoff games and make SuperBowls, same can't be said under Gruden. The damn Vikings might consider eating Cousins contract to get rid of him! Yes Gruden helped Cousins get good stats but that lead to nothing when it comes to what you play the game to do. You play the game to Win, not boost stats. Edited October 2, 2019 by Skins212689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 This is actually funny. Reid is of course more accomplished than Gruden but I wouldn't call him a continuous playoff success... he's 12 - 14 in the playoffs. He gets there and then they mostly just fizzle out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 1 minute ago, MikeT14 said: This is actually funny. Reid is of course more accomplished than Gruden but I wouldn't call him a continuous playoff success... he's 12 - 14 in the playoffs. He gets there and then they mostly just fizzle out. So would you rather have those career stats or be in the situations we have been in the last what 15-20 years? I don't even know the last time the Skins won a playoff game. Do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Skins212689 said: So would you rather have those career stats or be in the situations we have been in the last what 15-20 years? I don't even know the last time the Skins won a playoff game. Do you? 99 - beat the Lions. You're moving the goal posts. All I said was I wouldn't call Reid a playoff success. He does well in the regular season, gets there, and kind of fizzles out. They don't necessarily "win playoff games and make super bowls" - he's lost more than he's won and he's been to 1 Super Bowl. All things better than Gruden, of course. He's had a nice, long, mostly successful career in the NFL, that's true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: 99 - beat the Lions. You're moving the goal posts. All I said was I wouldn't call Reid a playoff success. He does well in the regular season, gets there, and kind of fizzles out. They don't necessarily "win playoff games and make super bowls" - he's lost more than he's won and he's been to 1 Super Bowl. All things better than Gruden, of course. He's had a nice, long, mostly successful career in the NFL, that's true. He consistently makes the playoff is more of my point. I'd think we all would prefer that over what we have been delt. Edited October 2, 2019 by Skins212689 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezy Fanatic Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 6 hours ago, turtle28 said: . You’ve been for over a decade but it's incredibly hard to find out which posts to take serious bc of too much sarcasm. Then I'm right in my sweet spot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 6 hours ago, Skins212689 said: Gruden can't hold Reids jockstrap Turtle. Yes Kirk and Dalton numbers may look good under Gruden, but what have they accomplished outside of that? Not a damn thing. I can't just focus on individual stats like you. What did these QBs do for the TEAM when it matter most? Under Reid they succeed. Win playoff games and make SuperBowls, same can't be said under Gruden. The damn Vikings might consider eating Cousins contract to get rid of him! Yes Gruden helped Cousins get good stats but that lead to nothing when it comes to what you play the game to do. You play the game to Win, not boost stats. I didn’t say Jay was as good as him, the point is their strengths are the same. That’s it, more, nothing less. That’s what being a “poor man” of someone else means, a poorer version of the better version. Individual stats tell us how good a certain player performs. When a team wins or loses, it’s bc the rest of the team played good too, not just one player. There were certainly games where Kirk played below average or like trash and we almost always lost those bc we needed him to play well to win. That just shows you how important he was to the team, we needed him to play near perfect in order to win. If the team around Kirk was better we would have won more games and probably made the playoffs in 2016 & 17 just like in 15. For example, yes Kirk made mistakes vs the Giants and vs others in Dec in 2016 & 17 but there was no running game and the D played like trash too. We couldn’t ever overcome Kirk playing poorly and still win gems when he was here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 6 hours ago, Skins212689 said: He consistently makes the playoff is more of my point. I'd think we all would prefer that over what we have been delt. And under Gruden we won the division in 2015 - played good enough to win in a home playoff game but lost to Aaron Rodgers - were a game from being in the playoffs in 2016 and in 17 we were two games away from the making playoffs. He did that w/o a running game and defense those years, which was mostly the FO’s fault but also some Gruden’s bc he didn’t hire Wade Phillips in 2015. Hiring Barry over him was the dumbest decision of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins212689 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Have at it Turtle. Spread the Love for Jay, I want be on that train though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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