Week #5 Steelers 1-3 vs. Ravens 2-2 Gamethread

[Steeler Hitman]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I think Vince's problem is the dude next to him.

No doubt the combination of guys help, but the run defenses game was poor with Shazier and Vince in Ryans' prime before he go hurt.  In theory I have always thought Vince would be a great Thumper, but he wasn't. Some may have been because of some DL issues as well. I remember a few years ago the Bears and Jacksonville pounding the ball down our throat with Vince and company.  I have always wanted a BIG MCNASTY in the middle. One of the reasons that I wanted the Steelers to try to sign Danny Shelton to pair with Hargraves and keep Bush clean.  It is not all on Vince, but as I stated, I saw better/more consistent run defense with Jon Bostic last year.  Bostic took heat because he was getting abused in the pass game.

He looked poor when he wasn't with an athletic running mate. He's looked the best with Shazier. Now we have Bush (and maybe Barron) as the athletic MACK and I think we'll see Vince flourish again.

I hope you are right. You are more optimistic than I am. I actually think that Tyler Dirty Red Matakevich is a better run-stuffer than Vince.  Like Bostic, Dirty Red's lack of speed/athleticism hurts him in his overall game.  He seems to let lineman get tis body more than Vince does, but his play diagnosis and reaction are better. Howeverm it does no good if you are blocked. Hence , this is why Dirty Red is mainly on ST's. Red has the football IQ and can diagnose plays, but is even less athletic than Vince and again, lets blockers get to him.  Bad combo for an ILB/MLB. 

The more and more comfortable Bush gets, the better we'll be able to utilize Vince. Also, I know it is a tiny sample size but Vince was pounding Seattle's run game until he went down, at least by the eye test. Maybe I'm wrong.

I respect what you see and your opinion my friend.  I am not debating you, just sharing a different viewpoint. Again, I like Vince, but really wish that I saw from him what you do. I touted Sean Davis being drafted, but I can't justify the pick and support based on his play.  I know Minkah was a better prospect coming out of college, but he has done more to settle and solidify the back end than both Edmunds and Davis did playing together last year and early this year before Davis went down. Two games and two weeks of practice and he has a better command of the back end than a veteran who has been in the system for four years.

I think the Steelers dominated Seattle early on defense, but the offenses lack of ball control/first downs kept them from blowing Seattle out early.  The game was eerily similar to the Chargers game last year. The game could have got ugly early for Seattle if the offense supported the defense.  The pass rush was killing them and the run defense was strong on early downs. It could have made Seattle very one dimensional.   Vince got hurt and maybe would've been available all game if the offense wasn't consistently going three and out and possessed the ball longer than one or two minutes.  I believe that Seattle OT Russell Okung said that the Steelers defense began to get visibly tired in the second quarter and was gassed the entire second half.  While you give Vince credit for that, I give the blame to the offenses lack of ball control. Maybe I am wrong. I hope that Vince does make a difference, but I just haven't seen that thus far. 

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, August4th said:

just notice stephon tuitt is only 26. His prime might just be getting started if he can stay healthy. This defense has a promising future with a core of Watt, Tuitt, Minka, Bush, Nelson, Edmunds ..all these guys have room to grow. just hope the team can get it out of them while their here

I would say this D would be for real with:

1. legit DC or at least one that doesn't try to cover WR1 with slow run stopping ILB

2. A real threat at passrusher opposite Watt and /or getting Hargrave more snaps especially on passing downs. 

3. Edmunds needs to improve but wait to see

4. another CXB would be nice, but Sutton might be legit, time will tell if he gets a fair chance

5.  DC that doesn't cover TE with slow ILB's

6. improved tackling, as basic as it gets but that never can be good enough IMO.

[Chieferific]

I think there is a common misconception on this board. No team rushes 5 every time. Watt is the main Pass rusher. Dupree is not. I dislike Dupree as much as anyone but his worth should not be judged solely on Pass Rush ability.  What they need is a more rounded OLB. One that can set the Edge, cover and effectively rush on occasion. 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, Chieferific said:

I think there is a common misconception on this board. No team rushes 5 every time. Watt is the main Pass rusher. Dupree is not. I dislike Dupree as much as anyone but his worth should not be judged solely on Pass Rush ability.  What they need is a more rounded OLB. One that can set the Edge, cover and effectively rush on occasion. 

I agree with what you are saying. Dupree was decent last game, but I still would expect Hargrave to be disruptive if given more snaps. As a result, they either have Heyward or Dupree take a rest since Tuitt is on the field all the time. Not bad to have 5 players up front to offer rest and keep from being tired, which has been an issue for this D when the offences was pass happy and lacked TOP. 

I am hoping this game is the game where they run and own TOP, get back to that. Still throw a few deep passes to keep the ravens honest as they say. 

[Shady Slim]

we got this, we can do this.

vince is a big in not just because he’s a green dot guy but because the running game is centred around attrition, and vince is a hard hitter and will wear down ingram and lamar if they get him running, as well as their linemen - i know it’s an old school football man sort of thing to say but the ravens are so run dominant you have to be able to do this against them

and further to that if our front seven as a whole continues to get pressure we should be able to get lamar uncomfortable and scrambling, fumbling, or throwing some juicy picks

and all of a sudden we’ve got a secondary who i trust to take those picks! heck even if we were to finish 4-12 this year, would we get a player with that pick who’d fit the team better than minkah has? shady slim doesn’t think so

i do not think they’ll run the wildcat heavy offense again expecting it to work; looked to me that it was used to set up that samuels touchdown run and then a bit more for randy’s pleasure, i think if big randy stays agile and continues to be innovative in new ways this team can make the playoffs and i’m here for it 

[Chieferific]

I'm hoping (thinking) Minkah can take away those big play deep balls to "Hollywood" and Snead. Dolphins had him covering "Hollywood" in the Slot. That will not end well.  Let him sit back and play over the top. Assuming he doesn't get fooled by the PA, he has the speed/awareness to take out those long balls. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Chieferific

[Chieferific]

Yay! Pats Vs Skins. 

[3rivers]

I'm expecting a good game actually. 

Minkah with an Int

D with 6+ sacks , 4 TO's

D still letting Lamar run though

A few more passes down the field especially if Connor gets going (which is what I expect). They will try to get the running game going. 

Of course there is the potential that the DC and OC have other ideas that cost the team. I think the ravens have shown in recent weeks they aren't quite as good as some though, yet this will be a tough game as usual. 

 

[DR43]

Here is my weekly mock draft:

 

2. Travis Etienne RB Clemson
3. Mustafa Johnson NT Colorado
4. Willie Gay Jr OLB Mississippi ST
4. Tarik Black WR Michigan
5. Jared Rice TE Fresno State
6. Myles Dorn S North Carolina
7. Jonah Jackson OT Ohio State
 

[August4th]

 

[3rivers]

this used to be our game of the year. Lets see if the team shows up for this

[Chieferific]

Nice to see Vance is back I expect a big game from him. 

[August4th]

already starting with bad field position lol

[Chieferific]

They sure do try hard to get Holton involved. 

[3rivers]

bad start, and tackled by Fort!