Jets cut G Kelechi Osemele after he elects to have shoulder surgery

[NJC33]

19 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Which doesn’t make him comfortable, but only willing. What’s he supposed to say? 

And even if he did feel great...things change.

Players play through injuries all the time. Also highly possible it got worse since then. 

So let me ask: why is it a stretch to say it got worse? He may have felt like he could play on it, only to find that A) he can’t, or B) it got worse. 

Assuming he got injured playing football, why is it so unlikely that continuing the exact activity that caused the pain, made it worse? 

When have I ever said it isn't possible the injury got worse? lol. You read a couple of statements from a day long conversation and make inferences. I've acknowledge the fact that everything your saying is possible, I also think it's naive to believe it's an open and shut case. Not everything is meant to be adversarial. 

That last list of bullets was to show that at one point KO felt comfortable enough to play, which you had brushed off as speculation. Not the longevity of that comfort. 

 

[Soko]

2 hours ago, NJC33 said:

When have I ever said it isn't possible the injury got worse? lol. You read a couple of statements from a day long conversation and make inferences. I've acknowledge the fact that everything your saying is possible, I also think it's naive to believe it's an open and shut case. Not everything is meant to be adversarial. 

That last list of bullets was to show that at one point KO felt comfortable enough to play, which you had brushed off as speculation. Not the longevity of that comfort. 

 

Short of mind reading, it’s still speculation.

And alright then, I’ll try and be more literal. What makes you think that it’s more likely KO is, in some form, “quitting” than the injury just worsening? You openly believe that he’s making “a business decision”,  but your response to the possibility of a worsened injury is “well that’s unknown”. 

We know which side of the fence you’re on, I just want to hear if there’s legitimate reason or if it’s the green shades.

[NJC33]

12 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Short of mind reading, it’s still speculation.

And alright then, I’ll try and be more literal. What makes you think that it’s more likely KO is, in some form, “quitting” than the injury just worsening? You openly believe that he’s making “a business decision”,  but your response to the possibility of a worsened injury is “well that’s unknown”. 

We know which side of the fence you’re on, I just want to hear if there’s legitimate reason or if it’s the green shades.

Short of mind reading, we are both speculating, which is exactly my point!

1. I don't think Joe Douglas, who's widely respected around the league, would be willing to ruin his reputation over something so blatantly "open and shut"
2. Mailing it in/prioritizing money isn't necessarily uncharacteristic of Osemele (Ask Oakland fans how they feel about the guy) 
3. There have been reports suggesting KO would still be playing if he hadn't been benched
4. Speaking of which, his decision to get surgery coincidentally coincides with his demotion
5. Wear and tear is 100% possible, but it's not like his play fell off a cliff. IMO (Based on reasons previously stated) it's safe to assume he entered the season comfortable enough to play. If the injury has in fact gotten worse, it's not like his play has reflected that, he's been awful from the start. 
6.  We've only heard one side of the story: 
    

The Jets have completely mishandled this entire situation, but they aren't doing so because of some personal vendetta against KO IMO. They feel cheated, and I'd imagine at one point we'll find out why. I'm sure you can dissect/dispute all the above, that's great. This is just my opinion, and like you said, short of mind reading we're all just speculating.

Edit: None of this changes the fact that I too believe the Jets are 100% wrong for how they've handled everything. I've formulated my own opinion knowing I don't have to act on it. The Jets don't have this luxury, and should've realized that this is a battle they can't win, especially when the issue at hand is pertaining to player safety.  

Edited October 25, 2019 by NJC33

[Soko]

18 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

Short of mind reading, we are both speculating, which is exactly my point!

Except my speculation involves no mind reading.

Is football->injury->more football->worsened injury, really speculation? And if you still think it is, is it really the same as making assumptions on a guy’s pain? Come on.

18 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

1. I don't think Joe Douglas, who's widely respected around the league, would be willing to ruin his reputation over something so blatantly "open and shut"

If this were how things were, no respected or highly publicized person would ever do something wrong.

18 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

1. Mailing it in/prioritizing money isn't necessarily uncharacteristic of Osemele (Ask Oakland fans how they feel about the guy) 

In what way? 

18 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

1. There have been reports suggesting KO would still be playing if he hadn't been benched

Where?

18 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

1. Speaking of which, his decision to get surgery coincidentally coincides with his demotion

Which even if it was pure coincidence and the injury had 0 effect on his play (LOL), becomes irrelevant when we find out his labrum is torn off the bone. Dude needs surgery. 

18 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

1. Wear and tear is 100% possible, but it's not like his play fell off a cliff. IMO (Based on reasons previously stated) it's safe to assume he entered the season comfortable enough to play. If the injury has in fact gotten worse, it's not like his play has reflected that, he's been awful from the start. 

Injured. Comfortable enough to play, sucked. Then injury got worse, can’t even play now. What’s so complicated?

18 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

1.  We've only heard one side of the story: 
    

The Jets have completely mishandled this entire situation, but they aren't doing so because of some personal vendetta against KO IMO. They feel cheated, and I'd imagine at one point we'll find out why. I'm sure you can dissect/dispute all the above, that's great. This is just my opinion, and like you said, short of mind reading we're all just speculating.

Edit: None of this changes the fact that I too believe the Jets are 100% wrong for how they've handled everything. I've formulated my own opinion knowing I don't have to act on it. The Jets don't have this luxury, and should've realized that this is a battle they can't win, especially when the issue at hand is pertaining to player safety.  

Enjoy the season with the shades, bro.

[NJC33]

38 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Except my speculation involves no mind reading.

Is football->injury->more football->worsened injury, really speculation? And if you still think it is, is it really the same as making assumptions on a guy’s pain? Come on.

I'm not assuming anything, the words "I feel great" literally came out of KO's mouth himself. I guess he was lying about the pain then, but truthful now? Hmm...
Despite how strongly you feel about the injury worsening, that is an assumption, you do realize that?

40 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

If this were how things were, no respected or highly publicized person would ever do something wrong.

Fair enough. It's still reasonable to give a highly respected guy the benefit of the doubt until he gives you a reason not to. 

44 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

In what way? 

"Ask Oakland fans about the guy" - A lot of Raider fans questioned his character and believed he mailed it in after signing his big contract.

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Where?

Nothing more than speculation around the time the news broke. No, I won't take the time to dig it up.

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Which even if it was pure coincidence and the injury had 0 effect on his play (LOL), becomes irrelevant when we find out his labrum is torn off the bone. Dude needs surgery. 

His labrum has been torn, dude has always needed surgery (At some point )

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Injured. Comfortable enough to play, sucked. Then injury got worse, can’t even play now. What’s so complicated?

Injured. Sucked. Comfortable enough to play, sucked. - It's important to remember that KO played through this injury in Oakland, it's not like he was testing it out for the first time with the Jets.

I couldn't care less about this topic man. Maybe I'm wrong, I still won't care. I don't question the legitimacy of your argument, I simply see it a different way. We don't have to agree, it's all good. Hopefully, when the legal ramifications disappear, we get to hear the Jets side of the story. 

I'll enjoy the season as much as one could watching the Jets, "bro": 

 

[nagahide13]

Jesus, is that Madden 20? What system are they running it on, Osemele's shoulder?

 

[Soko]

1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

I'm not assuming anything, the words "I feel great" literally came out of KO's mouth himself. I guess he was lying about the pain then, but truthful now? Hmm...

And Julian Edelman said “I’m pretty healthy” after he tore his ACL. Guess he should’ve kept playing and was quitting on the team.

Let’s pretend you’re right and his injury/pain hasn’t changed since the summer - how does it look that the Jets doctors medically cleared him for full contact but multiple other doctors say he needs immediate surgery? And then the team fines him for it? They’re pathetic, no two ways around it.

1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

Despite how strongly you feel about the injury worsening, that is an assumption, you do realize that?

Keep dodging the questions, bromigo. I spelt it out simple. 

“Is football->injury->more football->worsened injury, really speculation? And if you still think it is, is it really the same as making assumptions on a guy’s pain?”

1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

Fair enough. It's still reasonable to give a highly respected guy the benefit of the doubt until he gives you a reason not to. 
 

Everyone’s great until they aren’t, I guess. Does this guy have some sort of good will track record that I’m unaware of? Douglas came out and said the team made “an honest mistake” by sending blank MRIs. So at minimum, he isn’t beyond mistakes. 

Unpopular opinion in 2019: sometimes doing something crappy doesn’t mean you’re a crappy person. He could be a good dude, doesn’t mean what’s going on right now isn’t wrong.

1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

"Ask Oakland fans about the guy" - A lot of Raider fans questioned his character and believed he mailed it in after signing his big contract.

He had an all-pro season in Oakland, lol. And two pro bowls, whatever those are worth. In the thread, all the Raiders fans said he was still decent but was regressing. Nothing about work ethic or quitting. 

1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

His labrum has been torn, dude has always needed surgery (At some point )

Was it completely torn off the bone in the summer? If so, even more irresponsible of the Jets. 

[Soko]

Also for those viewing: Joe Douglas came out and admitted the team screwed up by sending blank MRIs, Osemele got the surgery without the Jets’ blessing.

[NJC33]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

And Julian Edelman said “I’m pretty healthy” after he tore his ACL. Guess he should’ve kept playing and was quitting on the team.

Let’s pretend you’re right and his injury/pain hasn’t changed since the summer - how does it look that the Jets doctors medically cleared him for full contact but multiple other doctors say he needs immediate surgery? And then the team fines him for it? They’re pathetic, no two ways around it.

Keep dodging the questions, bromigo. I spelt it out simple. 

“Is football->injury->more football->worsened injury, really speculation? And if you still think it is, is it really the same as making assumptions on a guy’s pain?”

Everyone’s great until they aren’t, I guess. Does this guy have some sort of good will track record that I’m unaware of? Douglas came out and said the team made “an honest mistake” by sending blank MRIs. So at minimum, he isn’t beyond mistakes. 

Unpopular opinion in 2019: sometimes doing something crappy doesn’t mean you’re a crappy person. He could be a good dude, doesn’t mean what’s going on right now isn’t wrong.

He had an all-pro season in Oakland, lol. And two pro bowls, whatever those are worth. In the thread, all the Raiders fans said he was still decent but was regressing. Nothing about work ethic or quitting. 

Was it completely torn off the bone in the summer? If so, even more irresponsible of the Jets. 

You seem to be taking this personal.

You asked for my opinion, not the other way around. I see no reason to continue arguing because once again, I really don’t care one way or another lol.

Happy to circle back in the future if/when more information comes out.

Enjoy the weekend. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by NJC33

[Broncofan]

On the plus side, now that Osemele has had the surgery, the Jets have listed him as day-to-day.

 

[sammymvpknight]

47 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

On the plus side, now that Osemele has had the surgery, the Jets have listed him as day-to-day.

 

This is all you really need to know. The Jets are being dingleberries about this. They continue to embarrass themselves. But apparently non-Jets fans are the ones taking this personal, the ones that have absolutely no dog in the fight...Jets fans have far less bias. 😒

[Broncofan]

Oh boy...

So the damage was much worse than anticipated. 

So I wonder if the angles about this being on Osemele will just stop now?   I'd think so.  Because from the NYJ org's perspective, if the damage is even worse than indicated, their insistence that he keep playing, and refusal to sign off, they've already come off as clearly in the wrong before.  This is just the icing on the cake.   It would be hard to imagine Osemele won't just win a grievance, but press for additional penalties, given how NYJ has handled this.   GM Douglas should be telling the ownership & FO to come out with their mea culpas and public apologies for Monday (again, Douglas didn't own the original decision, so he should have nothing invested in the fallout from the original signing).     

It's almost like Osemele's repeated statements that the pain was becoming intolerable had merit.   And that maybe just that the NYJ org messed up in backing the original diagnosis despite multiple outside opinions saying otherwise.   The only ppl who think Osemele has any culpability at this stage bleed green.    

Edited October 26, 2019 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

And the other angle here - with the damage being worse than expected, even if there isn't a 2020 injury guarantee, given the Jets MD cleared him to play and refused to approve surgery, and had Osemele practicing - I suspect the NFLPA is going to file in the grievance that 2020's contract year must be honored, as a result of the Jets actions, as it's now been demonstrated that the severity of the injury was even worse than feared - and the Jets' insisting on him practicing contributed to that damage. 

I'll defer to the legal experts, but if Osemele can't be medically cleared to play for next March 2020, I'd think there's a good case to be made that the Jets just bought themselves Osemele's 2020 contract year, lock stock and barrel (11.2M for 2020).   Plus possible damages.  Not to mention that they've already put themselves in the same view as WAS in terms of destinations FA's likely avoid out of mistrust for how their medical staff operates.   

Well done NYJ, well done NYJ.  SMH.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

Or..the Jets can triple down on dumb.... SMH x 100.

Let's be clear:

1.  Osemele is hurt, surgery confirms the severity is actually worse than the 3 outside opinions indicated, and they all were unanimous surgery was needed now.   And for the "it's all speculation" takes...that's cold, hard info.

2.  Cutting a guy who's injured is not OK under the CBA.   Doing so, while I'll defer to the legal guys, given #1 is not in dispute, the Jets are pretty much going to lose any grievance for all of 2019's money.  They can try the angle of "we didn't approve of the surgery"...it's going to lose so badly.  The outside opinion mechanism is the fundamental failsafe to ensure objective medical care is provided.

3.  The real interesting part - because the Jets' docs cleared him for the trade, and then cleared him to practice, and they ignored his statements that he was in more pain and unable to function - the potential for their decision leading to more damage is actually very much in play.   Again, I'll defer to the legal guys here - but it seems that at a MINIMUM, the Jets could end up being on the hook for at least the 11.2M for 2020, if not more.   He's certainly going to have a hard time to be cleared by the start of the 2020 league year in March 2020, if the damage is as bad as reported.

Well, Osemele would have a hard time being cleared by any doc outside the Jets docs, anyways.  Wow.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Broncofan

[bigbadbuff]

Jets gonna jets