Butler

[Duff]

15 hours ago, 3rivers said:

if this team wins/ does good without him, why not move on and keep the pieces that are here but could be gone UFA?  Sure, ben has some football left, but will it be as good preinjury, and was that even good enough anyways? Maybe it's his legacy playing down to the competition, not Tomlin?

I here you but even Ben at 75% is better than what we have. franchise QB's even old ones who know the system aren't easy to replace. If we can load up on some more talent (fast wr to stretch the field, a quality rb who is better than Conner and perhaps a new center) I think we will be right there as far as a SB push. We need to find a way to retain Dupree and Hargraves ... I don't know how you do that. Maybe we let Foster and Pouncey go and perhaps that will be enough to retain Hargrave and Dupree. On a separate note, tonight is going to be a big test for the defense. Cleveland has a pretty solid running game and they would be crazy not to utilize that against our defense. If they try to pass on us our rush is going to kill their o-line. We need the interior defense to play solid tonight.

[3rivers]

5 hours ago, Duff said:

I here you but even Ben at 75% is better than what we have. franchise QB's even old ones who know the system aren't easy to replace. If we can load up on some more talent (fast wr to stretch the field, a quality rb who is better than Conner and perhaps a new center) I think we will be right there as far as a SB push. We need to find a way to retain Dupree and Hargraves ... I don't know how you do that. Maybe we let Foster and Pouncey go and perhaps that will be enough to retain Hargrave and Dupree. On a separate note, tonight is going to be a big test for the defense. Cleveland has a pretty solid running game and they would be crazy not to utilize that against our defense. If they try to pass on us our rush is going to kill their o-line. We need the interior defense to play solid tonight.

ben at 75% , I am not sure about even if this is strictly at the QB positions. Sure, his resume has some stats, but he also has a huge cap value and a fair amount of influence on the OC and ultimately the salary cap that will affect the team overall.  We had all the talent last year, and we were hoping the browns would win in order to make the playoffs  

Sign both of them, trade ben and pouncey, simple as that. 

agree the interior needs to stop the run. I am observing to see if Butler decides on the base 3-4 or that light Nickel he plays which is vulnerable vs  the run.  This is what has this game a possible mismatch against us. Against the browns it's their OL vs our front.  

[Duff]

2 hours ago, 3rivers said:

Sign both of them, trade ben and pouncey, simple as that. 

You sure you want to trade Ben after the joke of a showing from Rudolph tonight? 

 

[VigilantZombie]

I also jumped off Butlers band wagon tonight. How the **** cant you get to Mayfield against that weak as OL

[3rivers]

5 hours ago, wwhickok said:

I also jumped off Butlers band wagon tonight. How the **** cant you get to Mayfield against that weak as OL

was it just me or did the front look a bit tired?

 

7 hours ago, Duff said:

You sure you want to trade Ben after the joke of a showing from Rudolph tonight? 

 

it was a bad showing. I still would like to hav the OL block sometimes and a healthy running back. But , as you are reminding me, Ben could somehow scrape up some points, albeit while having a defence that will also give up more. It might be a lost cause after all, the sky is falling again. Ben has had bad games too, but I can't stand the play calling as of late

[Duff]

9 hours ago, 3rivers said:

was it just me or did the front look a bit tired?

 

it was a bad showing. I still would like to hav the OL block sometimes and a healthy running back. But , as you are reminding me, Ben could somehow scrape up some points, albeit while having a defence that will also give up more. It might be a lost cause after all, the sky is falling again. Ben has had bad games too, but I can't stand the play calling as of late

It is so hard to judge the line and the run game without Ben and quite frankly Antonio. Those two more so than Bell made such a difference on the way defenses schemed against us. Not having a true deep threat or somebody who can create space and get open when they play breaks down really hurts this offense. The TE's can't get open underneath now because the safeties aren't worried about the threat of a deep pass they cover the TE release. Juju is getting doubled and they are all over his crossing patterns underneath because we have nobody to stretch the field. The defenses are stacking the box because they aren't worried about the pass let alone the deep ball. I honestly think the Oline has had it easy for the past few years and now they are struggling because we have no offensive weapons to pose a threat to the other team. It is easy to pin your ears back and blitz when you aren't worried about deep coverage or the qb you are going after isn't accurate with deep passes and only checks it down. Rudolph has the legs of Tom Brady, the processing and field vision of Kordell Stewart and the accuracy of Bubby Brister. If he could at least scramble he could extend the plays but he can't do that. His pocket awareness is terrible, he is skittish and his ability to find the second or third option is questionable at best. At east we know he isn't the long term answer.

[3rivers]

4 hours ago, Duff said:

It is so hard to judge the line and the run game without Ben and quite frankly Antonio. Those two more so than Bell made such a difference on the way defenses schemed against us. Not having a true deep threat or somebody who can create space and get open when they play breaks down really hurts this offense. The TE's can't get open underneath now because the safeties aren't worried about the threat of a deep pass they cover the TE release. Juju is getting doubled and they are all over his crossing patterns underneath because we have nobody to stretch the field. The defenses are stacking the box because they aren't worried about the pass let alone the deep ball. I honestly think the Oline has had it easy for the past few years and now they are struggling because we have no offensive weapons to pose a threat to the other team. It is easy to pin your ears back and blitz when you aren't worried about deep coverage or the qb you are going after isn't accurate with deep passes and only checks it down. Rudolph has the legs of Tom Brady, the processing and field vision of Kordell Stewart and the accuracy of Bubby Brister. If he could at least scramble he could extend the plays but he can't do that. His pocket awareness is terrible, he is skittish and his ability to find the second or third option is questionable at best. At east we know he isn't the long term answer.

I don't think ben could do much more with this defence except for his patented street football.  This team has serious issues on offence across the entire unit. 

[armsteeld]

Teryl Austin has been huge in my opinion. Add in Coach Tomlin and Coach Butler and the Steelers look prepared. However the greatest impact has been Minkah Fitzpatrick. You don’t believe me then watch this:

 

[3rivers]

Minkah has been a major improvement, but lets not forget actual communication (because of Minkah and possibly coaches, scheme change)  and then some other players such as Nelson (no TD's allowed?) and Bush and then also the improvement of Bud really deserves credit.  The leader of all this is Watt, so credit him as much as you want.  The best effort this defence has had since probably 2010, not much jogging, and decent gang tackling and chasing . 

The pressure from 4 allows for more in coverage, a major improvement there has the main influence, but Minkah is right there. I was all for the Minkah trade as soon as I saw the dolphins we're granting a trade request. I actually couldn't believe they would trade away yet another good player. Minkah is special, especially in coverage and as a centerfielder - QB's don't throw near him often . Thats quite the contrast when comparing to before Minkah arrived. 

Hey Arm, is there a chance they get a legit SS in the draft for depth that could replace Edmunds once given a chance? SS might need better reserves possible new starter.  I know Edmunds is here for the next 3 years, but just in case of injury etc. Davis isn't the answer pre injury and neither have been several other players since Troy

[jebrick]

Fitzpatrick has allowed Edmunds to play better which helps all of the safeties.  Edmunds will never be Polamalu but he has been worlds better in the last 8 games.

[Displayname]

2 hours ago, jebrick said:

Fitzpatrick has allowed Edmunds to play better which helps all of the safeties.  Edmunds will never be Polamalu but he has been worlds better in the last 8 games.

I can see edmunds being an more athletic dawan Landry type 

[jebrick]

30 minutes ago, Displayname said:

I can see edmunds being an more athletic dawan Landry type 

But he does not have the football smarts of Landry.  That is the huge difference

[3rivers]

9 hours ago, jebrick said:

But he does not have the football smarts of Landry.  That is the huge difference

He will never be a pro bowler, but perhaps a decent player that perhaps is well liked on the team and has good work ethic which this team could always appreciate.  It would really ice the defence if they scored a legit SS with range and instincts. How is the draft for SS this year? Maybe next year? NO $ for UFA, so it's all on the draft. 

If you look at the rest of the defence though, it's quite stacked and going to get better. Imagine if Shazier returned (close to what he was) and if they had a rangy SS with excellent tackling. 

[jebrick]

There are many other positions other than SS that the Steelers need

• a TE who can start year 1, at least as the #2
• another ILB - Although I think Grant is better than most of the ILBs in this draft.
• another depth EDGE
• potential LT
• OC backup if Finney leaves

[mwalker]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

There are many other positions other than SS that the Steelers need

• a TE who can start year 1, at least as the #2
• another ILB - Although I think Grant is better than most of the ILBs in this draft.
• another depth EDGE
• potential LT
• OC backup if Finney leaves

I'd also say OG to replace Foster. A DL to replace Hargrave. 
We have more needs than picks, for sure.