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Skippy

Is it time to switch to a 4-3 defense?

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Is it time to switch to a 4-3 defense? I bring this up because as of late I've been watching some very good defenses shred us with a 4-3 defense. I don't like the fact that we don't have a true 350 pound slob in the middle like a Raji. I think both of the Smith's would be just as good at the DE 4-3 position and it would allow us to dump a middle backer that we don't seem to relish anyways. I always thought the 3-4 defense was a defense built more to stop the run? Am I right or wrong on this? And if that's the case, well it's becoming a passing league. 

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I'm not so sure Preston Smith would be a good 4-3 DE.  Some people smarter than I am will try to convince everyone that the actual difference between a 4-3 and a 3-4 is negligible, but, like a defensive coordinator being in the booth as opposed to on the sideline, I just don't believe it. 

3-4 defense is all about disguising the extra rusher and all that and I just don't like it.  When was the last remotely talented QB to look confused by our defense?  I can't remember the last time.  When we come out with those 2 down linemen looks that just beg teams to run against us it just kills me. 

Also, the appeal of the 3-4 defense was that, for a very long time, teams were not taking those tweeners.  They were not putting much value in nose tackles who weighed 340 some pounds like Raji.  It worked out great for us in 2009.  We were able to get Raji and Matthews.  Now?  It doesn't matter if you run a 4-3 or a 3-4.  Teams are taking that talent and finding ways to use their ability.  Von Miller was playing in a 4-3 defense for a long time. 

The two biggest advantages to a 3-4 (disguise and talent dropping) are gone.  So why do teams keep running it? 

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57 minutes ago, Skippy said:

it would allow us to dump a middle backer

Does it though?

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Who is going to play linebacker on this roster? The Smith's and Gary are DE's in a 4-3. Fackrell could play SSLB but he probably leaves in free agency because we are clearly not going to give him a big contract. So who plays linebacker in this mythical scenario? 

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We run a

3-3 the most

2-3 the second most

2-4 the third most.

1-4 and 3-4 about the same

4-3 the least

Plus some goal line. 

The base defense is irrelevant. 

We average 5.23 DBs per season.

The base defense couldn't be less relevant

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I honestly don't think it matters what scheme you run. The play caller and discipline of your players are key. You can call standard simple coverages all game if you do your job and play hard you can shut down anyone. Pettine has had some bad habits of sticking with certain formations and coverages. But also even with how improved our defense has been there Is still mental errors with our players at times. I'm fine with what either direction our team goes with Pettine if it doesnt get any better, but I dont think changing schemes will give us much of an advantage.

Edited by Gopackgonerd

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Just now, Golfman said:

Who is going to play linebacker on this roster? The Smith's and Gary are DE's in a 4-3. Fackrell could play SSLB but he probably leaves in free agency because we are clearly not going to give him a big contract. So who plays linebacker in this mythical scenario? 

Re-sign Fackrell.
Re-sign Martinez (who is a top half ILB in a true 4-3)
Draft another off-ball LB in the second or third round. 

Burks also possibly improves in this type of role, too. 

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6 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

We run a

3-3 the most

2-3 the second most

2-4 the third most.

1-4 and 3-4 about the same

4-3 the least

Plus some goal line. 

The base defense is irrelevant. 

We average 5.23 DBs per season.

The base defense couldn't be less relevant

What we run has yielded some pretty crap results, suggesting that maybe it's time for change. 

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Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

We run a

3-3 the most

2-3 the second most

2-4 the third most.

1-4 and 3-4 about the same

4-3 the least

Plus some goal line. 

The base defense is irrelevant. 

We average 5.23 DBs per season.

The base defense couldn't be less relevant

This is irrelevant though.  Changing to a 4-3 is the principle behind it.  The very fact that we're running plays with 1 down linemen is enough.  In what scenarios do we have 2 or 1 DL?  Because we're currently 28th in the NFL at yards per rushing attempt.  Do you honestly believe we're that low if we aren't consistently putting 2 or ****ing one down lineman on the field?

Give me a screenshot of a couple of times where we come out in the 1 or 2 DL look and tell me it's not the most enticing look in the world to consistently pick up 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 20 yards a rush. 

You switch to a 4-3 and I think it changes your mentality a little bit.  You force quarterbacks to beat you by making it look tougher to run the ball against you.  If we EVER come out on first and 10 with a 1 or 2 down linemen look, Pettine deserves to be fired faster than a put in a good analogy of something here. 

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8 minutes ago, smetana34 said:

What we run has yielded some pretty crap results, suggesting that maybe it's time for change. 

Are you changing your entire philosophy?

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1-4 has been our best pressure package. Clark, Fackrell, Smith, Smith, Martinez. It's not a regular formation, it's for 3rd and long.

What the hell is the difference between a 4-2 and a 2-4. That's the most common nickel package that's run. 

We run more 3-3 than most teams who run a 4-2/2-4 asking Martinez to be the lone guy on the second level. But in that we have 5 first level defenders and 1 second level defenders. Rather than 4 and 2.

@Outpost31 meant to quote you

Edited by AlexGreen#20

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35 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Are you changing your entire philosophy?

Not mid season. But this winter, yes. There's too many resources being used on the defensive side of the ball to be a below average unit. 

 

What's changed from the first four or five games where our defense was great to now? Are we doing something different, or was that due to defenses typically being further ahead of offenses at the beginning of the season

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1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

Re-sign Fackrell.
Re-sign Martinez (who is a top half ILB in a true 4-3)
Draft another off-ball LB in the second or third round. 

Burks also possibly improves in this type of role, too. 

How much are you going to pay Fackrell and Martinez in this hypothetical situation? Also, we still need an OT and an interior D-lineman who can play. 

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Preston Smith as a Sam LB in a 4-3 with Gary and Z as 4-3 defensive ends would be fun to watch.  So would a philosophy that doesn’t have Martinez responsible for 37 thousand gaps.  Burks might even have some value as a Will.  
 

In nickel looks, just take Burks off the field.  
 

In Dime sets, put Preston at DE, Z or Gary next to Clark instead of whoever would be next to Clark.  
 

I want 4 DL every single play.  
 

I hate when our defense looks like the infamous Colts fake punt look.  

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Just now, Golfman said:

How much are you going to pay Fackrell and Martinez in this hypothetical situation? Also, we still need an OT and an interior D-lineman who can play. 

I changed my mind on Fack.  Forgot about Gary.  Preston as Sam.  Obviously.  Martinez pay market value and have him do what a market value ILB is supposed to do instead of expecting a 240 pound ILB to be able to do what the 260 pound Hightower is asked to do in NE.

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