5 ups/downs on the 2019 steelers season

[CKSteeler]

2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

his C cant snap the ball properly

Which isn't a new issue, as Tomlin himself admitted with no sense of urgency with regards to fixing it.

2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

his players cant seem to stop fumbling

I mean, call me crazy, but I question their commitment to the fundamentals when multiple guys on the team don't even know which arm to carry the ball in to minimize fumbling.

2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

the other two cant stop throwing picks

Did they do anything schematically on offense to help their QB's? Everyone wants to blame the offensive coordinator. There's another guy involved in all of it with more authority. If Tomlin is out of his element there, maybe he needs to find someone better.

 

2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

We should have gone 2-14 at beat. We finished 8-8

And next year I'm willing to bet we'll hear a similar refrain when the team is scratching and clawing for a wild card spot and has to socreboard watch again. Congrats on the mediocre season. He'd get more credit from me if he hasn't typically underachieved given the talent level on his roster. This iteration of the Steelers is actually something closer to what Tomlin would like to have or is more comfortable coaching, albeit not quite that bad on offense. He's a defensive coach who wants to play lower scoring games. Keep things close and win them late with splash plays.

5 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

Seriously what coach on this planet would you rather have than Tomlin that would be even remotely available?

This is always a myopic question as if coaches are given Madden ratings or something. Andy Reid is a good football coach who deserved to get fired in Philly. He needed to go. They never get a ring if they keep him around and the fact that they misfired when hiring his replacement doesn't make the decision to get rid of him any less right. Marty Schottenheimer was great if you were trying to rebuild your team and become relevant again. Not so much if you were trying to actually win a championship.

I can tell you that a number of coaches in the league would have gotten more out of the offense than Tomlin did this year and there's evidence to support that. Who knows what happens to the defense with the same talent level (it only took 9 first rounders or whatever the hell it is, but they finally fielded a defense!), though I do know plenty of people on these forums wanted Butler's head the last few years and wanted to ignore the fact that Tomlin's finger prints were all the defense from the scheme to play calls to the player selections.

The Packers got rid of a coach with a similar resume to Tomlin after two disappointing seasons (one where he was missing his QB for much of it). This year they're 13-3 and a #2 seed.Is Matt Lefleur as good a coach as McCarthy? Don't know, but odds are they aren't 13-3 if they keep McCarthy around because what he was doing in Green Bay had gotten stale and the players tuned him out. Lefleur will be lucky to accomplish what McCarthy did throughout his career, but the Packers weren't going to magically stop underachieving by doing the same thing over and over again because McCarthy had won a lot of games in the past.

So you picking up on two points? Sometimes a coach is the wrong guy for a certain job. Some rosters work to a coach's strength and some don't. Sometimes another guy has to come in and finish the job another coach started or a team needs a new message to get them over a hump or revitalize things.

5 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

9-6-1 could have EASILY have been 11-4-1.

And as I've said, I look forward to next year when the team is struggling for a Wild Card birth and people are saying the same things. Slightly overachieving and accomplishing mediocrity under duress this year isn't going to get me to change my opinion of him because I didn't see anything from him I already didn't know.

[bigben07MVP]

Kurgan,

I still think JuJu can be a #1. He looked off all season and I think injuries had a lot to do with that. Not having Ben didn’t help. DJ has shown enough to warrant attention away from JuJu, especially if he makes a jump in year 2 which I fully expect. Washington showed enough to be a WR3 and deep threat and hopefully they give Cain an opportunity to be the WR4.

Chick definitely deserves to be on the down list. I would get so pissed every time he would be the one to come in and give Watt/Dupree a breather. I mean wtf has this guy ever done or show in the regular season? So frustrating that we have to edge rushers who DOMINATE pre season and get literally no opportunities over a guy who has shown nothing in his career and gets paid way too much.

[bigben07MVP]

CK, 

You said a lot but somehow managed to still not answer the question.

[VigilantZombie]

CK, I'm not gonna quote that crap.

So last year, I felt Tomlin shouldve been on the hot seat. He didnt have the team prepared in far too many games.

Fichtner is a bobblehead nothing more.

Our D was terrible last year.

Our WBs were terrible this year.

This season isnt on Tomlin. We got several problems. He isnt it. Stop with the nonsense. I'm so tired of illogical fairweather fans 

Edited December 31, 2019 by wwhickok

[CKSteeler]

13 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

You said a lot but somehow managed to still not answer the question.

The question was answered. There are coaches out there who could take this roster further than Tomlin has. It's absolutely pointless to ask me to throw out the name of some hot coordinator or college coach. You probably had never even heard of Mike Tomlin when the Steelers hired him, but you act like you have me caught in some gottcha moment because I'm not going to say Greg Roman. I'm not a league executive. I don't get to interview coaches, and I don't have access to the same information they do.

16 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

This season isnt on Tomlin. We got several problems. He isnt it.

I look forward to your excuses for the guy next year when they underachieve once again.

[bigben07MVP]

Yinzers gonna yinz 

[CKSteeler]

I'm just going to give a specific answer for the fun of seeing your response. Go hire Greg Roman. I'm going to bet he breathes some fresh air into the offense and the defense doesn't skip a beat.

[VigilantZombie]

1 minute ago, CKSteeler said:

I'm just going to give a specific answer for the fun of seeing your response. Go hire Greg Roman. I'm going to bet he breathes some fresh air into the offense and the defense doesn't skip a beat.

This offense is not built for Greg Roman. We do not have a run-first QB. Greg Roman's offense worked with Kaepernick, RG3 and Lamar Jackson. 

 

[VigilantZombie]

11 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

The question was answered. There are coaches out there who could take this roster further than Tomlin has. It's absolutely pointless to ask me to throw out the name of some hot coordinator or college coach. You probably had never even heard of Mike Tomlin when the Steelers hired him, but you act like you have me caught in some gottcha moment because I'm not going to say Greg Roman. I'm not a league executive. I don't get to interview coaches, and I don't have access to the same information they do.

I look forward to your excuses for the guy next year when they underachieve once again.

I'm not making excuses for Tomlin. I'm not remotely saying he should take no responsibility but he was not our biggest issue.

[CKSteeler]

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

5 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

 

This offense is not built for Greg Roman. We do not have a run-first QB. Greg Roman's offense worked with Kaepernick, RG3 and Lamar Jackson. 

Roman has worked with pocket passers as well as mobile QB's. He's shown actual flexibility in his approach.

 

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

13 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

 

I'm not making excuses for Tomlin. I'm not remotely saying he should take no responsibility but he was not our biggest issue.

You call me fairweather, but I've been remarkably consistent on this over a period of years. My argument isn't fire Tomlin because of 2019. It's fire Tomlin because he's Mike Tomlin and everything that entails. You're the one letting an 8-8 season that could have been worse influence your argument.

[Lambert44]

Not a Tomlin fan. He is an above average coach. Making the same bad decisions over and over especially at crunch time in big games.

Losing to bad teams that have cost us playoffs. We have like 3 play of wins the last 7 -8 seasons (something like that).

We beat one team with a winning record this year. Did he keep the team together when it could of went really bad, yes.

 

 

[3rivers]

20 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Wtf is Tomlin supposed to do about the fact his WRs started the season dropping every pass. His RB cant stay healthy, his C cant snap the ball properly, his QB blew out his elbow, the other two cant stop throwing picks, his players cant seem to stop fumbling? He can only bench so many guys. He can scream in their face til he passes out about taking care of the football and execution, he cant make them do those things.

We should have gone 2-14 at beat. We finished 8-8 with a #4 QB, a rookie RB, and a struggling OL. But a monstrous Defense.

he could try to get the run game legit, but his OC is terrible and should be replaced. RB"s can't stay healthy is a problem, but he could have signed a vet for better depth but I thought Whyte is decent, just never got enough chances. Like the bills game, play to the bills strength instead of their weakness (pass instead of run but activate 5 RB's ) 

Defence was good but terrible vs legit rushing attacks.  TOP is something this team needs to get back, they can't win without it

[43M]

18 hours ago, Lambert44 said:

Not a Tomlin fan. He is an above average coach. Making the same bad decisions over and over especially at crunch time in big games.

Losing to bad teams that have cost us playoffs. We have like 3 play of wins the last 7 -8 seasons (something like that).

We beat one team with a winning record this year. Did he keep the team together when it could of went really bad, yes.

 

 

This is a fair assessment.

However, while we only beat one team with a winning record, we had a chance to win every game except the first game (ironically, the only game with a healthy Ben).   We played the Seahawks and 49ers really hard when, from a talent perspective, we shouldve probably been crushed.   At the end of the year, our lack of talent on offense just caught up to us.

This team couldve very easily just folded and finished 4-12, and that wouldve been LESS surprising that what actually happened.

Tomlin has plenty of flaws.   No one can deny that.     The problem is, fans have impossible standards because too many want to compare their coach to Belichick.     Top coaches like Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, Sean Peyton, John Harbarugh, Mike Zimmer, etc....have all shown major flaws in their coaching and team management at times.     

I dont have problem with people FAIRLY criticizing Tomlin or wanting a change, but its always comical seeing the usual suspects regurgitate the same garbage about how he is responsible for everything that goes wrong but somehow deserves zero credit for the strengths of the team...and act like it would be so easy to find a better coach.    Again, maybe the time for change is coming, but the chances of us doing worse are much better than our chances of doing better.   Not because Tomlin is a special coach, but because every single coach has their issues, and many have far more than Tomlin.   

 

[3rivers]

I have been a critic of tomlin in the past but he got a pass this season. Too bad he never told the OC to stay at home though, then this season might have been different. The defence is still vulnerable vs the run though, so that needs repair.  Out of everything to complain about, the OC is by far the biggest problem from the 2019 season. I know injuries are also to blame, but the OC was something else.

[Dcash4]

13 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Top coaches like Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, Sean Peyton, John Harbarugh, Mike Zimmer, etc....have all shown major flaws in their coaching and team management at times.

I can’t even imagine what the Steelers Fan base would be like if Andy reid was our coach. 

I just often find that too often Steelers fans (and probably fans in general) live their NFL knowledges lives in too much of a vacuum. It’s not a bright and shiny world of new coaches out there. It’s a dark scary one. 

Is Tomlin flawed? Yes. So is everyone other coach. But Tomlin is a top echelon coach who players LOVE to play for (which ironically, is part of his problem). 

The grass is not always greener and in the case of NFL coaching, it’s damn near impossible to improve from where we are now coaching wise.