Would we be playing the Saints today?

[Thaiphoon]

4 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Watching Bosa wreck the Vikings makes me want Chase Young on this team even more. 

Yup.

And for the last time (not pointing this at you @lavar703 )... wins and losses are a TEAM stat.

[Skins212689]

12 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Yup.

And for the last time (not pointing this at you @lavar703 )... wins and losses are a TEAM stat.

While the W/L is a TEAM stat you cant ignore the Impact Certain Players have on the game. Bosa Impact helped the Team get a WIN. Same could be said for Henry's Impact in his Team getting Wins over both the Pats and Ravens. Kirks impact in the OT is what got his team a Win over the Saints. The Defense Impact is what held Brees back from being the normal Brees we were use to seeing. 

[turtle28]

3 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

While the W/L is a TEAM stat you cant ignore the Impact Certain Players have on the game. Bosa Impact helped the Team get a WIN. Same could be said for Henry's Impact in his Team getting Wins over both the Pats and Ravens. Kirks impact in the OT is what got his team a Win over the Saints. The Defense Impact is what held Brees back from being the normal Brees we were use to seeing. 

Again, Kirk & Jimmy G canceled themselves out. They both threw for under 200 yards - Kirk bc of Theilan stopping his route which led to his int & Diggs drooping  a pass at the 10-yard-line - but the rest of the 49ers played awesome while the Vikings around Kirk played like crap!

The Vikings OL got dominated by the 49ers front 7. The 49ers OL dominated the Vikings front 7 on D. 
 

I’ll just tell you so you don’t have to click on my tweet:

• 186 yards rushing for 49ers

• 21 yards rushing for the Vikings

[Skins212689]

20 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Again, Kirk & Jimmy G canceled themselves out. They both threw for under 200 yards - Kirk bc of Theilan stopping his route which led to his int & Diggs drooping  a pass at the 10-yard-line - but the rest of the 49ers played awesome while the Vikings around Kirk played like crap!

The Vikings OL got dominated by the 49ers front 7. The 49ers OL dominated the Vikings front 7 on D. 
 

I’ll just tell you so you don’t have to click on my tweet:

• 186 yards rushing for 49ers

• 21 yards rushing for the Vikings

Here come the excuses. Like I've said many times before, if everything isn't perfect people find ways to make excuses for certain QB's. Make sure those same type of things are pointed out for all QB's. 

Does Lamar get that same excuse with his RB's only giving him 42 yards? While Lamar himself had over 100 yards rushing. 

Kirks Impact was never worth 84 million guarnteed! Haskins impact Is what I see leading the TEAM to playoff wins if surrounded by the right talent. Again I just hope Fans/Coaches go as hard for him as many went for Cousins. 

[turtle28]

9 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Here come the excuses. Like I've said many times before, if everything isn't perfect people find ways to make excuses for certain QB's. Make sure those same type of things are pointed out for all QB's. 

Does Lamar get that same excuse with his RB's only giving him 42 yards? While Lamar himself had over 100 yards rushing. 

Kirks Impact was never worth 84 million guarnteed! Haskins impact Is what I see leading the TEAM to playoff wins if surrounded by the right talent. Again I just hope Fans/Coaches go as hard for him as many went for Cousins. 

Its not an excuse, is an evaluation of the game. You should try that sometime instead of just focusing on Kirk.

I already told you that I like & believe in Haskins more than even you, that point has zero place here. This is how you’re wrongly analyzing Kirk’s play vs how poorly his team played around him.

Edited January 12, 2020 by turtle28

[lavar703]

5 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

Here come the excuses. Like I've said many times before, if everything isn't perfect people find ways to make excuses for certain QB's. Make sure those same type of things are pointed out for all QB's. 

Does Lamar get that same excuse with his RB's only giving him 42 yards? While Lamar himself had over 100 yards rushing. 

Kirks Impact was never worth 84 million guarnteed! Haskins impact Is what I see leading the TEAM to playoff wins if surrounded by the right talent. Again I just hope Fans/Coaches go as hard for him as many went for Cousins. 

I mean, I’m no Cousins guy but we’ve gone from being a 8-9 win team with no defense having Kirk at QB to one of the worst teams in football. He’s a good QB who gets criticized because of the situation surrounding this team when he took Roberts job. It became an issue that we aren’t allowed to discuss on this forum and everyone that said that’s why it happened were completely wrong and have absolutely refused to fess up to it and apologize for the crap they called Shanahan. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, lavar703 said:

I mean, I’m no Cousins guy but we’ve gone from being a 8-9 win team with no defense having Kirk at QB to one of the worst teams in football. He’s a good QB who gets criticized because of the situation surrounding this team when he took Roberts job. It became an issue that we aren’t allowed to discuss on this forum and everyone that said that’s why it happened were completely wrong and have absolutely refused to fess up to it and apologize for the crap they called Shanahan. 

Had me until the last point about Shanahan. I’m sure what you mean with:

“have absolutely refused to fess up to it and apologize for the crap they called Shanahan.”

I know my take has always been that Shanahan was an improvement for sure but he made mistakes too, going with Grossman and Beck and staking his reputation on it was a mistake. 

In 2012 how he handled RG3 at the end of 2012, RG3 should’ve been sat for the year after he hurt his knee vs Baltimore so he didn’t risk further injury which ended up happening vs Seattle when he tore his ACL.
 

And, @Thaiphoon was right at the beginning of 2013 - I was wrong - RG3 should’ve been out on the PUP list to start the season and not have come back to play until late October or I think actually November when he would’ve come off the PUP list, so chalk that up to another thing Shanahan did wrong. 
 

And while I admittedly could be wrong about the 3-4 D and it looks like I am but TBD on what Rivera/DelRio do with their 4-3 D over the next few years, Shanahan was the one who switched a top ten 4-3  D to bottom of the league 3-4 defense for most of decade except 2011 when Hasslet had our a 3-4 at top 15 but then in 2012, Bowen, Carriker abd Orakpo all got hurt.

Also, with that switch to the 3-4 we also lost Andre Carter who was coming off a 2009 10 sack season - he had one more with the Patriots after we cut him in 2011 - and Shanahan hired Hasslett and Shanahan has never built a better than average - usually bad defense in a decade of having full control of football operations his last 7 or 8 years in Denver and the 4 years in DC. 

2013 was a debacle with Shanahan and RG3 taking their feud to the media on all the stuff that should’ve stayed in house. The Shanahan’s were justifiably fired from the Redskins. Their record was 24-41 in four years in DC including the playoff loss.

Where Dan made the mistake was not firing Brice Allen too. What we’re doing now with Rivera and what looks like an entire restart should’ve been done in 2014 after/when Shanahan & Allen both were fired.

Edited January 13, 2020 by turtle28

[lavar703]

Shanahan was called a racist for benching Robert. That’s what I meant. And we aren’t allowed to talk about that stuff so it’s gotta stop there. 

[turtle28]

2 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Shanahan was called a racist for benching Robert. That’s what I meant. And we aren’t allowed to talk about that stuff so it’s gotta stop there. 

Oh ok, well that’s true. Got ya

[Thaiphoon]

8 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

Here come the excuses. Like I've said many times before, if everything isn't perfect people find ways to make excuses for certain QB's. Make sure those same type of things are pointed out for all QB's. 

Does Lamar get that same excuse with his RB's only giving him 42 yards? While Lamar himself had over 100 yards rushing. 

Kirks Impact was never worth 84 million guarnteed! Haskins impact Is what I see leading the TEAM to playoff wins if surrounded by the right talent. Again I just hope Fans/Coaches go as hard for him as many went for Cousins. 

You say to focus on how they did in the games.

You say that W/L are a team stat (meaning that the the responsibility for the W/L is on more than just the QB).

And then you retreat back to the same logic that tells me that you really don't believe that W/L are a team stat. 

Did Lamar do well in the game? Did Kirk? That's what we need to discuss. Both teams lost. But did the QB play as well as they could given how others around them played? 

It's not about having everything be perfect. As @turtle28 explained, it's about evaluating the game. And as @lavar703 said, we went from an 8 win team making the playoffs (or almost) to the worst team in football once Kirk left. So he does have an impact on our games. Does it mean that he's solely responsible for all of our wins? Nope. But his absence, is noted.

As for the salary, you really need to let it go. No one here cares. No one here wanted to pay him that much $$. 

As for Haskins? I will evaluate him the same way I evaluated Kirk, Robert, Rex, et al. Remember, the QB doesn't block for himself. He doesn't run routes. He doesn't play defense or special teams. If a QB plays well (or as well as can be expected with no blocking and receivers running wrong routes or dropping passes) but everyone else craps the bed, that's not on the QB. And if that happens to Dwayne, I'm not gonna punish him for it.

[naptownskinsfan]

8 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

Here come the excuses. Like I've said many times before, if everything isn't perfect people find ways to make excuses for certain QB's. Make sure those same type of things are pointed out for all QB's. 

Does Lamar get that same excuse with his RB's only giving him 42 yards? While Lamar himself had over 100 yards rushing. 

Kirks Impact was never worth 84 million guarnteed! Haskins impact Is what I see leading the TEAM to playoff wins if surrounded by the right talent. Again I just hope Fans/Coaches go as hard for him as many went for Cousins. 

Jackson made some pretty bad decisions in the option game which cost his running backs more opportunities for more yards.  You can also blame Greg Roman for calling Jackson to throw the ball almost 60 times, while the other RBs rushed for 42 yards on 9 carries.  Last I checked, that's a damn good average and it's not like the Titans were shutting down the run.  They were spread out to eliminate the runs outside of the tackle, specifically from Jackson.  So why didn't Roman respond with a Derrick Henry type plan running Ingram between the tackles?   The Ravens had the most rushing yards over the past 40 years or something like that, and Ingram and Edwards both averaged 5.0 YPC or better.  They clearly went away from the run, which is what got them there.  Jackson also turned the ball over three times, and he was stopped on two crucial fourth downs that gave up good field position.  

Don't get me wrong, there were numerous costly penalties that the Ravens took, as well as some pretty inexcusable drops, but the Ravens are not going to win with Lamar Jackson throwing the ball 60 times.  That's just not him at this point in his career.  If he can continue to progress as a passer, that might be him, but it's not right now.  After the whole season, I was really disappointed in how Roman called this game.  

[turtle28]

I still see Lamar Jackson as Michael Vick 2.0, except Vick had a stronger arm and was more accurate, ha! I remember arguing back and forth with Super Skins Fan a decade ago about Vick. He didn’t become a consistent drop back passer until the Eagles signed him and he got to sit for a year behind McNabb in 09 and learn/be developed by Andy Reid while watching McNabb in 09.

At this point Lamar is how Vick was as a young QB and how RG3 was/is; a run first QB who benefits from his zone read fakes and play action fakes which leave receivers wide open - especially his TEs bc the LBs are too concerned about stopping Lamar and the zone read running game.

Vick didn’t even have the zone read, could you imagine what records he’d set if the Falcons and Eagles ran a zone read with Vick from 2001-2007 and 2009-2013?

Vick was Lamar before Lamar w/ a stronger arm.

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

As said just please make sure you guys support Haskins through his rough times the same way Alot of you Can Still Support Cousins. That means, no calling for a new QB until his at least his 4 year in the league. 

Haskins Team has Wholes missing so Wins and Loses be sure to consider that as well. 

[Skins212689]

5 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

You say to focus on how they did in the games.

You say that W/L are a team stat (meaning that the the responsibility for the W/L is on more than just the QB).

And then you retreat back to the same logic that tells me that you really don't believe that W/L are a team stat. 

Did Lamar do well in the game? Did Kirk? That's what we need to discuss. Both teams lost. But did the QB play as well as they could given how others around them played? 

It's not about having everything be perfect. As @turtle28 explained, it's about evaluating the game. And as @lavar703 said, we went from an 8 win team making the playoffs (or almost) to the worst team in football once Kirk left. So he does have an impact on our games. Does it mean that he's solely responsible for all of our wins? Nope. But his absence, is noted.

As for the salary, you really need to let it go. No one here cares. No one here wanted to pay him that much $$. 

As for Haskins? I will evaluate him the same way I evaluated Kirk, Robert, Rex, et al. Remember, the QB doesn't block for himself. He doesn't run routes. He doesn't play defense or special teams. If a QB plays well (or as well as can be expected with no blocking and receivers running wrong routes or dropping passes) but everyone else craps the bed, that's not on the QB. And if that happens to Dwayne, I'm not gonna punish him for it.

I'll let it go when people stop tryna compare Redskins QB's to Kirk Cousin's and other player contracts. A guy who got 84 million guranteed and still hasn't gotten his "Bettter Talented Team" passed what Keenum did, yet some are already talking about getting rid of Haskins before at least 3 full seasons in the NFL. 

I see Haskins talented enough with the right coaching and assets around him able to take the team beyond Griffin and Cousin's. I just want people to allow him time to grow and learn before the bashing and calling for a new QB is mentioned. 

We have to see how Turner fits with Haskins. Will they add to OLine? Will they get a TE? Key pieces to a QB that Haskins doesn't have. Let's make sure Rivera fills these needs and has built a Contending Team before the need for QB is needed. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Skins212689

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

As said just please make sure you guys support Haskins through his rough times the same way Alot of you Can Still Support Cousins. That means, no calling for a new QB until his at least his 4 year in the league. 

Haskins Team has Wholes missing so Wins and Loses be sure to consider that as well. 

As we all said, if he performs well, we will and he’ll get slack as a young QB but if he makes mistakes he’ll be just as open to criticism as any other player in the Redskins roster.