Would we be playing the Saints today?

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

I'll let it go when people stop tryna compare Redskins QB's to Kirk Cousin's and other player contracts. A guy who got 84 million guranteed and still hasn't gotten his "Bettter Talented Team" passed what Keenum did, yet some are already talking about getting rid of Haskins before at least 3 full seasons in the NFL. 

I see Haskins talented enough with the right coaching and assets around him able to take the team beyond Griffin and Cousin's. I just want people to allow him time to grow and learn before the bashing and calling for a new QB is mentioned. 

We have to see how Turner fits with Haskins. Will they add to OLine? Will they get a TE? Key pieces to a QB that Haskins doesn't have. Let's make sure Rivera fills these needs and has built a Contending Team before the need for QB is needed. 

Yes, most of us will do exactly what you are wanting for a few more years as long as Haskins does what he did in December and is showing signs of continuous progress. 

But, it's still it's also true that Kirk was the best QB this team has had since Rypien and arguably consistently since Joe Theisman bc like Doug Williams and Jay Schroeder, Rypien and Brad Johnson only had one great year as a Redskins QB, not 3 straight good to great seasons who also continues to have good to great seasons in Minnesota while that didn't happen for Schroeder, Williams and Rypien after the Redskins moved on from them.

So, for you to not acknowledge how good Kirk is and that he keeps having at worse average's records with great personal production or that you wouldn't want him anymore is a major head scratcher for most of us, you choosing the 6 QBs we've had start the last two years and their 10-22 record with less than 4000 yards passing and far less than 30 passing TDs over Kirk who started every game for the Redskins for 3 years and threw for 4000 yds and near or over 30 TDs three straight years as our starter just doesn't add up.

It doesn't add up at all! The continuous onslaught of hatred Kirk receives even two years after he's left the redskins from some fans while the Redskins have tried 6 other QBs but go this point haven't found anyone close to as good as Kirk just absolutely makes no sense at all!

Even Alex Smith who I liked and believed would continue to improve as a Redskins QB when we got better weapons for him only was on pace to throw for 3500 yards and 18 TDs last year if he had stayed healthy for all 16 games.

Why would you chose a QB who is going to throw for 3500 yards and 18 TDs over a QB who at worst 4100 yards and 25 passing TDs (29 total including 4 rushing) just doesn't make sense.

You're choosing worse QBs over Kirk who haven't delivered as well as he has in the regular season or playoffs, but why? Bc he doesn't always deliver in the clutch? Well neither have the 6 QBs we've had the last two years since we didn't re-sign Kirk either. They've been far worse! I'd take 7 to 10 wins every year with Kirk over at best 7 wins and this past year 3-13 with Case, Colt and Dwayne starting.

I expect Dwayne to eventually be in the same category if Kirk - on the fringe of top 10 or a top 10 QB but not top 5 - but, I don't expect that for two more seasons in 2022 and by that time we would have missed 4 seasons of possible playoff appearances with Kirk as our QB.

Again, even if for some Unknown reason you hate Kirk - like he slept with your wife - choosing worse QBs over Kirk just makes zero sense. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

7 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Yes, most of us will do exactly what you are wanting for a few more years as long as Haskins does what he did in December and is showing signs of continuous progress. 

But, it's still it's also true that Kirk was the best QB this team has had since Rypien and arguably consistently since Joe Theisman bc like Doug Williams and Jay Schroeder, Rypien and Brad Johnson only had one great year as a Redskins QB, not 3 straight good to great seasons who also continues to have good to great seasons in Minnesota while that didn't happen for Schroeder, Williams and Rypien after the Redskins moved on from them.

So, for you to not acknowledge how good Kirk is and that he keeps having at worse average's records with great personal production or that you wouldn't want him anymore is a major head scratcher for most of us, you choosing the 6 QBs we've had start the last two years and their 10-22 record with less than 4000 yards passing and far less than 30 passing TDs over Kirk who started every game for the Redskins for 3 years and threw for 4000 yds and near or over 30 TDs three straight years as our starter just doesn't add up.

It doesn't add up at all! The continuous onslaught of hatred Kirk receives even two years after he's left the redskins from some fans while the Redskins have tried 6 other QBs but go this point haven't found anyone close to as good as Kirk just absolutely makes no sense at all!

Even Alex Smith who I liked and believed would continue to improve as a Redskins QB when we got better weapons for him only was on pace to throw for 3500 yards and 18 TDs last year if he had stayed healthy for all 16 games.

Why would you chose a QB who is going to throw for 3500 yards and 18 TDs over a QB who at worst 4100 yards and 25 passing TDs (29 total including 4 rushing) just doesn't make sense.

You're choosing worse QBs over Kirk who haven't delivered as well as he has in the regular season or playoffs, but why? Bc he doesn't always deliver in the clutch? Well neither have the 6 QBs we've had the last two years since we didn't re-sign Kirk either. They've been far worse! I'd take 7 to 10 wins every year with Kirk over at best 7 wins and this past year 3-13 with Case, Colt and Dwayne starting.

I expect Dwayne to eventually be in the same category if Kirk - on the fringe of top 10 or a top 10 QB but not top 5 - but, I don't expect that for two more seasons in 2022 and by that time we would have missed 4 seasons of possible playoff appearances with Kirk as our QB.

Again, even if for some Unknown reason you hate Kirk - like he slept with your wife - choosing worse QBs over Kirk just makes zero sense. 

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Is it if he makes progress or if the team makes progress? Witch is it people, is it a Team game or a Player who makes the difference? Haskins can't do it himself if the pieces aren't in place. So why should he be replaced if the Team isn't in better position to win? 

Kirk was a TO machine 2 years in the leauge and got benched for Colt McCoy! Yet was given time to grow and coach who uses his strengths on the field. Why shouldn't Haskins be given the same luxury? BECAUSE Cousins can give you on a STATS sheet? Not in the W/L column! To get a SuperBowl, you need more Wins.

Kirks Stats didn't result to any SuperBowls, so why are people consistently bringing up his Stats to defend him but yet say it's a Team game when he is called out for that 84 million dollar contract? You have those who will insult Collins for his deal but say Cousin's deserved 84 million. I'm not with that. 

Stop knocking others for their deals if your gonna protect or agree with the Cousin's deal. Once PEOPLE stop that, I'll stop advocating for all other player's. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Skins212689

[Skins212689]

17 hours ago, lavar703 said:

I mean, I’m no Cousins guy but we’ve gone from being a 8-9 win team with no defense having Kirk at QB to one of the worst teams in football. He’s a good QB who gets criticized because of the situation surrounding this team when he took Roberts job. It became an issue that we aren’t allowed to discuss on this forum and everyone that said that’s why it happened were completely wrong and have absolutely refused to fess up to it and apologize for the crap they called Shanahan. 

The criticism I'm giving him is for The contract he got yet hadn't won a playoff game and was very questionable in must win situations. Now in the 2nd year of his deal with a even More Talent on both sides of the ball, Kirk Cousins still hasn't gotten the Vikings past a Keenum lead team. 

So how is it right for people to not Criticize Kirk for that, but you have other's calling for a new QB to already replace Haskins and saying Collins/other player's are OVERPAID. Kirk Cousins is the most OVERPAID player I've seen outside of their rookie deals. Cousins got like 30 million or more guarnteed from us than got other 84 from the Vikings and has 1 PLAYOFF VICTORY on his resume. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Skins212689

[turtle28]

8 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Is it if he makes progress or if the team makes progress? Witch is it people, is it a Team game or a Player who makes the difference? Haskins can't do it himself if the pieces aren't in place. So why should he be replaced if the Team isn't in better position to win? 

Kirk was a TO machine 2 years in the leauge and got benched for Colt McCoy! Yet was given time to grow and coach who uses his strengths on the field. Why shouldn't Haskins be given the same luxury? BECAUSE Cousins can give you a STATS sheet? 

Kirk got benched for Colt bc he threw two bad interceptions vs the Titans after having two other games in September when he had bad ints. 
 

And, Actually in 2014 Kirk should’ve remained the starter when I look back on it but at the time I was more a fan of RG3 continuing to get chances to prove himself and I've always been a fan of Colt McCoy bc of his moxy, leadership and toughness. That win over the Cowboys in Dallas that on Monday night in 2014 was one of the greatest moments this decade for the Redskins... Sad, but true!

If you do the math on Kirk’s 2014 season, he and two bad games out of 4 w/ ints and a two bad ints vs the Titans which got him pulled for Colt in the second half of that game who brought us back for the win.

I’ve done the math many times and Kirk gave us the best chance to win in 2014 too. If he had stayed the starter in 2014, Kirk’s stats for 2014 would’ve been around:

62%, 4600 yds, 27 TDs and 15 interceptions in 15 games bc RG3 played the first game and a half of the season.

Again, he was our best option at QB even in 2014 too, not just 2015-2017 and still today if Brice had re-signed him. Those who said it back then - that had Kirk over RG3 were right - and I was wrong.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

22 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Kirk got benched for Colt bc he threw two bad interceptions vs the Titans after having two other games in September when he had bad ints. 
 

And, Actually in 2014 Kirk should’ve remained the starter when I look back on it but at the time I was more a fan of RG3 continuing to get chances to prove himself and I've always been a fan of Colt McCoy bc of his moxy, leadership and toughness. That win over the Cowboys in Dallas that eyes was one of the greatest moments this decade for the Redskins... Sad, but true!

If you do the math on Kirk’s 2014 season, he and two bad games out of 4 w/ ints and a two bad ints vs the Titans which got him pulled for Colt in the second half of that game who brought us back for the win.

I’ve done the math many times and Kirk gave us the best chance to win in 2014 too. If he had stayed the starter in 2014, Kirk’s stats for 2014 would’ve been around:

62%, 4600 yds, 27 TDs and 15 interceptions 

Again, he was our best option at QB even in 2014 too, not just 2015-2017 and still today if Brice had re-signed him. Those who said it back then - the had Kirk over RG3 were right - and I was wrong.

 

Kirk got benched because he deserved to get benched, than earned his starting spot back! I have nothing against the Kirk Cousins, it's the people who pick and choose witch QB they will actually keep/allow to grow and do All they can to make sure THAT GUY is successful. Say Haskins was to be benched, would people be saying "O he will oneday give you Kirk Cousin's stats" No they will be calling for a new QB. As said support Haskins the way AlOT still Support Kirk Cousins. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Skins212689

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

Kirk got benched because he deserved to get benched, than earned his starting spot back! I have nothing against the Kirk Cousins, it's the people who pick and choose witch QB they will actually keep/allow to grow and do All they can to make sure THAT GUY is successful. Say Haskins was to be benched, would people be saying "O he will oneday give you Kirk Cousin's stats" No they will be calling for a new QB. As said support Haskins the way AlOT still Support Kirk Cousins. 

No, it’s that fans who wanted to win games and compete for the playoffs each year wanted to continue to have the most productive and consistent QB the Redskins have had since Rypien and arguably since Theisman be the QB of the Redskins. I hope someday that Haskins can be as good as Kirk - I believe he’ll be that good or better bc he has the talent - and if Haskins ends up being the good, Guice stays and our young WRs and D play develop more and play up to their potential we’ll be a perennial playoff team and the best team in the NFCE most years over the next 10-15 years. If Haskins doesn't get to Kirk’s level - or better - we won't be a playoff team. I can't wait to watch Haskins and this young team develop over the next few years!

Edited January 13, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

34 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

No, it’s that fans who wanted to win games and compete for the playoffs each year wanted to continue to have the most productive and consistent QB the Redskins have had since Rypien and arguably since Theisman be the QB of the Redskins. I hope someday that Haskins can be as good as Kirk - I believe he’ll be that good or better bc he has the talent - and if Haskins ends up being the good, Guice stays and our young WRs and D play develop more and play up to their potential we’ll be a perennial playoff team and the best team in the NFCE most years over the next 10-15 years. If Haskins doesn't get to Kirk’s level - or better - we won't be a playoff team. I can't wait to watch Haskins and this young team develop over the next few years!

That productive QB still doesn't "Elevate Talent" worth 84 million guranteed so to all those who wanna complain about anyone's contract, Kirk Cousin's is ridiculous! 

It's great that you'll be patient with Haskins and Turner. 

Trent William's talent would "Elevate" the "Teams" OLine so that's why you give him guaranteed money if that's keeps him here. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Skins212689

[Thaiphoon]

12 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

I'll let it go when people stop tryna compare Redskins QB's to Kirk Cousin's and other player contracts. A guy who got 84 million guranteed and still hasn't gotten his "Bettter Talented Team" passed what Keenum did, yet some are already talking about getting rid of Haskins before at least 3 full seasons in the NFL. 

I see Haskins talented enough with the right coaching and assets around him able to take the team beyond Griffin and Cousin's. I just want people to allow him time to grow and learn before the bashing and calling for a new QB is mentioned. 

We have to see how Turner fits with Haskins. Will they add to OLine? Will they get a TE? Key pieces to a QB that Haskins doesn't have. Let's make sure Rivera fills these needs and has built a Contending Team before the need for QB is needed. 

Sometimes average QBs are on a very good team that puts it all together that year. Exhibit A = Chris Chandler in 1998.

Literally NO ONE on this forum wanted to keep Cousins for that $$. You seriously need to let it go. You're literally wasting your time type those words because frankly, I (and I know everyone else) don't care what he's getting paid as long as it's not our team paying it.

As for getting rid of Haskins, who has said to do that? I've seen some people do mocks when Tua was still uninjured, but haven't seen anyone credibly say we should get rid of him outside of VladimirL (and he never wanted him to begin with).

Haskins certainly has the talent to do as you describe. But as a coach, I can tell you that talent means much less than you'd think as to how great a player can become.

Agreed on the fit with Turner. Agreed on the OL and TE (NEED them!), but the irrational hatred for a guy who was a very solid starter for us and solidified the position (one where we had chaos for 20 years) and while he may not be an elite QB, is certainly near the top of the "very good" level of QBs (somewhere around 10-14)...is just mind-boggling.

Oh...and Trent needs to be traded. Get him to a better situation and let them deal with him while we pocket the pick(s) and move on.

[lavar703]

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

The criticism I'm giving him is for The contract he got yet hadn't won a playoff game and was very questionable in must win situations. Now in the 2nd year of his deal with a even More Talent on both sides of the ball, Kirk Cousins still hasn't gotten the Vikings past a Keenum lead team. 

So how is it right for people to not Criticize Kirk for that, but you have other's calling for a new QB to already replace Haskins and saying Collins/other player's are OVERPAID. Kirk Cousins is the most OVERPAID player I've seen outside of their rookie deals. Cousins got like 30 million or more guarnteed from us than got other 84 from the Vikings and has 1 PLAYOFF VICTORY on his resume. 

What was he supposed to do? Tell the Vikings they’re overpaying him and not accept the contract? You can go back and look at my old posts. I wanted the dude traded before anybody else on here even suggested it.
 

I had the @TheGreeK1973calling me out every Sunday because I wanted the dude shipped out of here. But with all that said, the guy is arguably one of the greatest fourth round picks ever. He deserves his fair share of criticism and not winning big games is a real problem but he earned his pay. The Jets were offering even more and he took less to go to Minnesota. It’s not like he’s a scrub. 

[turtle28]

21 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Sometimes average QBs are on a very good team that puts it all together that year. Exhibit A = Chris Chandler in 1998.

Literally NO ONE on this forum wanted to keep Cousins for that $$. You seriously need to let it go. You're literally wasting your time type those words because frankly, I (and I know everyone else) don't care what he's getting paid as long as it's not our team paying it.

As for getting rid of Haskins, who has said to do that? I've seen some people do mocks when Tua was still uninjured, but haven't seen anyone credibly say we should get rid of him outside of VladimirL (and he never wanted him to begin with).

Haskins certainly has the talent to do as you describe. But as a coach, I can tell you that talent means much less than you'd think as to how great a player can become.

Agreed on the fit with Turner. Agreed on the OL and TE (NEED them!), but the irrational hatred for a guy who was a very solid starter for us and solidified the position (one where we had chaos for 20 years) and while he may not be an elite QB, is certainly near the top of the "very good" level of QBs (somewhere around 10-14)...is just mind-boggling.

Oh...and Trent needs to be traded. Get him to a better situation and let them deal with him while we pocket the pick(s) and move on.

Had me until Trent needs to be traded! Lock him up on a 3-year deal $45 million extension when he shows up in May for voluntary OTAs with $15 million guaranteed at signing and $30 million in guarantees.

[turtle28]

17 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

What was he supposed to do? Tell the Vikings they’re overpaying him and not accept the contract? You can go back and look at my old posts. I wanted the dude traded before anybody else on here even suggested it.
 

I had the @TheGreeK1973calling me out every Sunday because I wanted the dude shipped out of here. But with all that said, the guy is arguably one of the greatest fourth round picks ever. He deserves his fair share of criticism and not winning big games is a real problem but he earned his pay. The Jets were offering even more and he took less to go to Minnesota. It’s not like he’s a scrub. 

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

Sometimes average QBs are on a very good team that puts it all together that year. Exhibit A = Chris Chandler in 1998.

Literally NO ONE on this forum wanted to keep Cousins for that $$. You seriously need to let it go. You're literally wasting your time type those words because frankly, I (and I know everyone else) don't care what he's getting paid as long as it's not our team paying it.

As for getting rid of Haskins, who has said to do that? I've seen some people do mocks when Tua was still uninjured, but haven't seen anyone credibly say we should get rid of him outside of VladimirL (and he never wanted him to begin with).

Haskins certainly has the talent to do as you describe. But as a coach, I can tell you that talent means much less than you'd think as to how great a player can become.

Agreed on the fit with Turner. Agreed on the OL and TE (NEED them!), but the irrational hatred for a guy who was a very solid starter for us and solidified the position (one where we had chaos for 20 years) and while he may not be an elite QB, is certainly near the top of the "very good" level of QBs (somewhere around 10-14)...is just mind-boggling.

Oh...and Trent needs to be traded. Get him to a better situation and let them deal with him while we pocket the pick(s) and move on.

You said talent doesn't matter? What!? Is this now again to defend that Kirks weapon in Minnesota aren't better than his here? Please don't let it be. 

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

You said talent doesn't matter? What!? 

No. You need to improve your reading comprehension. My exact quote is:

Quote

Haskins certainly has the talent to do as you describe. But as a coach, I can tell you that talent means much less than you'd think as to how great a player can become.

Nowhere in that statement do I say that talent does not matter. 

I said it means much less than you'd think (better yet - I'll make the font size large so you don't miss it this time). 

Quote

Is this now again to defend that Kirks weapon in Minnesota aren't better than his here? Please don't let it be. 

I'm talking about Haskins. Right now, he is not a better QB than Kirk. He has the talent to be better, that's for sure. But talent is not going to get him to where he needs to be. Unless he works to develop his talent and improve at all the other aspects of being a QB, he is not going to realize the potential that his talent hints at. And THAT was my point. Talent alone does not make a great player. Some of my BEST players have been guys who were on a rung lower (in terms of talent) but hustled and learned and developed their game. And then I had some guys who were off the charts talented, who wasted it.

[Thaiphoon]

5 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Had me until Trent needs to be traded! Lock him up on a 3-year deal $45 million extension when he shows up in May for voluntary OTAs with $15 million guaranteed at signing and $30 million in guarantees.

Yeah, I know we disagree. But if the team chooses (wrongly IMHO) to extend him another 3 years, then I can see that as the contract.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

Yeah, I know we disagree. But if the team chooses (wrongly IMHO) to extend him another 3 years, then I can see that as the contract.

Just a suggestion Mr. Mod, but considering this thread is going nowhere, perhaps it's time for Mr. Lockey?