The MMA Thread | Jones-Miocic officially set for UFC 309 at MSG in November

[JaguarCrazy2832]

I didnt have a problem with the stoppage, Jiri falling back like that is not a normal MMA move, wasnt like he was pulling guard or jumping to a sub, he was going down. 

Aspinal looked like maybe Sergei hurt him a bit on the feet but guess not. He is so fast. 

[Soggust]

Awful stoppage imo. 

It doesn't matter if he's out, in my mind. That's revisionist reffing and we don't get the benefit of hindsight.

The standard is in the consistency and we saw all night long fights go arguably wayyy too long. I thought the Red Cross was going to stop that Borschev / Sadykov fight.

Stopping a main event and title fight that early was inconsistent comparatively not only to fights earlier that night, but to a standard stoppage in general. 

[BullsandBroncos]

1 hour ago, Soggust said:

Awful stoppage imo. 

It doesn't matter if he's out, in my mind. That's revisionist reffing and we don't get the benefit of hindsight.

The standard is in the consistency and we saw all night long fights go arguably wayyy too long. I thought the Red Cross was going to stop that Borschev / Sadykov fight.

Stopping a main event and title fight that early was inconsistent comparatively not only to fights earlier that night, but to a standard stoppage in general. 

Jiri literally went limp and fell back at the same time 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

3 hours ago, Soggust said:

Awful stoppage imo. 

It doesn't matter if he's out, in my mind. That's revisionist reffing and we don't get the benefit of hindsight.

The standard is in the consistency and we saw all night long fights go arguably wayyy too long. I thought the Red Cross was going to stop that Borschev / Sadykov fight.

Stopping a main event and title fight that early was inconsistent comparatively not only to fights earlier that night, but to a standard stoppage in general. 

lol what? Revisionist? It just means the ref was right in stepping in

[BullsandBroncos]

6 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

lol what? Revisionist? It just means the ref was right in stepping in

I think we found Mario Yamasaki's burner account 

[DreamKid]

On 10/26/2023 at 7:52 PM, DreamKid said:

What's crazy is there's a chance the interim belt is defended before that Jon-Stipe fight even happens..........

Aspinall and Pavlovich are essentially both in their prime and barring injury neither would be motivated to sit out the 8 months it's gonna take for Jon to get back. So in 4-5 months we could see one them defending the interim belt.

Then if the rumors are true, and Stipe and Jon both retire after their fight, the interim belt holder will be promoted to undisputed status.

The entire situation is beyond weird. 

Rest of the MMA community catching up to our talking points from a month ago. It's weird that these guys didn't think about this scenario until just now.

 

[Soggust]

16 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

lol what? Revisionist? It just means the ref was right in stepping in

Well, if we set the bar at "did the guy admit that he was KO'd", then I don't think we will have very many good stoppages going forward because most people aren't going to admit it with the class Jiri did (assuming he's being honest). Therefore, I think it's only appropriate to judge based upon the information we know at the time (i.e. - not revisionist).

Goddard was stopping it before it hit the mat, based on an arm flailing. He didn't see Jiri's eyes, bc Jiri's head was buried into Alex's hips. If your position is that the Robbie Lawler / Ben Askren stoppage was also good bc he flailed his arm down, then we will have to agree to disagree. 

Your point is fair and it's strong, but I'll just pivot my argument to blaming Keith Peterson instead. Again, we saw multiple fights earlier that night that went exponentially longer in much more dire scenarios. We have seen many times in UFC history (Ben/Lawler, Jiri/Reyes, etc) where a fighter actually gets flash KO'd and wakes up immediately. We know that Main events and title fights should get more leniency than a traditional fight.

My real beef I suppose is not with the call, but the consistency.

 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

29 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Rest of the MMA community catching up to our talking points from a month ago. It's weird that these guys didn't think about this scenario until just now.

 

Seriously though who does he fight? Gane?

[JaguarCrazy2832]

2 minutes ago, Soggust said:

Well, if we set the bar at "did the guy admit that he was KO'd", then I don't think we will have very many good stoppages going forward because most people aren't going to admit it with the class Jiri did (assuming he's being honest). Therefore, I think it's only appropriate to judge based upon the information we know at the time (i.e. - not revisionist).

Goddard was stopping it before it hit the mat, based on an arm flailing. He didn't see Jiri's eyes, bc Jiri's head was buried into Alex's hips. If your position is that the Robbie Lawler / Ben Askren stoppage was also good bc he flailed his arm down, then we will have to agree to disagree. 

Your point is fair and it's strong, but I'll just pivot my argument to blaming Keith Peterson instead. Again, we saw multiple fights earlier that night that went exponentially longer in much more dire scenarios. We have seen many times in UFC history (Ben/Lawler, Jiri/Reyes, etc) where a fighter actually gets flash KO'd and wakes up immediately. We know that Main events and title fights should get more leniency than a traditional fight.

My real beef I suppose is not with the call, but the consistency.

 

It is incredibly hard to be consistent when each fight could be different unlike how holding in the NFL for the most part is the same no matter the game: how many times have we seen a guy in his knees like Jiri fall back like that? Its pretty rare and looked very awkward which is why it was stopped imo

the lawler/askren one is another that visually looked very awkward with the arm going limp but i get your point

As much crap as refs and judges get, the tough calls are why people shouldn’t complain so much(now there are plenty of reasons like being a dissenting judge in an obvious fight or your name being Yamasaki)

[DreamKid]

1 hour ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Seriously though who does he fight? Gane?

That would essentially be 4 title shots in 6 fights for Gane. He fought against Lewis for the interim belt, against Ngannou for the belt, and then again against Jon for the vacant belt. Yet, he's really the only guy that makes sense besides maybe Volkov- who is on a 3 fight win streak but already lost to Aspinall and Gane, so there might not be much interest. 

I know a lot of English fans are calling for a stadium show now with Aspinall and Leon(Should he get past Colby). So 'England vs France' with Gane attached could be a big selling point over there. 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

55 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

That would essentially be 4 title shots in 6 fights for Gane. He fought against Lewis for the interim belt, against Ngannou for the belt, and then again against Jon for the vacant belt. Yet, he's really the only guy that makes sense besides maybe Volkov- who is on a 3 fight win streak but already lost to Aspinall and Gane, so there might not be much interest. 

I know a lot of English fans are calling for a stadium show now with Aspinall and Leon(Should he get past Colby). So 'England vs France' with Gane attached could be a big selling point over there. 

Yea HW desperately needs to get figured out at the top with Bones/Stipe because it is gross

Gane just crushed Spivak...but everyone remembers how awful he looked v Bones so can you really turn him around that quickly?....but he is ranked #1

Volkov is on a streak but his streak is still people Gane beat first and Gane beat Volkov plus and most importantly Aspinall already beat Volkov in R1 so there is 0 reason to run that back over Gane

Blaydes would be interesting but he is coming off a R1 L to Pavlovich so there is no way he deserves it

Jalton Almeida, if he finished Lewis in R1 like it looked like he was going to then maybe he jumps the line but not now

[JonStark]

4 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Gane just crushed Spivak...but everyone remembers how awful he looked v Bones so can you really turn him around that quickly?....but he is ranked #1

Full disclosure, I'm a Gane stan, but his only two losses shouldn't really be held against him as much as they are.

First loss was to the best HW on the planet and Gane's inexperience cost him, as Francis' wrestling completely caught him off guard. This is a legit loss, but it's not like he lost to some chump. 

Second loss was to the GOAT, where Gane made one mistake by throwing that straight and Bones did GOAT things. Plenty of fighters get away with making a single mistake in a fight, but when you're fighting a guy like Bones, that's enough to cost you the entire fight. We didn't get to see enough to say he looked awful, but that's more of a credit to Jones IMO. 

Everyone else Gane has fought, he's dominated. Closest one was Tai, but that was really only because of that one shot. Otherwise it was a clinic. I don't know if Gane is good enough to beat Tom, but Tom also isn't on Francis/Bones' level yet so I think it would be the fight to make. That being said, I'll admit it is weird to give him another interim title shot. The whole HW landscape is going to be held hostage by Bones and Stipe so it's going to be a mess for a while. 

[DreamKid]

This would be a monster Wembley Stadium show-

Main Card

Tom Aspinall vs Ciryl Gane

Leon Edwards vs Belal Muhammed

Alexander Volkanovski vs Arnold Allen

Michael 'Venom' Page vs Ian Garry

Muhammad Mokaev vs loser of Kape/Nicolau

 

First two are obvious, involving England's champs and then those opponents would both sell well across the pond. Volk's last interesting opponent in the FW division is Topuria, and now that he lost to Islam he'll kind of be forced to stay at 145 for a little bit so they'll have to get creative if he does win in February. Arnold Allen beating Evloev would make him the obvious #1 contender, and a fight vs Volk in Wembley Stadium would at least be fun. If the UFC does acquire Page, and they've expressed interest, a fight vs Garry in England makes all the sense in the world. Then rounding out the main card you have Mokaev, who is a UK citizen and represented England in freestyle wrestling, trying to cement his Top FLW prospect status against the loser of that Manuel Kape vs Matheus Nicolau fight in January. 

I think that's a realistic yet massive card the UFC could put on. 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

1 hour ago, JonStark said:

Full disclosure, I'm a Gane stan, but his only two losses shouldn't really be held against him as much as they are.

First loss was to the best HW on the planet and Gane's inexperience cost him, as Francis' wrestling completely caught him off guard. This is a legit loss, but it's not like he lost to some chump. 

Second loss was to the GOAT, where Gane made one mistake by throwing that straight and Bones did GOAT things. Plenty of fighters get away with making a single mistake in a fight, but when you're fighting a guy like Bones, that's enough to cost you the entire fight. We didn't get to see enough to say he looked awful, but that's more of a credit to Jones IMO. 

Everyone else Gane has fought, he's dominated. Closest one was Tai, but that was really only because of that one shot. Otherwise it was a clinic. I don't know if Gane is good enough to beat Tom, but Tom also isn't on Francis/Bones' level yet so I think it would be the fight to make. That being said, I'll admit it is weird to give him another interim title shot. The whole HW landscape is going to be held hostage by Bones and Stipe so it's going to be a mess for a while. 

I'm not sure the "getting caught off guard" thing is a valid argument when the guy wrestling you has no knees but I agree they are elite level competition but the Bones win will be so publicly pushed that it makes Gane look bad

[DreamKid]

🤷‍♂️ No Conor or Jones pretty much kills the 'Spectacle' or 'Mega Card' potential for UFC 300. Islam will probably miss the card because of Ramadan. Volk no longer carries the same casual fan hype after getting KO'd on two weeks notice. Brock and GSP are retired for good. And your only active HW champ holds the interim belt.... 

Century cards are opportunities to grow the sport by creating events so big they not only satisfy casual and hardcore fans, but also attract an audience that wouldn't normally watch any MMA at all- it's a Super Bowl/World Cup type moment for the UFC. 

Look up a list of 'Most Followed UFC Fighters' and notice how every one of them is either A. Projected to miss UFC 300, B. Not a champion(Can't headline in title fight), C. No longer with the company, or D. Retired.

Good luck Dana.