iknowcool Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, dtait93 said: Newton sucks lmfao. So what's your top 10, and who are you bumping Newton off for? I think ya'll are just saying stuff without actually thinking about the past decade. Newton scored 240 touchdowns in the 2010s and led a team to a 15-1 record and a Super Bowl appearance. To say he sucks is absolutely ignorant, but even if you think he's not that good, I'm not sure who you are taking off the top 10 for him. Eli Manning? Andy Dalton? Carson Palmer? Come on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, iknowcool said: Who are your top 10 QBs for the 2010s? If you think Newton is overrated, fair enough and we have had debates about Newton before so no reason to go back down that well. I'm just not exactly sure who you are bumping off the list for him. It's easy to say he doesn't belong anywhere near the top 10 when you aren't actually posting your own. If you actually sit down and think about your list, I have a hard time believing you wouldn't have Newton in your top 10 or at the very least, top 12 (which would mean he's close). Here are stats for the prominent 2010s QBs Which one of those QBs who weren't in the aforementioned top 10 lists are you bumping off for Newton? Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, Big Ben, Wilson, Luck, and Stafford are 9 QBs who I'm certain you would say are above Cam, but that's only 9 guys. But who is the other one from that list you are taking over Newton this decade? And how many not on that list are you taking over Newton that makes you say he wouldn't even be close to the top 10? The only QB I can think of would be Peyton Manning, but you would have to be putting a ton of stock into his 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2014 seasons. Newton in part is fortunate to have played his career through primarily one decade. a lot of guys were on the decline after a part of the decade or just getting started. Some of these guys were better early in the decade, some were better later. Cam Newton was never a top 10 passer, but the window in time that his career has been benefits him here and skews the picture. Guys who've played since the late 2000's (like 07/08) who are better than him. This is just so we get a more telling picture. Peyton Brady Brees Roethlisberger Rodgers Wilson Rivers Ryan Romo Stafford Luck Amongst other arguable guys, like Carson Palmer, Kirk Cousins etc. Then you have young guys who are all better than him but haven't been in the league long enough and just aren't going to benefit from the decade line: Mahomes Prescott Wentz Watson (Lamar Jackson suuuuuper Early) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, iknowcool said: So what's your top 10, and who are you bumping Newton off for? I think ya'll are just saying stuff without actually thinking about the past decade. Newton scored 240 touchdowns in the 2010s and led a team to a 15-1 record and a Super Bowl appearance. To say he sucks is absolutely ignorant, but even if you think he's not that good, I'm not sure who you are taking off the top 10 for him. Eli Manning? Andy Dalton? Carson Palmer? Come on now. I'll come up with my list later, but even if he isn't bumped out of the top 10 it wouldn't change the fact that he sucked. He's equal to or worse than Andy Dalton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Danger said: If Cam really was a top 10 QB of the past decade. Why is his current team looking to move on from him when he's just 30? (Prime for a QB) This is false. The Panthers aren't looking to get rid of Newton for the sake of doing so. It is dependent on his health. We are waiting until March to work him out and see how he is. You make it seem like he didn't just need foot surgery in November/December. If he's healthy, it would be a huge surprise to see him gone. The only way he's released is if he's not healthy by March, which according to him he is. But we can't work him out until then, so alas. Edited February 12, 2020 by iknowcool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, dtait93 said: I'll come up with my list later, but even if he isn't bumped out of the top 10 it wouldn't change the fact that he sucked. That isn't a fact. You just don't know what you're talking about if your actual player evaluation of Cam Newton is that he sucks. Average/Inconsistent? Yea, sure, maybe. But sucked? Yea, I'm just gonna assume your player evaluations are terrible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Danger said: Newton in part is fortunate to have played his career through primarily one decade. a lot of guys were on the decline after a part of the decade or just getting started. Some of these guys were better early in the decade, some were better later. Cam Newton was never a top 10 passer, but the window in time that his career has been benefits him here and skews the picture. Okay... but the thread is top 10 QBs of 2010s. What does someone being better in 2008 have to do with that? And if that's the case, then why is Newton the only one who drew your ire? Stafford wouldn't be a top 10 QB either if we considered 2008 or QBs playing right now. Hence why the thread is top 10 QBs of the 2010s. Do you agree or not agree that Newton is a top 10 QB of the 2010s? Edited February 12, 2020 by iknowcool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidPanther89 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Danger said: It's a nice asset, but when you're a bad passer, being a good runner doesn't do enough to make up for that. But hey, since we're talking about how good of a QB he is, lets look at his team, and how they performed lately. He's lost 9 of his last 10 games he's played, the lone win was against the Saints who were resting their starters back in 2018. If you're not going to acknowledge the fact that he was playing hurt for those game then you're just being willfully ignorant. Cam is definitely top ten of the decade. What you don't understand is that Cam isn't playing the game to rack up completion percentages and stats so you can argue his case on an internet forum. He plays to win. Why should he dink and dunk for 5 yard passes when the smart play is for him to run for the first down when he can't trust his crap WR to catch the ball. His ability to affect the game the plan and convert 3rd downs in combination with his huge arm talent when he was healthy puts his right up there with Stafford and Ryan at least. Also Cam has been just as clutch as Ryan and Brees. What's the point of all the stats when you choke when the game is on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, iknowcool said: That isn't a fact. You just don't know what you're talking about if your actual player evaluation of Cam Newton is that he sucks. Average/Inconsistent? Yea, sure, maybe. But sucked? Yea, I'm just gonna assume your player evaluations are terrible. He's below average and inconsistent. That makes you bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, RabidPanther89 said: If you're not going to acknowledge the fact that he was playing hurt for those game then you're just being willfully ignorant. Cam is definitely top ten of the decade. What you don't understand is that Cam isn't playing the game to rack up completion percentages and stats so you can argue his case on an internet forum. He plays to win. Why should he dink and dunk for 5 yard passes when the smart play is for him to run for the first down when he can't trust his crap WR to catch the ball. His ability to affect the game the plan and convert 3rd downs in combination with his huge arm talent when he was healthy puts his right up there with Stafford and Ryan at least. Also Cam has been just as clutch as Ryan and Brees. What's the point of all the stats when you choke when the game is on the line. He was nothing more than mediocre as a passer even when he was healthy aside from the 2nd half of 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, dtait93 said: He's below average and inconsistent. That makes you bad. So someone who you agreed might not get bumped off the top 10 QBs of the 2010s is bad? You must have ridiculously high standards then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidPanther89 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Danger said: Newton in part is fortunate to have played his career through primarily one decade. a lot of guys were on the decline after a part of the decade or just getting started. Some of these guys were better early in the decade, some were better later. Cam Newton was never a top 10 passer, but the window in time that his career has been benefits him here and skews the picture. Guys who've played since the late 2000's (like 07/08) who are better than him. This is just so we get a more telling picture. Peyton Brady Brees Roethlisberger Rodgers Wilson Rivers Ryan Romo Stafford Luck Amongst other arguable guys, like Carson Palmer, Kirk Cousins etc. Then you have young guys who are all better than him but haven't been in the league long enough and just aren't going to benefit from the decade line: Mahomes Prescott Wentz Watson (Lamar Jackson suuuuuper Early) Luck maybe arguable but to suggest Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, and Prescott are better than Cam just shows you don't watch him play and just eat up false media narratives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, RabidPanther89 said: Luck maybe arguable but to suggest Stafford, Ryan, Rivers, and Prescott are better than Cam just shows you don't watch him play and just eat up false media narratives. I've absolutely watched him play. They're all better than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) It's always funny when Luck and Newton get brought up together, considering they were in identical situations. Both #1 overall picks to bleh teams. Luck was a gunslinger behind a bad OL, a bad mixture. Newton was a gunslinger behind a bad OL, a bad mixture. The difference is Newton has his passing numbers held against him, as a proof that he couldn't pass well, despite the fact any coach or football mind worth his mettle thought highly of him. Andrew Luck (86 games): 60.8 CMP%, 171 passing touchdowns (5.2 TD%), 83 interceptions (2.5 INT%), 7.2 Y/A, 89.5 QB Rating, 1590 rushing yards, 14 rushing TDs, 114 first downs, 2012 OROY Cam Newton (125 games): 59.6 CMP%, 182 passing touchdowns (4.6% TD%), 108 interceptions (2.7 INT%), 7.3 Y/A, 86.1 QB Rating, 4806 rushing yards, 58 rushing TDs, 367 first downs, 2011 OROY, 2015 OPOY, 2015 MVP Yet nobody holds Luck's CMP% against him even though he undoubtedly had better receivers on average than Cam. It's funny and sad at the same time. Newton was undeservedly stuck with the "bad passer" label his entire career while Luck was always seen as the QB prodigy, although his play-style was closer to Newton's than people would like to admit. Newton wasn't Brees, but he could have been a high CMP% passer in his career in a different scheme. And that's all CMP% is. It is far more reflective of the offensive design than it is the QB. Edited February 12, 2020 by iknowcool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, iknowcool said: It's always funny when Luck and Newton get brought up together, considering they were in identical situations. Both #1 overall picks to bleh teams. Luck was a gunslinger behind a bad OL, a bad mixture. Newton was a gunslinger behind a bad OL, a bad mixture. The difference is Newton has his passing numbers held against him, as a proof that he couldn't pass well, despite the fact any coach or football mind worth his mettle thought highly of him. Andrew Luck (86 games): 60.8 CMP%, 171 passing touchdowns (5.2 TD%), 83 interceptions (2.5 INT%), 7.2 Y/A, 89.5 QB Rating, 1590 rushing yards, 14 rushing TDs, 114 first downs, 2012 OROY Cam Newton (125 games): 59.6 CMP%, 182 passing touchdowns (4.6% TD%), 108 interceptions (2.7 INT%), 7.3 Y/A, 86.1 QB Rating, 4806 rushing yards, 58 rushing TDs, 367 first downs, 2011 OROY, 2015 OPOY, 2015 MVP Yet nobody holds Luck's CMP% against him even though he undoubtedly had better receivers on average than Cam. It's funny and sad at the same time. Newton was undeservedly stuck with the "bad passer" label his entire career while Luck was always seen as the QB prodigy, although his play-style was closer to Newton's than people would like to admit. Newton wasn't Brees, but he could have been a high CMP% passer in his career in a different scheme. And that's all CMP% is. It is far more reflective of the offensive design than it is the QB. Hell, now that I look at it... what exactly is the argument for Luck being in the top 10 without question but not Cam? I actually think Luck was better than Newton, but it's hilarious how that gets no pushback whatsoever but Newton does (for obvious reason - he's never been well liked). And Newton by far had the best season between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, iknowcool said: So someone who you agreed might not get bumped off the top 10 QBs of the 2010s is bad? You must have ridiculously high standards then. Of course I do. Who wouldn’t? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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