2020 NFL Draft: Discussion, Reports, Rumors, and Studies

[GangGreen420]

Needs to be an official WR vs OT poll

[rampantjet]

5 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

Honestly, I wouldn't be THAT upset with a WR because it's easy to get behind adding an explosive playmaker - I just don't believe it's the smart way to build a team. The value of adding an OT IMO is far greater even if it's not as much "fun". I think Edoga/Fant have the potential to ruin this offense. I certainly don't love Perriman/Crowder/? but I don't see the negative consequences of that group being nearly as dramatic, especially when you factor in Bell/Herndon and the depth of this draft class. Simple as that.

Admittedly, I'm no expert OL scout - I read a substantial amount from the sources I trust. I could sit here and regurgitate what I've read as my own, but what's the point? Enough people do that already. I'm comfortable concluding from what I've read and the tape I've watched that Wills, Becton, Wirfs and Thomas are all blue chip elite prospects that warrant our selection. I wouldn't favor OT if I didn't believe the talent matched or exceeded that of the top WRs. 

My WR rankings: 

1) CeeDee Lamb -  Pros: Fluid/explosive athlete, dangerous YAC ability, strong hands and natural technique catching the ball. Cons: Needs to be a more definitive route runner

What separates Lamb from Jeudy//Ruggs IMO is his ability to win 50/50 contested catches - Specifically, he attacks the ball better than the other two (Not just talking jump balls). He can beat you with finesse underneath or bail a quarterback out deep. Great hands and obviously deadly after the catch. Elite body control tracking the football. Not worried about his speed. More than willing and able as a blocker. Prototypical #1 potential. Comparison: Devante Adams.

2) Jerry Jeudy - Pros: Route running, foot and top end speed. Cons: Drops + Body Catcher, Physicality

The safest of the three IMO. He's obviously an elite route runner - Will be among the leagues most talented from day one. For that reason, I think you can feel good about his floor and instant production as a high volume receiver. His drops/lack of concentration are a legitimate concern as is his physicality. He's such an incredible route runner that he sometimes relies too heavily on separation and lacks physicality at the top of his routes. Top end speed to keep a defense honest + position versatility. Comparison: Amari Cooper.

3) Henry Ruggs - Pros: Speed, acceleration, body control. Cons: Size, catching radius, physicality (Although impressive for his size)

Good but not great hands. Like Jeudy, he has a tendency to catch the ball with his body when he doesn't have too. Obviously a home run threat every time he touches the ball and far more polished than speed guys of recent memory (John Ross, etc.) Favorite part about Ruggs is his toughness and competitive mentality - Just a really scrappy player and it shows up on tape. Can play either Z/Y but not X - Not a knock against him but worth mentioning for those looking for your stereotypical #1 (Whatever that's worth). Comparison: Tyreek hill

Again, I actually really like all three of these guys, no Julio's or Calvin Johnson's but All-pro potential. I'd have them a shade under OBJ/Evans/Watkins collectively for perspective. Thing is, I view the top end talent to be the same at OT and value OT far more than WR. This is a HISTORIC WR class because of depth not top end talent - We should feel confident in our chances of landing a difference maker outside of our first selection. I'm a firm believer that the smartest/fastest way to compete AND help Darnold is through improving the offensive. So while I'd love to add one of Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs I can't justify the philosophy behind it while we're still so weak up front.

Just my two cents .. Nothing personal. Appreciate your opinion/perspective and the discussion. 

Ruggs has great hands.   He's dropped 1 ball in his college career.   Lamb dropped 5 last year.   Not sure how you can say he has good but not great hands when he has the lowest drop rate of any of these guys by a mile. 

[Bobby816]

14 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

Honestly, I wouldn't be THAT upset with a WR because it's easy to get behind adding an explosive playmaker - I just don't believe it's the smart way to build a team. The value of adding an OT IMO is far greater even if it's not as much "fun". I think Edoga/Fant have the potential to ruin this offense. I certainly don't love Perriman/Crowder/? but I don't see the negative consequences of that group being nearly as dramatic, especially when you factor in Bell/Herndon and the depth of this draft class. Simple as that.

Admittedly, I'm no expert OL scout - I read a substantial amount from the sources I trust. I could sit here and regurgitate what I've read as my own, but what's the point? Enough people do that already. I'm comfortable concluding from what I've read and the tape I've watched that Wills, Becton, Wirfs and Thomas (EDIT: In that order for me) are all blue chip elite prospects that warrant our selection. I'll save some time on the breakdown for reasons stated above - I wouldn't favor OT if I didn't believe the talent matched or exceeded that of the top WRs. 

My WR rankings: 

1) CeeDee Lamb -  Pros: Fluid/explosive athlete, dangerous YAC ability, strong hands and natural technique catching the ball. Cons: Needs to be a more definitive route runner

What separates Lamb from Jeudy//Ruggs IMO is his ability to win 50/50 contested catches - Specifically, he attacks the ball better than the other two (Not just talking jump balls). He can beat you with finesse underneath or bail a quarterback out deep. Great hands and obviously deadly after the catch. Elite body control tracking the football. Not worried about his speed. More than willing and able as a blocker. Prototypical #1 potential. Comparison: Devante Adams.

2) Jerry Jeudy - Pros: Route running, foot and top end speed. Cons: Drops + Body Catcher, Physicality

The safest of the three IMO. He's obviously an elite route runner - Will be among the leagues most talented from day one. For that reason, I think you can feel good about his floor and instant production as a high volume receiver. His drops/lack of concentration are a legitimate concern as is his physicality. He's such an incredible route runner that he sometimes relies too heavily on separation and lacks physicality at the top of his routes. Top end speed to keep a defense honest + position versatility. Comparison: Amari Cooper.

3) Henry Ruggs - Pros: Speed, acceleration, body control. Cons: Size, catching radius, physicality (Although impressive for his size)

Good but not great hands. Like Jeudy, he has a tendency to catch the ball with his body when he doesn't have too. Obviously a home run threat every time he touches the ball and far more polished than speed guys of recent memory (John Ross, etc.) Favorite part about Ruggs is his toughness and competitive mentality - Just a really scrappy player and it shows up on tape. Can play either Z/Y but not X - Not a knock against him but worth mentioning for those looking for your stereotypical #1 (Whatever that's worth). Comparison: Tyreek hill

Again, I actually really like all three of these guys, no Julio's or Calvin Johnson's but All-pro potential. I'd have them a shade under OBJ/Evans/Watkins collectively for perspective. Thing is, I view the top end talent to be the same at OT and value OT far more than WR. This is a HISTORIC WR class because of depth not top end talent - We should feel confident in our chances of landing a difference maker outside of our first selection. I'm a firm believer that the smartest/fastest way to compete AND help Darnold is through improving the offensive. So while I'd love to add one of Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs I can't justify the philosophy behind it while we're still so weak up front.

Just my two cents .. Nothing personal. Appreciate your opinion/perspective and the discussion. 

I respect that. Thanks for elaborating

[mek5295]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I know it’s still too early to tell... but I’d trade him for 39 with the impact he had last season. Hopefully he gets better. The 3rd pick is going to be hard for him to live up to. Especially since we didn’t need a DLineman at all.

Let me guess, so the Jets can take a receiver at 11 and draft the best tackle available at 39?

[Bobby816]

8 hours ago, mek5295 said:

Let me guess, so the Jets can take a receiver at 11 and draft the best tackle available at 39?

Making quite an impact, huh? Make your 1st few posts yesterday and then attack the MOD. Real smart.

 

Being new you should read before you post. I after said I was being rather sarcastic bc most of us disliked the Q pick. Most of us wanted Josh Allen (who isn’t a WR)

[KingOfNewYork]

8 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Making quite an impact, huh? Make your 1st few posts yesterday and then attack the MOD. Real smart.

 

Being new you should read before you post. I after said I was being rather sarcastic bc most of us disliked the Q pick. Most of us wanted Josh Allen (who isn’t a WR)

Most? I think everyone wanted Allen. 

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Most? I think everyone wanted Allen. 

It was nearly everyone. I knew a few had some doubts about him and liked other edges if I remember correctly.

[KingOfNewYork]

3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

It was nearly everyone. I knew a few had some doubts about him and liked other edges if I remember correctly.

Yeah I think some were high on Burns and Sweat via trade downs. 

[Rockice_8]

11 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Please don’t talk like that to me or any poster on here.

 

I said I know it’s too early to tell. But the fact still remains we don’t need him and could use talent elsewhere. Due to our long history of drafting that same position and it never going well. We have zero reason to think he will be different.

 

Obviously we all know we aren’t giving up on him yet. 

Also Please tell me how he was a better pick than Allen for us?!?!

Talk to you like what?  Telling you to to step back for a sec to clear your head?  Is that the direction this board is heading?

Suggesting we dump our young lineman after 1 season for a mediocre pick deserves a bit more of a reaction then a simple "no".

If we're getting defensive please don't put words in my mouth.  I never said he was better than Allen.  I would have taken Allen last year the way the board fell.  I had Q as a slightly better prospect overall but as I've been preaching here positional value of OT to WRs the OLB would have taken priority over IDL.

[Bobby816]

Just now, Rockice_8 said:

Talk to you like what?  Telling you to to step back for a sec to clear your head?  Is that the direction this board is heading?

Suggesting we dump our young lineman after 1 season for a mediocre pick deserves a bit more of a reaction then a simple "no".

If we're getting defensive please don't put words in my mouth.  I never said he was better than Allen.  I would have taken Allen last year the way the board fell.  I had Q as a slightly better prospect overall but as I've been preaching here positional value of OT to WRs the OLB would have taken priority over IDL.

No you don't tell me or anyone to stop posting (for however long). Who are you to tell anyone that? I'm a MOD and have never told anyone that. That was my point. People really need to start verbalizing the way they debate on here differently. And this has came up from higher up than me on here. And I've been told as the MOD to enforce it.

 

There's a point I feel I need to make... that bc someone doesn't agree with your stance... doesn't mean you have to attack them. I'll use myself as an example. I want a WR at 11. I'd be happy with a few of the OTs, but I would rather at WR. There's not a single thing you or anyone can post on here that will change my mind. I think that's something that some need to realize. Some on here think they're posting to try and persuade someone or posting to try and tell someone how wrong they are.

 

EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OPINION on here!!!

[Rockice_8]

10 hours ago, rampantjet said:

Ruggs has great hands.   He's dropped 1 ball in his college career.   Lamb dropped 5 last year.   Not sure how you can say he has good but not great hands when he has the lowest drop rate of any of these guys by a mile. 

Ruggs is the best WR in this class and it's really not all that close for me.  He runs a diverse route tree already, has top notch hands, and his speed/YAC is second to none.

Lamb has the biggest bust factor given he's never faced press coverage or good CBs for that matter.  No telling how he'll handle contested catches on the next level.

If we do go WR for some strange reason I hope its Ruggs only.

[Bobby816]

6 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

Ruggs is the best WR in this class and it's really not all that close for me.  He runs a diverse route tree already, has top notch hands, and his speed/YAC is second to none.

Lamb has the biggest bust factor given he's never faced press coverage or good CBs for that matter.  No telling how he'll handle contested catches on the next level.

If we do go WR for some strange reason I hope its Ruggs only.

I'm a Ruggs fan. But how has Lamb not faced any good CBs. I watch a TON of Big 12 football living in Texas and fully understand that the Big 12 is not a defensive conference and he faces rather weak CBs most weeks, but He caught for 120yds against LSU in his last game which was arguably the best secondary in the NCAA. In 2018 against Alabama caught for 110 and a TD. In 2017 against Georgia caught for 65yds and threw for a TD.

[Rockice_8]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

No you don't tell me or anyone to stop posting (for however long). Who are you to tell anyone that? I'm a MOD and have never told anyone that. That was my point. People really need to start verbalizing the way they debate on here differently. And this has came up from higher up than me on here. And I've been told as the MOD to enforce it.

 

There's a point I feel I need to make... that bc someone doesn't agree with your stance... doesn't mean you have to attack them. I'll use myself as an example. I want a WR at 11. I'd be happy with a few of the OTs, but I would rather at WR. There's not a single thing you or anyone can post on here that will change my mind. I think that's something that some need to realize. Some on here think they're posting to try and persuade someone or posting to try and tell someone how wrong they are.

 

EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OPINION on here!!!

It was sarcastic like your trade idea.  I wasn't expecting you to stop posting.  We've been here long enough or so I had thought.

Sure everyone on here gets an opinion but the whole point of a sports board is to argue both sides.  I might not change your opinion but it's a sports discussion.  They don't start with me just saying "you want Jeudy or whoever at WR great idea" when I 100 percent disagree with that.  There are plenty of other younger readers looking for sports knowledge on these boards so having these discussions let's them form their own opinions on these topics. Present your side and let the others form an opinion.  I'm not here to change your mind I'm here to put what knowledge I've obtained of the sport over the years here for others to read. If a few young Jets fans learn somethings then great.  Me and you just don't see eye to eye on this and other things over the years like round 1 running backs which helps spur the conversation.  

I got nothing better to do when I'm not working so I enjoy a good debate.

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, Rockice_8 said:

It was sarcastic like your trade idea.  I wasn't expecting you to stop posting.  We've been here long enough or so I had thought.

Sure everyone on here gets an opinion but the whole point of a sports board is to argue both sides.  I might not change your opinion but it's a sports discussion.  They don't start with me just saying "you want Jeudy or whoever at WR great idea" when I 100 percent disagree with that.  There are plenty of other younger readers looking for sports knowledge on these boards so having these discussions let's them form their own opinions on these topics. Present your side and let the others form an opinion.  I'm not here to change your mind I'm here to put what knowledge I've obtained of the sport over the years here for others to read. If a few young Jets fans learn somethings then great.  Me and you just don't see eye to eye on this and other things over the years like round 1 running backs which helps spur the conversation.  

I got nothing better to do when I'm not working so I enjoy a good debate.

And that's great. But as I said whether its sarcastic or not... talking down to others on here is no longer tolerated. I as of the weekend was told to not allow that talk anymore. I'm not just addressing you about it. I had to the other day talk to @KingOfTheDotabout it. So this applies to everyone (obviously including myself). I understand you were just being sarcastic. But its bait for a hostile forum. Same as some of the GIFs people have been posting. I get we are all bored. But that bored time doesn't need to be filled with snarky comments and GIFs at others.

[Rockice_8]

7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I'm a Ruggs fan. But how has Lamb not faced any good CBs. I watch a TON of Big 12 football living in Texas and fully understand that the Big 12 is not a defensive conference and he faces rather weak CBs most weeks, but He caught for 120yds against LSU in his last game which was arguably the best secondary in the NCAA. In 2018 against Alabama caught for 110 and a TD. In 2017 against Georgia caught for 65yds and threw for a TD.

Scheme plays a part too.  That OU system is so good at getting guys open.  It was a general statement really.  I think he's too talented overall to bust but I could see some early struggles possibly or maybe just not live up to his draft spot and just be a solid WR.

I like him he just has the biggest transition which is a question mark.