The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

But players going forward won't need to. That's my point.

You are assuming that Adam's and Waller play injury free and play at a high level.  Both are older for their positions.  

[NYRaider]

14 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Every player understands it is a business.  If we traded Carr because he had demands that were to high the players are not going quit on the coach.  They might not be happy but they will understand.  There is not a player or analyst that is going to second guess us if we traded Carr for demanding a top 3 contract.  Players do not care about the cap when it comes to their contract but any player that understands the cap cares when others are getting paid.  You said it yourself that players do not want to lose.  When players see others getting more than they are worth they understand it hurts the teams ability to get better.

The locker room is not going to be happy if we trade Carr and essentially tank the season over $4-5M in cap space. Players want to win football games, they're not worried about how Carr's extension potentially effects the 2024 free agency class. 

[NYRaider]

14 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Renfrow did it last year without those 2.

Renfrow had over 100 receptions and barely scrapped over 1,000 yards. In the two years we had other options he was a 600 yard per season player. 

[NYRaider]

7 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

You are assuming that Adam's and Waller play injury free and play at a high level.  Both are older for their positions.  

As we saw last season if Renfrow is your primary target, your offense is extremely capped. 

[Edz209]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Like if Carr gets $40M instead of $35M, is that $5M, especially considering that the cap is going to sky rocket, really going to be the difference between us winning a Super Bowl or not? @BayRaider lol

idk but waller might like a 5million bump. i'm a carr supporter but i would be somewhat disappointed if we paid him 40m and he actually did come out and say “theres certain players he’d like to play with that if given the opportunity he’d take less”. this was obviously before the league went crazy and paid all these qbs new record deals so maybe we should have made something happen sooner as well  

[Jerry]

20 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I’d be much happier if he takes 35 but we up the guaranteed $. We got him Adams. It’s time for him to put winning first.

I meant 40M over 5 years lol (8M per year).  

[drfrey13]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

The locker room is not going to be happy if we trade Carr and essentially tank the season over $4-5M in cap space. Players want to win football games, they're not worried about how Carr's extension potentially effects the 2024 free agency class. 

Nobody said the locker room would revolt over $4-5 M in cap space.  I said the situation would be viewed differently by the locker if we traded Carr because he had outrageous contract demands then from when McDaniels traded Cutler.  This is also why most Raider fans hope McDaniels has learned from that experience and matured.  Is the entire team on pins and needles thinking about the future cap? No but the players up for extensions or deserving of more money are.  Like I said players do not care how much other players get unless it affects their contract so I am sure at least Renfrow and Waller care.

[MrOaktown_56]

10 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

You are assuming that Adam's and Waller play injury free and play at a high level.  Both are older for their positions.  

29 isn't old for either of those guys. Neither have had huge injury problems prior to last year.

[drfrey13]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Renfrow had over 100 receptions and barely scrapped over 1,000 yards. In the two years we had other options he was a 600 yard per season player. 

 

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

As we saw last season if Renfrow is your primary target, your offense is extremely capped. 

I was not saying Renfrow was the next Brown or Rice.  THe statement was made that with Waller and Adams on the team other WRs would have a much easier time.  It was in reference to Renfrow.  I just pointed out that Renfrow did it without Waller and Adams.  

As for Renfrow's production yes his 10 yards per was not great but he was also ranked 18th in FD and 14th in yards after the catch.  That leads me to think that his 10 yards per has more to do with what he was asked to do and the system.  He was also #2 among WR in catch rate.

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

29 isn't old for either of those guys. Neither have had huge injury problems prior to last year.

Players can play well into their 30s but not everyone does.  I am not saying their production is going to fall off a cliff but rather the risk gets higher and there is probably a very large increase in risk around 30.

[MrOaktown_56]

Just now, drfrey13 said:

Players can play well into their 30s but not everyone does.  I am not saying their production is going to fall off a cliff but rather the risk gets higher and there is probably a very large increase in risk around 30.

I disagree. Modern sports medicine is getting better every year (and does not support the 30 number people throw around) and Adams has a game that will age very well, plus Waller did not even become a starter until 27/28 so he hasn't taken many hits.

[NYRaider]

17 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Nobody said the locker room would revolt over $4-5 M in cap space.  I said the situation would be viewed differently by the locker if we traded Carr because he had outrageous contract demands then from when McDaniels traded Cutler.  This is also why most Raider fans hope McDaniels has learned from that experience and matured.  Is the entire team on pins and needles thinking about the future cap? No but the players up for extensions or deserving of more money are.  Like I said players do not care how much other players get unless it affects their contract so I am sure at least Renfrow and Waller care.

Do you think Renfrow is going to ball out and get paid without Carr?

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I disagree. Modern sports medicine is getting better every year (and does not support the 30 number people throw around) and Adams has a game that will age very well, plus Waller did not even become a starter until 27/28 so he hasn't taken many hits.

There should be no "will" in your statement.  Should or could is a better choice of wording.  Adams game should age well but he could just as easily have a career ending injury next year.  Waller also had some injuries last year.  I do not want it to happen but the risk does increase.  Sports medicine has improved but injuries take more time as you age and medicine can not change that.  Like I said just the risk increases.

[drfrey13]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Do you think Renfrow is going to ball out and get paid without Carr?

Depends on the QB but I believe Renfrow is going to be a trusted asset by any QB that comes in.  If we bring in a QB that throws for 2,500 yards and 15 TDs do you think Adams is going to live up to his contract.  Renfrow would probably still get paid but not by us under those circumstances.  You are also proving my point about paying WRs.  The Adams trade does not look good for us unless the o-line plays well leading to Carr having a much improved year and allowing Adams to produce at a GB level.  WRs are to dependent on other positions to do well.

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Depends on the QB but I believe Renfrow is going to be a trusted asset by any QB that comes in.  If we bring in a QB that throws for 2,500 yards and 15 TDs do you think Adams is going to live up to his contract.  Renfrow would probably still get paid but not by us under those circumstances.  You are also proving my point about paying WRs.  The Adams trade does not look good for us unless the o-line plays well leading to Carr having a much improved year and allowing Adams to produce at a GB level.  WRs are to dependent on other positions to do well.

If we trade Carr who do you expect we'd bring in as our starting QB for next year? Carr was just near the top of the league in passing yards so I'm sure Adams will get a lot of opportunities to prove he's worth the contract.