TheGame316 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Why would the drop off be slight? Dalton has, in his entire career, put up one season comparable to Dak’s recent output. Seems pretty far fetched that the light will just come on a half-decade later. If he was worth his weight in copper, the Bengals wouldn’t have been in position to move on from him so easily. $13M + Dalton vs Dak? Easy decision. Have you seen Dak play without his weapons? Minus Zeke? Minus Amari? Throw in an injury on the Oline to Smith or Collins? Straight Trash Give Dalton those weapons and if he plays like his early Cinci days, 13 Million in savings sounds fine to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame316 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 1 hour ago, N4L said: The only problem with this reasoning is that quarterbacks carry such a high positional value. A 10% downgrade at QB with a 10% upgrade at somewhere else is a net negative It would probably be a 50% upgrade at 3 positions if the 10% downgrade saves you 13-15 Million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, TheGame316 said: Have you seen Dak play without his weapons? Minus Zeke? Minus Amari? Throw in an injury on the Oline to Smith or Collins? Straight Trash Give Dalton those weapons and if he plays like his early Cinci days, 13 Million in savings sounds fine to me So we’re comparing the small sample size of a young QB without weapons, to the hypothetical of a an older fringe starter QB with weapons? Makes sense... Dalton is a career 62% passer, who’s good for a mid-to-low 20 something TDs, 10+ picks, and an 80 something QB rating. You’re willing to move on from a much younger potential franchise QB and - even best case scenario - downgrade at QB, for $13M? Yeah, hard pass. Dalton was a decent QB but hasn’t proven squat as of late to be thought of as a long term answer at QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame316 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: So we’re comparing the small sample size of a young QB without weapons, to the hypothetical of a an older fringe starter QB with weapons? Makes sense... Dalton is a career 62% passer, who’s good for a mid-to-low 20 something TDs, 10+ picks, and an 80 something QB rating. You’re willing to move on from a much younger potential franchise QB and - even best case scenario - downgrade at QB, for $13M? Yeah, hard pass. Dalton was a decent QB but hasn’t proven squat as of late to be thought of as a long term answer at QB. You probably just have to watch the games Dak will let you down every time you need him the most. Dak's best time, is garbage time I'd rather have a QB that goes 16-25 250 and wins, than 32-45 380 and loses, but that's just me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 2 hours ago, TheGame316 said: You probably just have to watch the games Dak will let you down every time you need him the most. Dak's best time, is garbage time Dak is statistically most productive in the 2nd quarter, by a wide margin... 2 hours ago, TheGame316 said: I'd rather have a QB that goes 16-25 250 and wins, than 32-45 380 and loses, but that's just me You’re seriously going to say that when Dalton is 9 games over .500? 133 games into his career? Like, you realize Prescott is 40-24 in comparison? Even then, that’s...sort of a given. I’d rather have my QB go 0/25 and throw 10 picks if it means we win compared to a guy who goes 30/30 with 7 TDs in a loss. The problem is Dalton has maybe two or three seasons where you’re looking at him as a good, reliable QB. Did I miss something where Dalton became this proven winner or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, TheGame316 said: You should watch actual Cowboy games and stay away from Dak's statline I have my reservations. I know he threw some terrible balls last season, and seems like he can't put a team on his back and beat more talented teams - but I think up here he'd be good for us. I think he's smart and efficient (I'm not saying he's a game manager because he's def better than that). It's obviously not happening, he'll be with Dallas 5 more years at least. Edited May 9, 2020 by Hunter2_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said: Dak is statistically most productive in the 2nd quarter, by a wide margin... You’re seriously going to say that when Dalton is 9 games over .500? 133 games into his career? Like, you realize Prescott is 40-24 in comparison? Even then, that’s...sort of a given. I’d rather have my QB go 0/25 and throw 10 picks if it means we win compared to a guy who goes 30/30 with 7 TDs in a loss. The problem is Dalton has maybe two or three seasons where you’re looking at him as a good, reliable QB. Did I miss something where Dalton became this proven winner or something? 1 minute ago, Hunter2_1 said: I have my reservations. I know he threw some terrible balls last season, and seems like he can't put a team on his back and beat more talented teams - but I think up here he'd be good for us. Just put that dude on ignore. I have. Multiple times. He is a known Cowboys troll. Like, hardcore just here to stir up (poop) troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Just put that dude on ignore. I have. Multiple times. He is a known Cowboys troll. Like, hardcore just here to stir up (poop) troll. Ah I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame316 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: I have my reservations. I know he threw some terrible balls last season, and seems like he can't put a team on his back and beat more talented teams - but I think up here he'd be good for us. I think he's smart and efficient (I'm not saying he's a game manager because he's def better than that). It's obviously not happening, he'll be with Dallas 5 more years at least. I don't ride Dak's jock like Matts does. Matt can't make a legitimate Dak argument without cherry picking his most flattering stats and flooding any thread with graphs Given what you said about Dak's limitations, would you make him the highest paid QB in the league on your team if he was a Free Agent? Would you pay him 38-40 Million per year if those were his demands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame316 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 6 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Dak is statistically most productive in the 2nd quarter, by a wide margin... You’re seriously going to say that when Dalton is 9 games over .500? 133 games into his career? Like, you realize Prescott is 40-24 in comparison? Even then, that’s...sort of a given. I’d rather have my QB go 0/25 and throw 10 picks if it means we win compared to a guy who goes 30/30 with 7 TDs in a loss. The problem is Dalton has maybe two or three seasons where you’re looking at him as a good, reliable QB. Did I miss something where Dalton became this proven winner or something? You are just going to ignore that Cinci has had a terrible roster for the past 4 seasons? Regarding Dak, Like I said, watch the games and don't just look at the stats Last year, the team would generally start out slow, have a few decent drives that stalled, find themselves down a couple of scores and when the opposing defense eased up the offense would finally get going. This happened a lot in the "must win" games down the stretch, Bears, Bills, Eagles, Vikings. The wins were stat padded against the Lions and Redskins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, TheGame316 said: You are just going to ignore that Cinci has had a terrible roster for the past 4 seasons? Ignore it? No. But I’m not going to bet my franchise’s future on an older, fringe starter coming from a bad team in the hopes of him playing better than he ever has. 9 minutes ago, TheGame316 said: Regarding Dak, Like I said, watch the games and don't just look at the stats Riiiight... So “Dak time is garbage time” but Dak does most of his damage in the 2nd quarter...stats on their own confirm that with 100% certainty, but I just “don’t watch”. Gotcha. 9 minutes ago, TheGame316 said: Last year, the team would generally start out slow, have a few decent drives that stalled, find themselves down a couple of scores and when the opposing defense eased up the offense would finally get going. This happened a lot in the "must win" games down the stretch, Bears, Bills, Eagles, Vikings. The wins were stat padded against the Lions and Redskins So you’re not going to defend your position on Andy Dalton being a winner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TheGame316 said: You are just going to ignore that Cinci has had a terrible roster for the past 4 seasons? Regarding Dak, Like I said, watch the games and don't just look at the stats Last year, the team would generally start out slow, have a few decent drives that stalled, find themselves down a couple of scores and when the opposing defense eased up the offense would finally get going. This happened a lot in the "must win" games down the stretch, Bears, Bills, Eagles, Vikings. The wins were stat padded against the Lions and Redskins I am with you however Dalton is no more clutch than Dak. There is no improvement from Dak to Dalton, except for in cap space. Edit: Dalton is no more a proven “winner” than Dak. Edited May 9, 2020 by DoleINGout 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame316 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Ignore it? No. But I’m not going to bet my franchise’s future on an older, fringe starter coming from a bad team in the hopes of him playing better than he ever has. Riiiight... So “Dak time is garbage time” but Dak does most of his damage in the 2nd quarter...stats on their own confirm that with 100% certainty, but I just “don’t watch”. Gotcha. So you’re not going to defend your position on Andy Dalton being a winner? Dalton was just as much a "winner" in his first 5 seasons when he had weapons as Dak has been in his first 4. Dalton with 50 wins in his first 5 seasons, Dak with 40 in his first 4. The point is there isn't a 15 million dollar dropoff Just look at Dak's game splits last year 69.3% completion 315 yards per game 19 TDs 3 Ints against teams with a losing record and he was 6-1 - Watching these games will show Dak beating up on lousy teams early 62% completion 300 yards per game 11 TDs 8 Ints against teams with winning records and he was 2-7 - Watching these games will illustrate the garbage time more than the overall statline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, TheGame316 said: Dalton was just as much a "winner" in his first 5 seasons when he had weapons as Dak has been in his first 4. Dalton with 50 wins in his first 5 seasons, Dak with 40 in his first 4. The point is there isn't a 15 million dollar dropoff If we had time machines, sure. 11 minutes ago, TheGame316 said: Just look at Dak's game splits last year 69.3% completion 315 yards per game 19 TDs 3 Ints against teams with a losing record and he was 6-1 - Watching these games will show Dak beating up on lousy teams early So if an offense scores on teams late, that’s garbage time. And if they score on a team early, that’s “beating up” on them. What’re they supposed to do, purposely keep it close all game? 11 minutes ago, TheGame316 said: 62% completion 300 yards per game 11 TDs 8 Ints against teams with winning records and he was 2-7 - Watching these games will illustrate the garbage time more than the overall statline Yeah, him and the rest of the team had bad stinkers vs the better teams. How is Andy Dalton an upgrade from that? Should I pull up his game logs from last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame316 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Just now, Yin-Yang said: If we had time machines, sure. So if an offense scores on teams late, that’s garbage time. And if they score on a team early, that’s “beating up” on them. What’re they supposed to do, purposely keep it close all game? Yeah, him and the rest of the team had bad stinkers vs the better teams. How is Andy Dalton an upgrade from that? Should I pull up his game logs from last year? Do you know how garbage time works? When a team is bad, they are going to be bad for all 4 quarters, generally, because they are a bad team. Dak put up big numbers against these teams (see above post), especially early on in games. These numbers may taper off towards the end when the winning team (Cowboys in this case, may run the ball more since they have a lead to keep the clock going and end the game more quickly) When a team is good, or is playing with a lead, especially by 2 scores or more, they will generally soften up their defense late in games, allow completions and play safe to keep the clock going and end the game more quickly. This is known as garbage time. They will willingly allow 14 play 80 yard drives that eat up 6-7 minutes of clock in exchange for taking away the big play that will allow a quick score. Dak put up a lot of his bulk numbers late in games (passing yards and easy completions) that they are losing, scored points late to make the games look closer than they actually were. The game against the Bears is the very best illustration of this but there were many more if you watched the games as they played out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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