Andy Dalton signs 1 year deal with the Dallas Cowboys

[TheGame316]

8 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

If we had time machines, sure. 

So if an offense scores on teams late, that’s garbage time. And if they score on a team early, that’s “beating up” on them. What’re they supposed to do, purposely keep it close all game?

Yeah, him and the rest of the team had bad stinkers vs the better teams. 

How is Andy Dalton an upgrade from that? Should I pull up his game logs from last year?

I have never said Andy Dalton is an upgrade. The dropoff from Dak (if any) is well worth the 35 million in cap space this year and a potential 13-15 million next year assuming Dalton plays well with Cooper, Gallup, Lamb, Zeke, The Cowboys O-Line, etc. 

Dalton is 32, He isn't 39. He hasn't had a major injury to suggest he can't contribute as he did when the Bengals had a competitive roster. 

The Bengals have been trash for years and he's still chugged out 7-9, 5-6 records as a starter. In a division that has the Steelers and Ravens. Are you putting stock in the 2-11 record this year? Peyton Manning in his prime wasn't going to make the 2019 Bengals competitive. That team is in full rebuild mode

[Soko]

13 minutes ago, TheGame316 said:

Do you know how garbage time works?

When a team is bad, they are going to be bad for all 4 quarters, generally, because they are a bad team. Dak put up big numbers against these teams (see above post), especially early on in games. These numbers may taper off towards the end when the winning team (Cowboys in this case, may run the ball more since they have a lead to keep the clock going and end the game more quickly)

Oh, so garbage time vs teams that don’t finish .500 or better is all 4 quarters. Of course.

13 minutes ago, TheGame316 said:

When a team is good, or is playing with a lead, especially by 2 scores or more, they will generally soften up their defense late in games, allow completions and play safe to keep the clock going and end the game more quickly. This is known as garbage time. They will willingly allow 14 play 80 yard drives that eat up 6-7 minutes of clock in exchange for taking away the big play that will allow a quick score. Dak put up a lot of his bulk numbers late in games (passing yards and easy completions) that they are losing, scored points late to make the games look closer than they actually were. The game against the Bears is the very best illustration of this but there were many more if you watched the games as they played out

Again - Dak’s 2nd quarter production heavily outweighs his 4th quarter production. Actual factual, my friend. Pretending that it happened mostly in the 4th is just you unwilling to move off a point. 

Should we include Dalton’s splits from last year, or no?

1 minute ago, TheGame316 said:

I have never said Andy Dalton is an upgrade.

Okay, great. So we’re on the same page - you want the Cowboys to get worse on purpose for $13M in cap space.

1 minute ago, TheGame316 said:

The dropoff from Dak (if any) is well worth the 35 million in cap space this year and a potential 13-15 million next year assuming Dalton plays well with Cooper, Gallup, Lamb, Zeke, The Cowboys O-Line, etc. 

Assuming Dalton goes from a fringe starter to playing better than he ever has in his career on a new team, sure. In that case, the Boys should sign Johnny Manziel - assuming Manziel plays well with Cooper, Gallup, Lamb, Zeke, etc.

1 minute ago, TheGame316 said:

Dalton is 32, He isn't 39. He hasn't had a major injury to suggest he can't contribute as he did when the Bengals had a competitive roster. 

Correct, that means the Cowboys would be going to both an older and more injury prone QB.

1 minute ago, TheGame316 said:

The Bengals have been trash for years and he's still chugged out 7-9, 5-6 records as a starter. In a division that has the Steelers and Ravens. Are you putting stock in the 2-11 record this year? Peyton Manning in his prime wasn't going to make the 2019 Bengals competitive. That team is in full rebuild mode

So Dalton’s been on bad teams, which excuses his bad play and mediocre production. Yet that same thing is used as a slight against Dak in a drastically smaller sample size? You really don’t see an issue in what you’re saying? (And I say bad teams lightly, it’s not like Dalton has had nothing to work with offensively. Green, Jones, Sanu, Bernard, early. Green, Boyd, Mixon, as of late). 

And I’m saying this as a Pats fan who doesn’t even think all that highly of Prescott. @Matts4313 can attest. It’s just rich we’re talking about Dalton as an established winner or some sort of franchise QB but Dak had some bad showings against good teams, so he’s out.

[TheGame316]

18 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Oh, so garbage time vs teams that don’t finish .500 or better is all 4 quarters. Of course.

Again - Dak’s 2nd quarter production heavily outweighs his 4th quarter production. Actual factual, my friend. Pretending that it happened mostly in the 4th is just you unwilling to move off a point. 

Should we include Dalton’s splits from last year, or no?

Okay, great. So we’re on the same page - you want the Cowboys to get worse on purpose for $13M in cap space.

Assuming Dalton goes from a fringe starter to playing better than he ever has in his career on a new team, sure. In that case, the Boys should sign Johnny Manziel - assuming Manziel plays well with Cooper, Gallup, Lamb, Zeke, etc.

Correct, that means the Cowboys would be going to both an older and more injury prone QB.

So Dalton’s been on bad teams, which excuses his bad play and mediocre production. Yet that same thing is used as a slight against Dak in a drastically smaller sample size? You really don’t see an issue in what you’re saying? (And I say bad teams lightly, it’s not like Dalton has had nothing to work with offensively. Green, Jones, Sanu, Bernard, early. Green, Boyd, Mixon, as of late). 

And I’m saying this as a Pats fan who doesn’t even think all that highly of Prescott. @Matts4313 can attest. It’s just rich we’re talking about Dalton as an established winner or some sort of franchise QB but Dak had some bad showings against good teams, so he’s out.

If you think injured Green, Boyd and Mixon with the Bengals current O-Line as of late compares to Cooper, Gallup, Zeke and the Cowboys line, then I can't help you

Dalton has proven, when surrounded with talent that he can win games. 

They both have ceilings. I will tell you that Dalton is a game manager who can get you to 11-5, maybe 12-4 when he has a complete roster. Matts will try to tell you that Dak is the second coming of Tom Brady and Russell Wilson combined and will suggest that Dak has already won a Superbowl but he just hasn't found the graph to prove it yet, and should be paid as such

Dalton would be overpaid at 25 Million but that is his absolute ceiling in terms of a contract. He'd get it if he started all year, and got the Cowboys to the NFC Championship or Superbowl, but then he'd be worth it, no? Dak is not only is gunning for the high 30's in terms of contract right now, he wants a short deal so he can extract an even higher contract in 3-4 years. That's trouble I want no part of

Edited May 9, 2020 by TheGame316

[JAF-N72EX]

Dalton is a 33 year old backup QB who is turnover prone. Dak is still young and learning so he still has potential but Dalton is what he is at this point.  

But then again, I was told by a certain Bengals fan on here that Dalton is a starting QB and is still as good as he was 5 years ago, and the only reason he fell off was because of his surrounding cast. *Smirks* . He won 70 gamez doe! 

[Soko]

1 hour ago, TheGame316 said:

If you think injured Green, Boyd and Mixon with the Bengals current O-Line as of late compares to Cooper, Gallup, Zeke and the Cowboys line, then I can't help you

Not what I said. 

I said I’m giving Dalton the “bad supporting cast” argument but his offensive pieces, for most of his career, weren’t that bad. 

1 hour ago, TheGame316 said:

Dalton has proven, when surrounded with talent that he can win games. 

So has Dak. And Dak didn’t prove it 5 years ago and follow it up with mediocrity.

1 hour ago, TheGame316 said:

Dalton would be overpaid at 25 Million but that is his absolute ceiling in terms of a contract. He'd get it if he started all year, and got the Cowboys to the NFC Championship or Superbowl, but then he'd be worth it, no? Dak is not only is gunning for the high 30's in terms of contract right now, he wants a short deal so he can extract an even higher contract in 3-4 years. That's trouble I want no part of

Again - no, duh. Johnny Manziel is worth $25M if he wins me a SB, but that in no way justifies him being worth that now. 

I’d rather have a good QB and contract negotiations than a fringe starter who will, best case scenario, also be making a pretty penny. I like having a good QB, but you’ve already said you’d rather have Dalton as a downgrade. Guess we’ll agree to disagree. 

[TheGame316]

2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Not what I said. 

I said I’m giving Dalton the “bad supporting cast” argument but his offensive pieces, for most of his career, weren’t that bad. 

So has Dak. And Dak didn’t prove it 5 years ago and follow it up with mediocrity.

Again - no, duh. Johnny Manziel is worth $25M if he wins me a SB, but that in no way justifies him being worth that now. 

I’d rather have a good QB and contract negotiations than a fringe starter who will, best case scenario, also be making a pretty penny. I like having a good QB, but you’ve already said you’d rather have Dalton as a downgrade. Guess we’ll agree to disagree. 

Dalton makes 3 Million now, That's what I'm saying. I wouldn't consider paying him 22-25 Million UNLESS he can get me to an NFC Championship game or Superbowl with the current Cowboys roster. If Dalton takes this roster, and gets us closer than Dak ever did, then I would absolutely consider paying Dalton (but no more than 25 Million)

Dak is coming off an 8-8 season with the current Cowboys roster and he wants 40 Million NOW, without the NFC Championship game or Superbowl on his resume. I will factor in that Dak is younger and potentially better then Dalton, and I would pay him 30 million with his resume as it is, even on a long term deal. If he plays under the tag and gets us to the aforementioned Championship games, I would be more than willing to re-evaluate his contribution to the roster. Even at the 35-40 Million range that he is asking for. 

So to clarify

Dalton unproven with Cowboys roster and no NFC Championship/Superbowl appearance= 3 Million Yes, 25 Million No

Dalton proven with Cowboys roster and NFC Championship/Superbowl appearance = 25 Million yes

Dak with Cowboys roster and no NFC Championship/Superbowl appearance = 40 Million No

Dak with Cowboys roster and NFC Championship/Superbowl appearance = 35-40 Million yes

[Soko]

14 minutes ago, TheGame316 said:

Dalton makes 3 Million now, That's what I'm saying. I wouldn't consider paying him 22-25 Million UNLESS he can get me to an NFC Championship game or Superbowl with the current Cowboys roster. If Dalton takes this roster, and gets us closer than Dak ever did, then I would absolutely consider paying Dalton (but no more than 25 Million)

Dak is coming off an 8-8 season with the current Cowboys roster and he wants 40 Million NOW, without the NFC Championship game or Superbowl on his resume. I will factor in that Dak is younger and potentially better then Dalton, and I would pay him 30 million with his resume as it is, even on a long term deal. If he plays under the tag and gets us to the aforementioned Championship games, I would be more than willing to re-evaluate his contribution to the roster. Even at the 35-40 Million range that he is asking for. 

So to clarify

Dalton unproven with Cowboys roster and no NFC Championship/Superbowl appearance= 3 Million Yes, 25 Million No

Dalton proven with Cowboys roster and NFC Championship/Superbowl appearance = 25 Million yes

Dak with Cowboys roster and no NFC Championship/Superbowl appearance = 40 Million No

Dak with Cowboys roster and NFC Championship/Superbowl appearance = 35-40 Million yes

Gotcha. Enjoy your QB-less, win-now roster for 2021. 

[TheGame316]

9 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Gotcha. Enjoy your QB-less, win-now roster for 2021. 

We were "Win Now" last year

Dak got us to 8-8

[///mcompact]

3 hours ago, TheGame316 said:

We were "Win Now" last year

Dak got us to 8-8

Garrett got us to 8-8. 

[Soko]

4 hours ago, TheGame316 said:

We were "Win Now" last year

Dak got us to 8-8

8-8, so let’s downgrade at QB. Surely that will get them to the SB!

[TheGame316]

6 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

8-8, so let’s downgrade at QB. Surely that will get them to the SB!

We already lost our sack leader and our #1 corner to make room for Dak's contract (also lost our All Pro Center)

So, we'll have the same QB, minus a DE and a #1 CB and a Center and that should get us a better record? (Assuming Rookie Lamb replaces Cobbs 800 yards)

.....Maybe it's Dak?

[Soko]

1 hour ago, TheGame316 said:

We already lost our sack leader and our #1 corner to make room for Dak's contract (also lost our All Pro Center)

So, we'll have the same QB, minus a DE and a #1 CB and a Center and that should get us a better record? (Assuming Rookie Lamb replaces Cobbs 800 yards)

.....Maybe it's Dak?

Maybe. That doesn’t mean replace him with Dalton and expect any better.

[Johnny Nix]

Again, nobody is saying Dalton is better than Dak. They are saying that Dak isn’t worth what he wants. 

[TheBeast23]

16 hours ago, TheGame316 said:

We already lost our sack leader and our #1 corner to make room for Dak's contract (also lost our All Pro Center)

So, we'll have the same QB, minus a DE and a #1 CB and a Center and that should get us a better record? (Assuming Rookie Lamb replaces Cobbs 800 yards)

.....Maybe it's Dak?

No. This is just no. Not willing to pay premium for those guys doesn’t in any way say we lost them because of Daks Future contract and adding Fredrick into that mix is absolutely ridiculous. Fredricks health issues did that to him not an imminent contract. It’s okay to have an opinion but certainly don’t force the square peg into the circle hole here to strengthen your argument. We long before Daks contract knew we weren’t going to pay Jones market price as we didn’t have room for him after zeke, Cooper and Dak. To be shocked he walked for money we don’t have without even a little attempt to retain him shouldn’t be surprising. Would it have been nice to sign Quinn? Surely would have been nice to retain him but trading a late round pick for a guy to make a couple million dollars and get that type of production is different than turning around and paying him 70 million dollars for it. 

[TheGame316]

2 minutes ago, TheBeast23 said:

No. This is just no. Not willing to pay premium for those guys doesn’t in any way say we lost them because of Daks Future contract and adding Fredrick into that mix is absolutely ridiculous. Fredricks health issues did that to him not an imminent contract. It’s okay to have an opinion but certainly don’t force the square peg into the circle hole here to strengthen your argument. We long before Daks contract knew we weren’t going to pay Jones market price as we didn’t have room for him after zeke, Cooper and Dak. To be shocked he walked for money we don’t have without even a little attempt to retain him shouldn’t be surprising. Would it have been nice to sign Quinn? Surely would have been nice to retain him but trading a late round pick for a guy to make a couple million dollars and get that type of production is different than turning around and paying him 70 million dollars for it. 

You don't understand

Jones could have asked for 10 Million, Quinn could have asked for 9 Million, we couldn't have afforded it

We are running the same team back, minus 3 key pieces and expecting Dak to make up the difference and get better results? It's not like we were 14-2 and could regress back to 12-4. It was all we could do with Dak to get to 9-7/8-8. That who we are with Dak at QB

Cowboys aren't alone in this, it happens to every team. It just happened to the Seahawks, Rams and Eagles AFTER they made their Superbowl run. It's going to happen to the Chiefs and Ravens with a QB on a rookie deal. At least they've been dominant teams and have had their successes