Browns General Discussion

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

13 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I personally believe that at some point need should trump other areas, and that point IMO is later in Day 3 if you didn’t address it with need meeting BPA Days 1 and 2 or in free agency. Berry really dropped the ball here by not even addressing it at all.

We have essentially no depth to go with multiple hurt guys and didn’t draft or acquire anyone new with a horrendous unit the last 2+ years.

I won’t say he dropped the ball just yet as we have to evaluate him on the guys he actually drafted as well. 
 

If the UDFA becomes a stud or the other picks we did make work out it’s hard to knock the choices he made, but it does make the fanbase less than patient if the results are what people are hoping for and the thing you failed to address is the issue. 
 

If he doesn’t/didn’t want to spend draft picks on LB that’s fine, but at least spend some money on a guy who can play a bit.
 

You just don’t get any benefit of the doubt when you overlook an obvious issue like this.  Like, he has to be right about the position group this season or it’s a bad look. 

[Dawgpoun8017]

Guys we know how berry values the LB position and his view is pretty much on par with how the majority of the NFL is viewing the position over the past few years only two positions have seen their franchise tag numbers actually drop while the others are shooting up, that’s the LB and the RB positions, the two positions the the modern day NFL are not necessarily turning obsolete but devaluing 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Dawgpoun8017

[candyman93]

9 minutes ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

Guys we know how berry values the LB position and his view is pretty much on par with how the majority of the NFL is viewing the position over the past few years only two positions have seen their franchise tag numbers actually drop while the others are shooting up, that’s the LB and the RB positions, the two positions the the modern day NFL are not necessarily turning obsolete but devaluing 

Nah man, I’m sure the posters on here more know better than the entire NFL.
 

Thank God the front office understands what the entire league is doing.

[MWil23]

26 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I won’t say he dropped the ball just yet as we have to evaluate him on the guys he actually drafted as well. 

I think roster construction is absolutely a factor in him dropping the ball compared to who does or doesn’t pan out, meaning that it includes trades and free agent signings. I don’t view it as a one or the other thing, it’s not linear.

26 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If the UDFA becomes a stud

Correct

26 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

or the other picks we did make work out it’s hard to knock the choices he made,

It doesn’t excuse him from signing a free agent or making a trade.

26 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

but it does make the fanbase less than patient if the results are what people are hoping for and the thing you failed to address is the issue. 

If the unit as an entire defense plays well then it’s not a big deal. If we continue to get exposed in that area as we have for 25 years when we are allegedly constructed for win now and deep playoff runs, it’s worth considering termination.

26 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If he doesn’t/didn’t want to spend draft picks on LB that’s fine, but at least spend some money on a guy who can play a bit.

Exactly. If you don’t want to draft and develop a guy that’s fine, but you’d better bring in an experienced and average level starter at those positions. The MIKE still relays coverage, personnel, and is the quarterback of the defense even if he is not a stud. He’d better be capable.

26 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You just don’t get any benefit of the doubt when you overlook an obvious issue like this.  Like, he has to be right about the position group this season or it’s a bad look. 

💯 agreed

[MWil23]

11 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Nah man, I’m sure the posters on here more know better than the entire NFL.
 

Thank God the front office understands what the entire league is doing.

Nick Bolton for KC is an absolute baller.

So is Logan Wilson.

So is Fred Warner.

So is Roquan Smith.

So is Hassan Reddick.

So is/was Bobby Wagner.

No coincidence their teams are contending for and/or winning super bowls by helping make their defenses legit and well rounded.

I respectfully disagree. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

49 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Nah man, I’m sure the posters on here more know better than the entire NFL.
 

Thank God the front office understands what the entire league is doing.

I think there’s a difference between devaluing and disregarding though.

And part of the devaluing is because many teams feel the impact made by those positions are lesser in comparison to others and they’re able to get competent play from lesser talents.

I personally agree with both of those points.  
 

The issue I have is that if you’re going to say “we don’t need to invest with picks or FA spend on this position in order to get competent play”, that’s fine, but you need to have guys who can play at a league average capability then.

No one is saying we need to drop multiple day 1 picks on linebackers, but some mid round picks to be thrown into the mix isn’t a huge ask and it’s something Berry has done before.
 

Im not gonna kill any GM for what they did in R6 last year or whatever, but I do expect this upcoming draft to have some new guys brought in.

 

I think @MWil23 and others are simply saying “if these positions are so easily filled, I expect to see them adequately filled this season.” And tbh, that’s a fair argument.  As much as I agree with Berry’s philosophy on roster construction, he’s 100% ignored the position this off-season. When you do that things had better work in your favor.

[Dawgpoun8017]

31 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Nick Bolton for KC is an absolute baller.

So is Logan Wilson.

So is Fred Warner.

So is Roquan Smith.

So is Hassan Reddick.

So is/was Bobby Wagner.

No coincidence their teams are contending for and/or winning super bowls by helping make their defenses legit and well rounded.

I respectfully disagree. 

Hassan Reddick is more of a pure pass rusher than a true LB, and yes there are a handful of impactful linebackers but in today’s NFL they’re the outliers

Nick Bolton is a very good linebacker and I pimped him hard his draft year but….. Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid are they’re perennial contenders 

Fred Warner is probably the best LB in the NFL  but he’s not why the 49ers made the nfc championship.

Roquan is a great LB bit the ravens are not winning the Super Bowl unless Lamar is right

Logan Wilson again I had in almost every mock I made when he came out but the offense is what runs the bengals, burrow and those WR are the engine.

[MWil23]

33 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think @MWil23 and others are simply saying “if these positions are so easily filled, I expect to see them adequately filled this season.” And tbh, that’s a fair argument.  As much as I agree with Berry’s philosophy on roster construction, he’s 100% ignored the position this off-season. When you do that things had better work in your favor.

⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️

Give me middle of the road production and play with little investment there and that’s fine. I don’t need big splashes or high picks.

What we have instead are awful players and castoffs like Deion Jones and backups as starters and no depth. That’s inexcusable.

[MWil23]

39 minutes ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

Hassan Reddick is more of a pure pass rusher than a true LB, and yes there are a handful of impactful linebackers but in today’s NFL they’re the outliers

Nick Bolton is a very good linebacker and I pimped him hard his draft year but….. Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid are they’re perennial contenders 

Fred Warner is probably the best LB in the NFL  but he’s not why the 49ers made the nfc championship.

Roquan is a great LB bit the ravens are not winning the Super Bowl unless Lamar is right

Logan Wilson again I had in almost every mock I made when he came out but the offense is what runs the bengals, burrow and those WR are the engine.

My entire point is debunking the erroneous “good teams don’t invest in linebackers” lie that people are buying. That’s literally not true.

And elite Front 7 play is absolutely why SF is always a contender.

[Dawgpoun8017]

37 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

My entire point is debunking the erroneous “good teams don’t invest in linebackers” lie that people are buying. That’s literally not true.

And elite Front 7 play is absolutely why SF is always a contender.

I don’t disagree their front 7 their DL is amazing, Fred Warner and Dre Greenlaw are very good LB and what makes them so valuable in todays NFL is they are above average in coverage. I do believe that the 49ers would be just as competitive without Warner though.  The money on defense are going to the DL and the secondary, If you’re a LB and you can’t cover in the NFL today you’re obsolete 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

I think LB is a fairly basic fix.  Every other year or so add a mid round guy and perhaps a late round guy.  Mid round players should be 3 down capable, late rounders can be a great STer, 2 down run stuffer, coverage guy who’s undersized, whatever.

I don’t think a 6’3 250 pound 2 down thumper is obsolete, especially as the season wears on, they just need to be used appropriately.

Unless you find an all pro type guy, I don’t think you look to spend much to resign guys.  Either they resign in a team friendly deal or you use the rookie deal to your advantage and move them along.

[candyman93]

It’s crazy how our UDFAs are outplaying our rookies (except DTR).

 

Hickman, Phelps, Diabate, and Watkins have all out played the rookies we picked.

 

Dudes who are desperate for a roster spot simply play as hard as humanly possible.

[AkronsWitness]

8 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think LB is a fairly basic fix.  Every other year or so add a mid round guy and perhaps a late round guy.  Mid round players should be 3 down capable, late rounders can be a great STer, 2 down run stuffer, coverage guy who’s undersized, whatever.

I don’t think a 6’3 250 pound 2 down thumper is obsolete, especially as the season wears on, they just need to be used appropriately.

Unless you find an all pro type guy, I don’t think you look to spend much to resign guys.  Either they resign in a team friendly deal or you use the rookie deal to your advantage and move them along.

I will not let you rob me from the joy of starting a Urlacher/Lewis/McGinest/Vilma/Wilson/Fletcher/Willis/Bruschi type in the middle of this defense. They will survive. They will conquer. They will live on.

Get me the biggest, hardest hitting, run stuffing intimidation machine on the market and lets go to war.

**This is why I wanted Denzel Perryman in the offseason but he signed for $14/hr for 1 year with someone else

Edited August 14, 2023 by AkronsWitness

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I will not let you rob me from the joy of starting a Urlacher/Lewis/McGinest/Vilma/Wilson/Fletcher/Willis/Bruschi type in the middle of this defense. They will survive. They will conquer. They will live on.

Get me the biggest, hardest hitting, run stuffing intimidation machine on the market and lets go to war.

**This is why I wanted Denzel Perryman in the offseason but he signed for $14/hr for 1 year with someone else

I’m pretty sure he’s getting more than $14/hr lol 

[AkronsWitness]

16 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I’m pretty sure he’s getting more than $14/hr lol 

I just want somebody who will HIT. Somebody like D'Qwell Jackson but more fearsome. Thats why I love JOK so much, when he comes up to a player, he is looking to make a splash play. I think I have trauma from watching Joey Porter/James Harrison physically kick the **** out of the Browns every year of my adolescence that I cant stop saying "I want one of those guys on our team!" 

I guess Myles will have to suffice.