Browns General Discussion

[Kiwibrown]

3 hours ago, candyman93 said:

It’s crazy how our UDFAs are outplaying our rookies (except DTR).

 

Hickman, Phelps, Diabate, and Watkins have all out played the rookies we picked.

 

Dudes who are desperate for a roster spot simply play as hard as humanly possible.

Most 4th-7th rounders get 2-3 training camps. Udfa get 1 or 2 max.

[NateDawg]

11 hours ago, candyman93 said:

It’s crazy how our UDFAs are outplaying our rookies (except DTR).

 

Hickman, Phelps, Diabate, and Watkins have all out played the rookies we picked.

 

Dudes who are desperate for a roster spot simply play as hard as humanly possible.

Prediction: All AB draftees still find a way on the roster.

[BetterCallSaul]

21 hours ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

Hassan Reddick is more of a pure pass rusher than a true LB, and yes there are a handful of impactful linebackers but in today’s NFL they’re the outliers

Sure

21 hours ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

Nick Bolton is a very good linebacker and I pimped him hard his draft year but….. Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid are they’re perennial contenders

well duh. No LBer has ever carried a team to a championship. No non-QB really has by himself. 

21 hours ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

Fred Warner is probably the best LB in the NFL  but he’s not why the 49ers made the nfc championship.

They wouldn’t be there without him though. 

21 hours ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

Roquan is a great LB bit the ravens are not winning the Super Bowl unless Lamar is right

Again, it’s not Roquan’s fault Lamar can’t throw the ball to his players accurately. Doesn’t make him invaluable. 

21 hours ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

Logan Wilson again I had in almost every mock I made when he came out but the offense is what runs the bengals, burrow and those WR are the engine.

Again, you still have to stop people, even if you’re scoring a ton of points.

 

You don’t need amazing splash playmaking linebackers, but you better have guys in there that understand where they need to be in run fits and have the awareness to drop into a hook zone and find work in pass coverage. Those aren’t hard things to do, but we’ve managed to make it look impossible. Most of the NFL is terrible against the run because they act like linebackers are useless. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Prediction: All AB draftees still find a way on the roster.

Why would you spend months/years watching these guys play and evaluating their play and progression over years only to cut them based on a couple weeks of their first training camp?
 

If you are regularly cutting rookie draft picks it means you either whiffed badly on the pick and realize it immediately (which shouldn’t happen often) or you had no plan for developing a young player.

[BetterCallSaul]

12 hours ago, candyman93 said:

It’s crazy how our UDFAs are outplaying our rookies (except DTR).

 

Hickman, Phelps, Diabate, and Watkins have all out played the rookies we picked.

 

Dudes who are desperate for a roster spot simply play as hard as humanly possible.

It’s way early, especially because the “reps” these guys have gotten that we have seen is about 1/100th of the total snap count. Practice is what will get these guys on the roster over a couple splash plays in a preseason game. Maybe those guys are the ones doing it in practice…maybe not. But I would trust 100 practice reps of good over a guy making a few routine catches in a preseason game.

I do like Watkins & always liked Diabate/Phelps. They could make it…moreso Diabate because our linebackers are poop. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Sure

well duh. No LBer has ever carried a team to a championship. No non-QB really has by himself. 

They wouldn’t be there without him though. 

Again, it’s not Roquan’s fault Lamar can’t throw the ball to his players accurately. Doesn’t make him invaluable. 

Again, you still have to stop people, even if you’re scoring a ton of points.

 

You don’t need amazing splash playmaking linebackers, but you better have guys in there that understand where they need to be in run fits and have the awareness to drop into a hook zone and find work in pass coverage. Those aren’t hard things to do, but we’ve managed to make it look impossible. Most of the NFL is terrible against the run because they act like linebackers are useless. 

It’s like the bar is set so low that teams feel it doesn’t need to be met at all.

No team needs to be amazing against the run to win as most offenses aren’t gonna be able to win with their ground game, but what we saw last year against teams like the Chargers and especially the Falcons was inexperienced.

[NateDawg]

4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Why would you spend months/years watching these guys play and evaluating their play and progression over years only to cut them based on a couple weeks of their first training camp?
 

If you are regularly cutting rookie draft picks it means you either whiffed badly on the pick and realize it immediately (which shouldn’t happen often) or you had no plan for developing a young player.

He has a much higher rate of his draft picks making the team than any other team in the NFL. Most teams cut at least one or two guys from their 53. Sometimes more. He had a stretch where all his guys from 2 straight years were on the team which was like 15 dudes out of a 53 man roster. Just pointing out the statistics here. If you are a late round pick, Cleveland is a good place to get drafted.

[BetterCallSaul]

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s like the bar is set so low that teams feel it doesn’t need to be met at all.

No team needs to be amazing against the run to win as most offenses aren’t gonna be able to win with their ground game, but what we saw last year against teams like the Chargers and especially the Falcons was inexperienced.

It doesn’t take an all-pro at linebacker to be great. You need a fast thinking smart guy that can fit properly to zone vs. gap scheme. You do need an athletic SAM/STAR if you’re gonna use a LB instead of a “big nickel,” which is rare in the NFL. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

17 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

He has a much higher rate of his draft picks making the team than any other team in the NFL.

How much higher?  I’ll be honest, I’ve never looked at the numbers.

17 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Most teams cut at least one or two guys from their 53. Sometimes more. He had a stretch where all his guys from 2 straight years were on the team which was like 15 dudes out of a 53 man roster. Just pointing out the statistics here. If you are a late round pick, Cleveland is a good place to get drafted.

Yeah this is all true and fair, but it does point to a flaw in the process of other teams.  If you’re cutting someone immediately that’s not a good thing.  It means the process you used to identify that player as someone worthy of a draft pick is flawed.

[NateDawg]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

How much higher?  I’ll be honest, I’ve never looked at the numbers.

I haven’t done an NFL wide analysis or anything. So it’s possible I am making things up and just speaking out of my arse. But worst from my off the cuff around the league it’s uncommon to have all 7-8 guys make the team in consecutive years and then occupy that much roster space with the year 2 guys. it would be one thing if some of those late round guys really looks good out there, but we had some guys not showing much out there on the bottom portion of the draft.

Going by traditional hit rate around the league, it’s alright if you throw the white flag on some of those late rounders. It doesn’t mean you are bad at evaluations. Not everyone pans out. Jmo.

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

I haven’t done an NFL wide analysis or anything. So it’s possible I am making things up and just speaking out of my arse. But worst from my off the cuff around the league it’s uncommon to have all 7-8 guys make the team in consecutive years and then occupy that much roster space with the year 2 guys. it would be one thing if some of those late round guys really looks good out there, but we had some guys not showing much out there on the bottom portion of the draft.

Going by traditional hit rate around the league, it’s alright if you throw the white flag on some of those late rounders. It doesn’t mean you are bad at evaluations. Not everyone pans out. Jmo.

https://en.as.com/nfl/what-percentage-of-drafted-players-make-an-nfl-roster-n/?outputType=amp
 

“Chosen players might be dismayed to learn that only 30% of those drafted will ever make it onto an NFL roster.

Of course, this number is skewed and isn’t a straight line across the board. The players taken in the first and second rounds will definitely be on the opening day roster, barring some unforeseen injury or something. But the players taken in the sixth and seventh rounds may have only a 10% or 15% chance, at least in the first year or two.”

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1600451-are-late-round-draft-picks-the-key-to-success-in-the-nfl.amp.html

“When you think about how many players are selected in Rounds 4 through 7 and subsequently cut before the season even starts, it helps you understand how top-heavy teams are. Based on the numbers provided by Draftmetrics, 71.8 percent of players drafted in Rounds 1, 2 and 3 are retained by the team that drafted them.

Only 28.2 percent of players drafted in Rounds 4, 5, 6 and 7 were retained at the end of their first contract—which is a number that is largely supported by an abundance of fourth-round picks re-upping. Rounds 5, 6 and 7 made up 16.7 percent of the 28.2 percent total.“

Takeaway:

AB keeps an exponentially higher percentage and rate of guys he drafts, especially Day 3 guys then almost any GM in modern history.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

9 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

https://en.as.com/nfl/what-percentage-of-drafted-players-make-an-nfl-roster-n/?outputType=amp
 

“Chosen players might be dismayed to learn that only 30% of those drafted will ever make it onto an NFL roster.

Of course, this number is skewed and isn’t a straight line across the board. The players taken in the first and second rounds will definitely be on the opening day roster, barring some unforeseen injury or something. But the players taken in the sixth and seventh rounds may have only a 10% or 15% chance, at least in the first year or two.”

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1600451-are-late-round-draft-picks-the-key-to-success-in-the-nfl.amp.html

“When you think about how many players are selected in Rounds 4 through 7 and subsequently cut before the season even starts, it helps you understand how top-heavy teams are. Based on the numbers provided by Draftmetrics, 71.8 percent of players drafted in Rounds 1, 2 and 3 are retained by the team that drafted them.

Only 28.2 percent of players drafted in Rounds 4, 5, 6 and 7 were retained at the end of their first contract—which is a number that is largely supported by an abundance of fourth-round picks re-upping. Rounds 5, 6 and 7 made up 16.7 percent of the 28.2 percent total.“

Takeaway:

AB keeps an exponentially higher percentage and rate of guys he drafts, especially Day 3 guys then almost any GM in modern history.

This is saying 70% of drafted players are cut before they’re ever on a roster?  Am I reading this correctly?  
 

There’s no way that’s correct.  

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

This is saying 70% of drafted players are cut before they’re ever on a roster?  Am I reading this correctly?  
 

There’s no way that’s correct.  

No, that’s those cut before their contract expires.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

No, that’s those cut before their contract expires.

 

17 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

https://en.as.com/nfl/what-percentage-of-drafted-players-make-an-nfl-roster-n/?outputType=amp
 

“Chosen players might be dismayed to learn that only 30% of those drafted will ever make it onto an NFL roster.

I’m talking about that quote.

 

[MWil23]

28 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Of course, this number is skewed and isn’t a straight line across the board. The players taken in the first and second rounds will definitely be on the opening day roster, barring some unforeseen injury or something. But the players taken in the sixth and seventh rounds may have only a 10% or 15% chance, at least in the first year or two.”

@LETSGOBROWNIES they include the 2nd year as well.

And I don’t know. You have the word “retain” also meaning traded. So guys cut outright like JFF and Gilbert. Guys traded like Trent Richardson, Corbett, and Erving.

Across the NFL like Rosen, Isaiah Wilson, etc I’d assume.