Pastor Dillon Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 There’s no set of teammates who need a ring as much as harden and Westbrook for legacy purposes. Their collective resumes are insane. harden: MVP 3x Runner up MVP 3x scoring champ 1x Assist champ 6x 1st team all NBA 6th Man 8x All Star westbrook: MVP 2x scoring champ 2x assist champ 3x triple double average 2x 1st team all NBA 9x All Star they are both missing the ring to launch this up several rungs in the GOAT ladder. CP3 probably has one of the two best resume for a player without a chance at winning 10x All Star all Star MVP 4x 1st team all NBA 7x 1st team Defense 4x Assist leader 6x Block Leader dwight Howard is right up there with CP3, though he’s got a really good shot at a ring this year if he plays, He’s also getting docked for not being a main guy but his resume is impressive 8x All Star 5x 1st team NBA 3x DPOY 4x 1st team Defense 5x rebounding leader 2x Block leader If he were to just come alive and say win a finals MVP, it would vault him way up there in GOAT rankings. Giannis and AD are guys who would also benefit from a ring, but have many more years to go after one. They will both need at least 1 to live up to their resume potential. AD needs on more than Giannis because Giannis will have at least 2 MVPs. A ring will mean more to Giannis though because his resume is stronger and can elevate him higher on the GOAT list than an AD ring can elevate AD. PG is in a strange boat. He’s got a top 3 chance at a ring this year. His resume isn’t quite as strong as some others but a ring would also benefit him. PG 6x all star 1x 1st team all NBA 2x all defense 1x steal leader most improved player the two guys with the best chance to win it all that are fighting for top top tier status are Lebron and Kawhi im skeptical on Kawhi’s all time status simply because he doesn’t do much regular season wise (when talking top 10-15 numbers) but 3 rings with 3 teams and possibly 3 finals MVPs would be nice to go with his: 2x DPOY 2x 1st team all NBA 4x All Star 3x 1st team Defense he’s gonna need to do some regular season work to catch guys like Curry and Durant. Lebron is basically in a category to himself. He’s fighting to become the unanimous 2nd best of all time. I think he’s close but some still argue. I don’t think he’s ever gonna catch MJ, at least not in a way that’s universally recognized. the Corona Championship could see some surprises, if a surprise team were to win it all, it could have a major impact. Pascsl Siakim could get a 2nd ring, this time as the man Jokic could get a ring and instantly get much more respect Gobert and Mitchell would each vault up there if the Jazz win the Celtics young core starts building their resumes with a win embiid probably won’t play long enough to really build a resume so a title would mean a lot to him jimmy Butler can get in the Kawhi range with a ring for Miami Luka takes a giant leap forward if the Mavs win it all it’s wide open and so much is on the line. I’d love to see my Rockets win of course, but I really want to see someone new win a ring, especially before we go back to seeing teams lead by Lebron, Kawhi, Curry, and Durant dominate next season. bucks, rockets, thunder, Jazz, nuggets, or 76ers. Mavs, Heat, Celtics have new players but they have won rings in the last 20 years. Clippers would be ok because I like PG, and they don’t have titles there but I don’t want to watch Leonard win a 3rd. Raptors just won one. I hate the lakers. we’ve suffered enough this year, just give us the Harden vs Giannis series that their little trash talking deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said: There’s no set of teammates who need a ring as much as harden and Westbrook for legacy purposes. Their collective resumes are insane. harden: MVP 3x Runner up MVP 3x scoring champ 1x Assist champ 6x 1st team all NBA 6th Man 8x All Star westbrook: MVP 2x scoring champ 2x assist champ 3x triple double average 2x 1st team all NBA 9x All Star they are both missing the ring to launch this up several rungs in the GOAT ladder. CP3 probably has one of the two best resume for a player without a chance at winning 10x All Star all Star MVP 4x 1st team all NBA 7x 1st team Defense 4x Assist leader 6x Block Leader dwight Howard is right up there with CP3, though he’s got a really good shot at a ring this year if he plays, He’s also getting docked for not being a main guy but his resume is impressive 8x All Star 5x 1st team NBA 3x DPOY 4x 1st team Defense 5x rebounding leader 2x Block leader If he were to just come alive and say win a finals MVP, it would vault him way up there in GOAT rankings. Giannis and AD are guys who would also benefit from a ring, but have many more years to go after one. They will both need at least 1 to live up to their resume potential. AD needs on more than Giannis because Giannis will have at least 2 MVPs. A ring will mean more to Giannis though because his resume is stronger and can elevate him higher on the GOAT list than an AD ring can elevate AD. PG is in a strange boat. He’s got a top 3 chance at a ring this year. His resume isn’t quite as strong as some others but a ring would also benefit him. PG 6x all star 1x 1st team all NBA 2x all defense 1x steal leader most improved player the two guys with the best chance to win it all that are fighting for top top tier status are Lebron and Kawhi im skeptical on Kawhi’s all time status simply because he doesn’t do much regular season wise (when talking top 10-15 numbers) but 3 rings with 3 teams and possibly 3 finals MVPs would be nice to go with his: 2x DPOY 2x 1st team all NBA 4x All Star 3x 1st team Defense he’s gonna need to do some regular season work to catch guys like Curry and Durant. Lebron is basically in a category to himself. He’s fighting to become the unanimous 2nd best of all time. I think he’s close but some still argue. I don’t think he’s ever gonna catch MJ, at least not in a way that’s universally recognized. the Corona Championship could see some surprises, if a surprise team were to win it all, it could have a major impact. Pascsl Siakim could get a 2nd ring, this time as the man Jokic could get a ring and instantly get much more respect Gobert and Mitchell would each vault up there if the Jazz win the Celtics young core starts building their resumes with a win embiid probably won’t play long enough to really build a resume so a title would mean a lot to him jimmy Butler can get in the Kawhi range with a ring for Miami Luka takes a giant leap forward if the Mavs win it all it’s wide open and so much is on the line. I’d love to see my Rockets win of course, but I really want to see someone new win a ring, especially before we go back to seeing teams lead by Lebron, Kawhi, Curry, and Durant dominate next season. bucks, rockets, thunder, Jazz, nuggets, or 76ers. Mavs, Heat, Celtics have new players but they have won rings in the last 20 years. Clippers would be ok because I like PG, and they don’t have titles there but I don’t want to watch Leonard win a 3rd. Raptors just won one. I hate the lakers. we’ve suffered enough this year, just give us the Harden vs Giannis series that their little trash talking deserves. Very good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 No doubt in my mind that a championship would do the most for the careers and legacies of Harden and CP3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Dillon Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 32 minutes ago, champ11 said: No doubt in my mind that a championship would do the most for the careers and legacies of Harden and CP3 That was my initial thought as well, but as I wrote the post, I figured I had to add Westbrook in there after looking at the resumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 16 minutes ago, Pastor Dillon said: That was my initial thought as well, but as I wrote the post, I figured I had to add Westbrook in there after looking at the resumes. For sure. Would be major for RW as well. I just think CP3 and Harden are gonna end up much higher on all time lists than Westbrook so obviously a title is going to do a lot for them. The main detractor for both of them is the lack of a championship. I don't think many people will ever look at Russ as a #1 on a championship team type of guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Dillon Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, champ11 said: For sure. Would be major for RW as well. I just think CP3 and Harden are gonna end up much higher on all time lists than Westbrook so obviously a title is going to do a lot for them. The main detractor for both of them is the lack of a championship. I don't think many people will ever look at Russ as a #1 on a championship team type of guy. And the irony of CP3 getting hurt possibly costing both of them a ring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Rings don’t mean anything when it comes to legacy in my opinion. There are a ton of dopes with rings and a ton of all-time greats without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Dillon Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 11 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: Rings don’t mean anything when it comes to legacy in my opinion. There are a ton of dopes with rings and a ton of all-time greats without them. That’s a bold statement. I think 99% of the sports world would disagree. The failure to win definitely harms a legacy. Karl Malone comes to mind. I believe he was 0-3 in the finals. If he had won a ring, beat Jordan in the finals, he’d be way higher on the list than he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 35 minutes ago, Pastor Dillon said: That’s a bold statement. I think 99% of the sports world would disagree. The failure to win definitely harms a legacy. Karl Malone comes to mind. I believe he was 0-3 in the finals. If he had won a ring, beat Jordan in the finals, he’d be way higher on the list than he is. I just look at how easy it is for guys to win rings in certain situations and then vice versa. Like LeBron James trying to dethrone the GOAT team 4 years in a row. Not gonna happen. Like Karl Malone trying to take down the most prolific player of all-time. Then look at the rings the Lakers got. Or the Warriors. Who did they have to beat in the finals that made their legacy so special? I feel like those teams were so much better than their opponents that it would have been an epic failure to not win those rings. Am I really impressed that Kobe beat the Orlando Magic in the NBA finals? Am I really impressed that Golden State beat the Cavs in 2015 when Kyrie and Love were both gone? Obviously Curry/Klay/Kobe are awesome and deserving of rings. But everyone’s path to those rings is heavily skewed by supporting cast. Hell, LBJ in his absolute physical prime never won one because his running mate was freaking Larry Hughes. I just think it’s an idiotic argument to use rings to put down someone’s legacy when it’s a team sport. You have to look at circumstances to determine if winning rings matters or not. For example, Dirk beating the Heat and Kawhi beating the Warriors...those rings hold way more value than the rings Curry and Durant have. It’s all about circumstance. Too many good players don’t have them whereas too many meh players do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said: I just look at how easy it is for guys to win rings in certain situations and then vice versa. Like LeBron James trying to dethrone the GOAT team 4 years in a row. Not gonna happen. Like Karl Malone trying to take down the most prolific player of all-time. Then look at the rings the Lakers got. Or the Warriors. Who did they have to beat in the finals that made their legacy so special? I feel like those teams were so much better than their opponents that it would have been an epic failure to not win those rings. Am I really impressed that Kobe beat the Orlando Magic in the NBA finals? Am I really impressed that Golden State beat the Cavs in 2015 when Kyrie and Love were both gone? Obviously Curry/Klay/Kobe are awesome and deserving of rings. But everyone’s path to those rings is heavily skewed by supporting cast. Hell, LBJ in his absolute physical prime never won one because his running mate was freaking Larry Hughes. I just think it’s an idiotic argument to use rings to put down someone’s legacy when it’s a team sport. You have to look at circumstances to determine if winning rings matters or not. For example, Dirk beating the Heat and Kawhi beating the Warriors...those rings hold way more value than the rings Curry and Durant have. It’s all about circumstance. Too many good players don’t have them whereas too many meh players do. I think you guys are arguing different things. Winning a ring is circumstantial. You aren't inherently a better basketball player because you have a ring vs. not having one. However, your legacy is absolutely enhanced by having one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Bullet Club said: I think you guys are arguing different things. Winning a ring is circumstantial. You aren't inherently a better basketball player because you have a ring vs. not having one. However, your legacy is absolutely enhanced by having one. I just think about what would have happened if LeBron stayed in Cleveland on garbage teams for the entirety of his career and gone ringless. Would we consider him better than Kobe? D-Wade? Would he be in the GOAT discussion with no rings? Probably not. Which is why I think it’s dumb. Winning a ring is nice, but it doesn’t validate someone in my eyes. I try to keep wins and losses separate from ones legacy just because of the variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinneasGage Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 guys like CP3 Harden Westbrook Jimmy Butler (would be ******* wild) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 33 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: I just think about what would have happened if LeBron stayed in Cleveland on garbage teams for the entirety of his career and gone ringless. Would we consider him better than Kobe? D-Wade? Would he be in the GOAT discussion with no rings? Probably not. Which is why I think it’s dumb. Winning a ring is nice, but it doesn’t validate someone in my eyes. I try to keep wins and losses separate from ones legacy just because of the variables. With no rings there is no way LeBron is considered top 5 ever. Is that right? Like all things it depends. If he played like he did against Dallas 8 times? Then it's probably warranted for him to be lower in the rankings. If he played like he did against Golden State 8 times? Then he should probably still hold a spot among the pantheon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Dillon Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Bullet Club said: With no rings there is no way LeBron is considered top 5 ever. Is that right? Like all things it depends. If he played like he did against Dallas 8 times? Then it's probably warranted for him to be lower in the rankings. If he played like he did against Golden State 8 times? Then he should probably still hold a spot among the pantheon. Rings are not the end all be all but they are important, especially when talking all time greatness. Malone is a perfect example. He did it all, including number 2 all time scoring but never got his ring. That’s why he’s never mentioned in the top 10-15 of all time. I think with 2 or 3 rings, he would be. winning the championship is what it’s all about. For a player to never win it all, regardless of the circumstances, it hurts their legacy. and a ring is a ring, I don’t think you can knock a guy because “the league wasn’t that good”. Rings are hard to come by. think about it, Lebron and Kawhi are the only stars with rings in this years playoffs. I guess you could add in Lowry and Siakim if you want but they are barely household names. not many guys get rings. If someone outside LA wins it all this year, it’s going to majorly enhance someone’s legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 As a westbrick hater and Chris Paul lover I’m rooting hard for OKC. He deserves a title. Best pure PG of his generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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