Pettine's Gone, but Outpost is Back

[MacReady]

55 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

As frustrating as 30 points is. They came into the game averaging 29. This could have been worse.

Pettine doesn’t even get Trubisky this year to bring his points allowed average down. There’s no way in hell the Packers are a top 10 scoring defense this year.

Which means we have to fire Pettine week 12 about.  Work out the kinks for 4 weeks, then surprise every offense in the playoffs.

Giants 2007, 2011 style.

[Beast]

9 hours ago, Reaper said:

Does MVS have any catches?

No, and that's why Pettine needs to be fired!

[MacReady]

Lol, has temper tantrum for one quote and then comes into a thread purely dedicated to what he hates reading about. 

[Beast]

8 hours ago, Reaper said:

Burke made a thing.

About damn time Burks did something! 

DL Adams and CB Jackson too... 

[spilltray]

Seriously, whining about the scoring defense is like calling 2011 "the worst defense in NFL history".  They have the 3rd highest point differential (+37) in the NFL behind Baltimore (+49) and Indy (+39), with Baltimore having to face KC tonight. They faced a good offense without some key players last night and when push came to shove, they got enough stops to put the game out of reach in the 4th quarter. There have been garbage points allowed in all 3 games after the outcome was all but certain.

 

The sky is not falling, Chicken Little.

[MacReady]

Packers are 21st in points allowed. 

The Jaguars who just traded their entire defense the last three years are better than us.
The Panthers who just had their best defensive player retire are better than us (I literally don't recognize a single name in their secondary other than Boston).
Redskins are better than us (this one has more talent than we do, especially on the defensive line)

Giants are better than us - This one is really funny because the Giants have Fackrell and Martinez on their team right now.  They've got no talent really.  Other than Dexter Lawrence...

Bills are better than us.  With the help of Hyde, who sucked with a sucky coordinator and then proved sometimes players are put in terrible positions by their terrible coordinators.

The Bengals are better than us. 
The Titans are better than us.
The Rams are better than us.
The Broncos are better than us with their best defensive player out every game so far.
The Patriots are better than us with every player on that defense choosing to opt out on the season.
The Buccaneers are better than us. 
The Cardinals are better than us. 
The Colts are the #2 scoring team in the league.  They basically have Leonard and Buckner.

None of those teams have Clark, Smith, Smith, Gary, Alexander, King, Savage, Amos. The talent that this defense needs and their production is a mixture that makes no sense. 

[Beast]

8 hours ago, squire12 said:

Extend Pettine!!!!!!!!!

Starting DL of Lowry, Adams, Keke, Lancaster

Garvin played a lot of snaps at EDGE

ILB for the bulk of the game .... Summers, Burks, Barnes.

 

That is a tough group to play at NO and that team and come out with a W

You're not wrong, and a hell lot of Redmond too, the defense has some clearly big holes in talent, got to wonder if next year is going to be an all defense draft like this year is all offense,.. of course you got to pick what drops to ya....

But if they don't resign King then they need to improve CBs and DTs for sure... ILBer has holes but Martin got a lot of pre-season hype, Barnes hasn't looked bad for an UDFA rookie and.so maybe their is hope for growth from within there. Though could use a good coverage LB.

And Kamara killed us, but without Kamara, Brees was held to less than 150 yards and only 1 TD, not bad against the Saints

[MacReady]

Just now, spilltray said:

Seriously, whining about the scoring defense is like calling 2011 "the worst defense in NFL history".  They have the 3rd highest point differential (+37) in the NFL behind Baltimore (+49) and Indy (+39), with Baltimore having to face KC tonight. They faced a good offense without some key players last night and when push came to shove, they got enough stops to put the game out of reach in the 4th quarter. There have been garbage points allowed in all 3 games after the outcome was all but certain.

 

The sky is not falling, Chicken Little.

This is like taking steroids and working upper body 6 days a week and then taking a rest day instead of doing a legs day.

This is the Packers team right now. 

I don't care how good your offense is, you can't win a Super Bowl without a defense capable of holding a team under 23.

[MacReady]

Just now, Beast said:

You're not wrong, and a hell lot of Redmond too, the defense has some clearly big holes in talent,

If you're going to post in this thread I have every right to counter any point you make.

There isn't a team in the league without "clearly big holes in talent" on defense.  You act like every single team has a cloning factory where they can spit out fits at every position.

Kirksey was a Pettine guy.  Pettine knew him and got him.  That's what Pettine wants at ILB. 
Gary - 12th overall pick.  The Raiders got more out of a 5th round pick than the Packers got out of a 12th overall pick.
Smith - Major free agent addition that had 16 sacks last year.
Smith - Major free agent addition that had 11 sacks last year.
Alexander - First round corner who is locking down an entire side of the defense this year.
King - Allowed a passer rating of under 30 in the 4th quarter last year and is capable of being elite.
Clark - A top 10 DL in the league.
Amos - A major free agent addition.
Savage - A first round draft pick.

That's 9/11 players with extreme talent and you're acting like it's a matter of players. 

Name one single team that has less talent on defense than the Packers. 

[Packerraymond]

I can't believe these words are coming out of my mouth, but Outpost is right and you all are wrong. Does anyone see Pettine being able to stop Wilson and the Seahawks? Out-coach Shanny in SF? Stop that Saints offense with Michael Thomas? Hell no. We're back to being a great team that relies on our offense being perfect every week. Pettine has gone soft and bland. In a year where you need as a defense to "bring your own juice" our DC brings absolutely none to this group. I like the scheme when it's called aggressively. The UW system needs money, send a blank check down there in return for Leonhard and let's get someone young and energetic to coach this bunch. Too talented to play this crappy.

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

I can't believe these words are coming out of my mouth, but Outpost is right and you all are wrong.

I am going to frame this on my wall.

[spilltray]

25 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

This is like taking steroids and working upper body 6 days a week and then taking a rest day instead of doing a legs day.

This is the Packers team right now. 

I don't care how good your offense is, you can't win a Super Bowl without a defense capable of holding a team under 23.

That's an arbitrary number. You absolutely can, and I fully think the Packers are. They are a mid level defense. The score looks worse than it is because late game scores haven't mattered in the first two games.

 

Would you have felt better if NO hadn't scored that last field goal?

 

They got stops. Enough, vs a good offense.

 

Yes I think they can slow down Wilson, at least more than the Seahawks can slow down Rodgers. SF isn't some juggernaut either. The Saints WITH Thomas? You have to convince me Brees has enough arm left to make that work, I'm skeptical.

 

Average D and Elite O can be a winning combo.

[persiandud]

I agree, Pettine ain't it. If we lose this year I'm 99% sure it'll be on him. 

[MacReady]

Listen, here's the thing.  Blaming your players is an excuse that we went through for 8 years with Capers.  No, Capers never had all the talent in the world.  He never had enough talent.  This is, however, "perfect world" logic. 

In a perfect world, you have capable starters at every single position.  It's not a perfect world.

Look at our offense right now.  We just dropped 37 against a solid defense with our RT hurt, our offensive line in shambles, Davante Adams out and no tight ends to speak of (all of which had great games in spite of generally sucking or being way old). 

Pettine has 9 NINE plus players on defense as far as talent.  You don't find that kind of investment in defense anymore.

You've got Josh Jackson, who everyone knew thrived in zone, might not be the best in man coverage.  Pettine doesn't put him in a position to succeed and he rides the bench.  A second round pick riding the bench. 

You've got Oren Burks, a third round pick.  Why was he not coached into taking that Will Redmond role? 

You've got Will Redmond who can't cover, can't tackle, and you're putting him at a tweener position where he's supposed to be able to cover and tackle.

You've got Chandon Sullivan who is a willing and able tackler, can also cover, was a safety, is the exact same size as Redmond and he's not getting the snaps Redmond is. 

You've got Preston Smith who was an elite EDGE rusher.  You're putting Z. Smith in the middle to account for the lack of Clark, but then you've got Preston Smith dropping into coverage?

You're putting Garvin in instead of Gary? 

Raven Greene is healthy.  He's had 18.9% of the defensive snaps in the first two weeks.  How often do you hear his name called?  I didn't even know he was PLAYING that's how rarely his name gets called.  Then you've got Will Redmond, who has been "in on" (by in on I mean sucked and contributed to) every big offensive play on the season.  He's at 32% of the defensive snaps. 

This reeks of a lack of accountability and complacency. 

In no way should Redmond have gotten back into the game last night after that Kamara debacle. 

You've got:

4th - Lowry (played better and got his second contract playing for Capers).
4th - Martinez (gone, playing SIGNIFICANTLY better for the Giants).
1st - Clark (broke out under Capers)
3rd - Adams (bust so far)
2nd - Jackson (Hardly sees the field with just 6% of the defensive snaps through 2 weeks)
2nd - King (who has shown the ability to be a true lockdown corner)
2nd - Jones (who basically quit the team over his role and was a hard bust)
1st - Alexander (who is the heart and soul of the defense, a leader, extremely talented, big playmaker and locking down his man)
3rd - Burks (who has been a complete bust in every role)
1st - Gary (who has physical talent most NFL players dream of)
1st - Savage (who has shown elite closing speed)
Contract - Kirksey (who was no doubt hand picked by Pettine)
Contract - Z. Smith (Who is elite)
Contract - P. Smith (Who is elite)
Contract - Amos (Who was elite)

That's 14 ****ing players who were either a 1st-4th round pick or significant free agent additions. 

You can't have your cake and eat it, too.  Either Gute is God-awful at evaluating defensive talent, or your coordinator isn't getting the production out of the talent your GM has given him.

No other team in the LEAGUE has invested this much into their defense since Pettine took over.

How you can convince yourself the issues don't come right from the top of the defense (coordinator) is beyond me. 

[MacReady]

Just now, spilltray said:

That's an arbitrary number.

No.  Lol.  It's not an arbitrary number.

That's the AVERAGE amount of points scored in a game. 

Every single winning defense in Super Bowl history has kept their playoff opponents to an average less than 23 points.

IN THE HISTORY OF THE SUPER BOWL, NO TEAM HAS AVERAGED MORE THAN 23 POINTS ALLOWED IN THE PLAYOFFS AND WON THE SUPER BOWL. 

Quote

They are a mid level defense.

You're right.  They're a mid level defense with a top level defensive investment.  Are you okay with that? 

If I told you you could have a mid level car at the cost of a Lamborghini, would you take that deal, or would you find a new car salesman (coordinator)?