Browns Fan Psychosis, Reality VS Misperception, & "They are who we should've thought they were"

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, BrownLeader said:

I'm not so sure about that. It's was clear even from the outside that Hue wasn't really in Kessler's corner. It's even harder to succeed when you know the coach is passing you over. The other thing is that the pre season and camp obviously aren't real games. I've seen plenty QBs look mediocre in the off season then play really well regular season. If Hue was fairly giving Kessler an opportunity this year, he would've been the opening day starter.

I agree that Kizer has played relatively well under the circumstances. But I thought the very same of Kessler last season.

 

I mean, Hue was his biggest champion when we drafted him.

Other than his play style, what else could have sour Hue on him? It's not like he's a diva or head case or whatever.

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, BrownLeader said:

I'm not so sure about that. It's was clear even from the outside that Hue wasn't really in Kessler's corner. It's even harder to succeed when you know the coach is passing you over. The other thing is that the pre season and camp obviously aren't real games. I've seen plenty QBs look mediocre in the off season then play really well regular season. If Hue was fairly giving Kessler an opportunity this year, he would've been the opening day starter.

I agree that Kizer has played relatively well under the circumstances. But I thought the very same of Kessler last season.

 

Are you also going to say osinabit wasn't given a chance either?  Kessler was given every bit of an opportunity to win the job and he didn't. I'm convinced Hue wanted to sit Kizer for awhile but nobody stepped up. He was forced to start him. Everybody that has went to camp has stated Kessler was bust not good. I have associates that went to camp that said he didn't look good. Preseason he did not look good. I don't recall him moving the team at all. Please don't tell me there is some kind of agenda that he's our emergency 3rd QB. 

[Kiwibrown]

Well done bonanza. Well done. 
i think if Kessler had perceived value in the NFL we would of shifted him by now. We really need a QB to get hurt so we can trade hinm for a WR.

[Bonanza23]

25 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Well done bonanza. Well done. 
i think if Kessler had perceived value in the NFL we would of shifted him by now. We really need a QB to get hurt so we can trade hinm for a WR.

If we could get a bonifide WR for him I'd do post haste if not sooner!

[Mind Character]

3 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

I'm not so sure about that. It's was clear even from the outside that Hue wasn't really in Kessler's corner. It's even harder to succeed when you know the coach is passing you over. The other thing is that the pre season and camp obviously aren't real games. I've seen plenty QBs look mediocre in the off season then play really well regular season. If Hue was fairly giving Kessler an opportunity this year, he would've been the opening day starter.

I agree that Kizer has played relatively well under the circumstances. But I thought the very same of Kessler last season.

 

I think Cody battled, played well, and last year. I'm glad he's on the team and could put us in a winning situation if called upon; however, Cody never had flash plays like Kizer (preseason or reg. season) with in the pocket blitz avoidance athletic sidestepping and up stepping or deep ball success.

I actually am of the opinion that Hue was pulling for Cody to take the job so they could develop Kizer and not have to play Brock.

I get that some players are just gamers; it's hard to argue that the coaches didn't see enough of Cody as a number 1 given all his practice reps and game film.

[Thomas5737]

Cody was who Cody is in the preseason. 63% completions, 88 rating and no picks with only 1 TD (and that fumble on the handoff which was his fault). Kizer completed about half of his passes (25-49) in the preseason and had a 72 rating but did much better in game 1 of the preseason playing in the 2nd half against poorer competition (114 rating)  than he did when he started game three against mostly NFL players for the Bucs (28 rating). Kessler never started a game in the preseason as he realistically lost his job during camp (or the draft or in the Brock trade) and even though he performed the best numbers wise in the preseason (besides Hogan who was never even in the competition prior to game 4 of the preseason) he has been a healthy scratch. He has a weak arm. It doesn't fit Hue's offense. That is the only reason Brock started the first two games over him, even though he is terrible he at least theoretically can throw the ball down the field, even though he is as bad at it as any QB in the league.

I think Kessler (or maybe Hogan but I haven't completely bought in to that yet) gives the Browns the best chance to win now but Kessler will never be Hue's QB so he doesn't want to waste him time on him as we aren't winning anything this year anyway. I think we should trade Kessler to the highest bidder or just cut him and let him compete with Cutler or some other QB with an offense that may suit him better. If I was ready to get rid of Hue (I'm not) I'd hold on to Kessler because he is a decent QB even factoring in the weak arm but he can only play in certain systems (probably 90% of them) but this isn't one of them.

It is more fun to just trash Kessler for whatever reason but he is the best QB on the team from what I've seen. He isn't the best QB for the team though.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

 

It is more fun to just trash Kessler for whatever reason but he is the best QB on the team from what I've seen. He isn't the best QB for the team though.

Great line, very well said.

Especially for you. 

[BrownLeader]

16 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, Hue was his biggest champion when we drafted him.

Other than his play style, what else could have sour Hue on him? It's not like he's a diva or head case or whatever.

His arm. Even though it's the same arm on tape from USC. And it's clear now that "trust me" thing was coach speak. Brissett was the target, and Kessler became the fallback.

14 hours ago, Mind Character said:

I think Cody battled, played well, and last year. I'm glad he's on the team and could put us in a winning situation if called upon; however, Cody never had flash plays like Kizer (preseason or reg. season) with in the pocket blitz avoidance athletic sidestepping and up stepping or deep ball success.

I actually am of the opinion that Hue was pulling for Cody to take the job so they could develop Kizer and not have to play Brock.

I get that some players are just gamers; it's hard to argue that the coaches didn't see enough of Cody as a number 1 given all his practice reps and game film.

I disagree. Regular season, Kessler had a lot of impressive conversions last year that he had no business making, in and out of the pocket. It was probably the best thing he did last year.

Someone looked at game film from last year and still declared Coleman the teams #1 WR heading into this season, so obviously evaluations aren't a strong suit in there. But the QB decision is probably all Hue.

13 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Cody was who Cody is in the preseason. 63% completions, 88 rating and no picks with only 1 TD (and that fumble on the handoff which was his fault). Kizer completed about half of his passes (25-49) in the preseason and had a 72 rating but did much better in game 1 of the preseason playing in the 2nd half against poorer competition (114 rating)  than he did when he started game three against mostly NFL players for the Bucs (28 rating). Kessler never started a game in the preseason as he realistically lost his job during camp (or the draft or in the Brock trade) and even though he performed the best numbers wise in the preseason (besides Hogan who was never even in the competition prior to game 4 of the preseason) he has been a healthy scratch. He has a weak arm. It doesn't fit Hue's offense. That is the only reason Brock started the first two games over him, even though he is terrible he at least theoretically can throw the ball down the field, even though he is as bad at it as any QB in the league.

I think Kessler (or maybe Hogan but I haven't completely bought in to that yet) gives the Browns the best chance to win now but Kessler will never be Hue's QB so he doesn't want to waste him time on him as we aren't winning anything this year anyway. I think we should trade Kessler to the highest bidder or just cut him and let him compete with Cutler or some other QB with an offense that may suit him better. If I was ready to get rid of Hue (I'm not) I'd hold on to Kessler because he is a decent QB even factoring in the weak arm but he can only play in certain systems (probably 90% of them) but this isn't one of them.

It is more fun to just trash Kessler for whatever reason but he is the best QB on the team from what I've seen. He isn't the best QB for the team though.

This. Although I think it's just as appropriate to say Hue might not be the best coach for the team.

Hue soured on Kessler last year during the Thursday Bengals game. He pulled him from a close and very winnable game that he wasn't playing poorly at. The team promptly got blown out after that. Probably the low point for Hue last year. It was clear once Kessler eventually got back in there that he was being coached to force things deep. Just as Griffin did when he got back in there. Those ugly, repeated 50-50 balls to a hopelessly covered Coleman are burned into my brain.

[Kiwibrown]

you mean the Ravens game?
he shouldn't of been pulled that game, but he did miss a TD pass to CC on a double move, instead he hit TP for 10-15 yards. 

[Bonanza23]

Oh my word you guys and the Hue yanking Kessler in the RAVENS game. One more time. He had ONE GOOD DRIVE that game leading to a 7 point lead. ONE DRIVE. He was useless until Hue yanked him. USELESS. McCown was really good against the RAVENS the game prior. Hue wanted a spark and unfortunately he didn't get it. It was the best move he could make. It just backfired and we lost. My word, try to fit crap in your narrative all you want. Kessler gives us no more power to win than Kizer. We suck. Kessler gives us the best attempt to suck even more with his inability to move the ball. 

[Kiwibrown]

Im not an apologist for anything, I thought it was rough on Kessler who was doing okay in that game. 

[Bonanza23]

14 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Im not an apologist for anything, I thought it was rough on Kessler who was doing okay in that game. 

Yeah I can understand. I can see your side. Unfortunately I can always see both sides. That leads me to see hues side. He wanted to win, he needed a spark. He thought (justifiably so) that McCown could do it. It failed now some question him. But the fact remains hoyer errr Kessler was not good after the first drive. And that has continued until now. 

We suck

[Thomas5737]

11 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

Oh my word you guys and the Hue yanking Kessler in the RAVENS game. One more time. He had ONE GOOD DRIVE that game leading to a 7 point lead. ONE DRIVE. He was useless until Hue yanked him. USELESS. McCown was really good against the RAVENS the game prior. Hue wanted a spark and unfortunately he didn't get it. It was the best move he could make. It just backfired and we lost. My word, try to fit crap in your narrative all you want. Kessler gives us no more power to win than Kizer. We suck. Kessler gives us the best attempt to suck even more with his inability to move the ball. 

But he averaged over 7 yards per pass attempt with an admittedly low 3.1 TD% but both of which both are a good bit ahead of what we've gotten this year from our starter. I know you don't like stats and he wasn't playing great against the Ravens (although when he last attempted a pass the Browns lead 7-6) and McCown historically played great against the Ravens so I too understand Hue's decision but it turned out in hindsight to be a terrible one because McCown couldn't have played any worse and we lost by 21 points. However, if you take the stance that the rookie isn't doing much offensively and we should try to get a spark does that carry over into this year or was that just okay last year? This year the pass blocking by the offensive line has been much better than last, the weapons are worse because TP was better last year than Britt is this year but it isn't like we graded out as an A last year and an F this year, both years get failing grades at receiver.

As far as competing, we should have won the Dolphin game at the end of regulation. We had a 4th quarter lead vs. the Skins. We lost by 2 (wasn't that close really but had we recovered the onside kick who knows) to the Titans where Kessler passed for 336 yards and the leading rusher had 17 yards. We scored 10 points in his 3 drives against the Bengals before he was injured (were still losing 14-10) and lost 31-17. We were smoked by the Cowboys, just couldn't match their output. We know about the Raven game. He struggled in the Steeler game and McCown did add a temporary spark until his fumble 6. Overall, we competed in the majority of his games mostly because he took care of the football. He didn't win games, I can acknowledge that. But sure, with him starting we'd be 0-6 by now.

[Bonanza23]

15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

But he averaged over 7 yards per pass attempt with an admittedly low 3.1 TD% but both of which both are a good bit ahead of what we've gotten this year from our starter. I know you don't like stats and he wasn't playing great against the Ravens (although when he last attempted a pass the Browns lead 7-6) and McCown historically played great against the Ravens so I too understand Hue's decision but it turned out in hindsight to be a terrible one because McCown couldn't have played any worse and we lost by 21 points. However, if you take the stance that the rookie isn't doing much offensively and we should try to get a spark does that carry over into this year or was that just okay last year? This year the pass blocking by the offensive line has been much better than last, the weapons are worse because TP was better last year than Britt is this year but it isn't like we graded out as an A last year and an F this year, both years get failing grades at receiver.

As far as competing, we should have won the Dolphin game at the end of regulation. We had a 4th quarter lead vs. the Skins. We lost by 2 (wasn't that close really but had we recovered the onside kick who knows) to the Titans where Kessler passed for 336 yards and the leading rusher had 17 yards. We scored 10 points in his 3 drives against the Bengals before he was injured (were still losing 14-10) and lost 31-17. We were smoked by the Cowboys, just couldn't match their output. We know about the Raven game. He struggled in the Steeler game and McCown did add a temporary spark until his fumble 6. Overall, we competed in the majority of his games mostly because he took care of the football. He didn't win games, I can acknowledge that. But sure, with him starting we'd be 0-6 by now.

But he wasn't moving the team. Not moving the team equals no points. This is not a failure on hues part. 

[Thomas5737]

56 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

But he wasn't moving the team. Not moving the team equals no points. This is not a failure on hues part. 

I'm not trying to assign blame on anyone, Kessler moved the chains pretty well last year. Not always and it wasn't an exciting offense but we scored 70 in his first 3 starts, we've scored 63 so far this year. Sure, we had a defensive TD against the Dolphins but we also had 3 missed FGs that game. He wasn't as bad as a lot of people are making him out to be. You don't end up with a 90+ rating as a rookie behind that offensive line and limited weapons if you are bad. He doesn't fit our offensive gameplan and is inactive largely because of that and I understand that. Still, he is a good dink and dunker and would have a high completion percentage and low INT numbers. Kizer is more likely to win a game for you even if we haven't seen it yet but Kessler would game in and game out would give you a more competitive final score.