Best WR in Football

[tyler735]

Kind of wish the Saints would put Winston in at QB, would be fun to see Michael Thomas put up 100+ yard receiving games with 4 different QB's in 2 seasons. As it stands, he's had multiple 100+ yard receiving games with 3 different QB's the past 2 seasons.

[GSUeagles14]

13 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Kind of wish the Saints would put Winston in at QB, would be fun to see Michael Thomas put up 100+ yard receiving games with 4 different QB's in 2 seasons. As it stands, he's had multiple 100+ yard receiving games with 3 different QB's the past 2 seasons.

kind of irrelevant to the topic, yeah? Or are you actually going to argue Thomas being the best? I mean, other top WRs have dealt with injuries this year so lets cross that off the list. It hes just in the conversation?

[tyler735]

45 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

kind of irrelevant to the topic, yeah? Or are you actually going to argue Thomas being the best? I mean, other top WRs have dealt with injuries this year so lets cross that off the list. It hes just in the conversation?

Just a fun fact in a thread about best WR, and very much relevant, as at one point in time, posters on here argued part of the reason for Thomas's production was that he was a product of Drew Brees, so yeah still find it a bit funny when Thomas can pull in multiple 100+ yard receiving games with a glorified RB throwing to him. Granted it was against a garbage team, but still.

I mean,, he is the reigning Offensive Player of the year dealing with injuries most of the season. If you are still going to argue McCaffrey as best RB in NFL, you better believe I'm still going to argue Michael Thomas as being in the conversation for best WR still.

Edited December 7, 2020 by tyler735

[GSUeagles14]

56 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Just a fun fact in a thread about best WR, and very much relevant, as at one point in time, posters on here argued part of the reason for Thomas's production was that he was a product of Drew Brees, so yeah still find it a bit funny when Thomas can pull in multiple 100+ yard receiving games with a glorified RB throwing to him. Granted it was against a garbage team, but still.

I mean,, he is the reigning Offensive Player of the year dealing with injuries most of the season. If you are still going to argue McCaffrey as best RB in NFL, you better believe I'm still going to argue Michael Thomas as being in the conversation for best WR still.

I mean, I know youd argue for him but it doesnt mean it makes sense to. Michael Thomas has played this year, in fact hes played in just shy of half the games. Hes averaging 60 yards/game.  Julio Jones has had a hamstring issue most of the year, Adams had an ankle issue for a decent stretch and both are vastly outproducing Thomas. 

 

Cmc when hes actually played (which hasnt been much) is still producing, hes 2nd in the league in yards/game. Kinda different, yeah?

[tyler735]

21 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

I mean, I know youd argue for him but it doesnt mean it makes sense to. Michael Thomas has played this year, in fact hes played in just shy of half the games. Hes averaging 60 yards/game.  Julio Jones has had a hamstring issue most of the year, Adams had an ankle issue for a decent stretch and both are vastly outproducing Thomas. 

 

Cmc when hes actually played (which hasnt been much) is still producing, hes 2nd in the league in yards/game. Kinda different, yeah?

Not all injuries are they same. Michael Thomas looks to be healthy again and looking like his usual self in recent weeks. Weak argument even by your standards. Was a pretty nasty looking ankle injury

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by tyler735

[tyler735]

 

[Awsi Dooger]

On 12/3/2020 at 9:52 PM, Drained said:

I'd rather have Hill on Houston than Hopkins.

Hopkins biggest issue was always his speed, got shutdown completely against White last season in the playoffs cause of it, we had to put him in the slot to even get him some yardage. Happened again this past week against Gilmore and the Patriots.

Hill has the speed, great route running, great hands, theres really nothing wrong with the guy other than personal issues, he's probably solidly in contention for #1, he just doesn't have the amazing catches like DHop or AB used to have or those game winning moments that we used to see in AJ or Megatron and that is what makes the Football world say "oh they're no.1"

 

I think it's Adams. Hopkins is the most overrated premier receiver due to lack of separation and the problems it causes against elite cornerbacks. There is simply too much burden on him to be exceptional on the contested balls. And those contested balls will be fewer in number if he's blanketed and therefore the quarterback won't go there in the first place.

538 had an excellent related article a few months ago. It revealed Adams at the top of the list in terms of creating separation on intermediate routes. Adams had 2 of the top 3 seasons in that category from 2017-2019 while Keenan Allen had the other one. Hopkins had two seasons among the worst separation list:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-new-metric-shows-how-good-nfl-receivers-are-at-creating-separation/

I love Metcalf but I haven't seen enough numbers regarding how much separation he creates. With a guy like that it may not be a leaguewide flub in evaluation, compared to simply going to a team with a terrific quarterback who puts the ball in great spots enabling Metcalf to overcome his less than awesome traits.

The 538 article makes a fantastic point that play action by itself creates separation, no matter who the receiver is. That is an annoyance right now as a Dolphins fan. Tua benefitted from high percentage of play action at Alabama. I think I remember a chart listing it at 46% of his throws last season. Chan Gailey is not utilizing that often enough. Chad O'Shea has comparatively creative designs, as evidenced by all those plays creating great spacing for Browns receivers yesterday, plus Mayfield on designed atypical rollouts that cause confusion in the secondary.  I still can't believe Flores got rid of O'Shea, given how terrific the pass play schemes looked late last season, when with a journeyman quarterback running them. If anyone needs artificially created separation it is the Miami receivers and tight ends. Gailey does a good job of that in the red zone but not otherwise.  

[Drained]

6 minutes ago, Awsi Dooger said:

I think it's Adams. Hopkins is the most overrated premier receiver due to lack of separation and the problems it causes against elite cornerbacks. There is simply too much burden on him to be exceptional on the contested balls. And those contested balls will be fewer in number if he's blanketed and therefore the quarterback won't go there in the first place.

538 had an excellent related article a few months ago. It revealed Adams at the top of the list in terms of creating separation on intermediate routes. Adams had 2 of the top 3 seasons in that category from 2017-2019 while Keenan Allen had the other one. Hopkins had two seasons among the worst separation list:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-new-metric-shows-how-good-nfl-receivers-are-at-creating-separation/

I love Metcalf but I haven't seen enough numbers regarding how much separation he creates. With a guy like that it may not be a leaguewide flub in evaluation, compared to simply going to a team with a terrific quarterback who puts the ball in great spots enabling Metcalf to overcome his less than awesome traits.

The 538 article makes a fantastic point that play action by itself creates separation, no matter who the receiver is. That is an annoyance right now as a Dolphins fan. Tua benefitted from high percentage of play action at Alabama. I think I remember a chart listing it at 46% of his throws last season. Chan Gailey is not utilizing that often enough. Chad O'Shea has comparatively creative designs, as evidenced by all those plays creating great spacing for Browns receivers yesterday, plus Mayfield on designed atypical rollouts that cause confusion in the secondary.  I still can't believe Flores got rid of O'Shea, given how terrific the pass play schemes looked late last season, when with a journeyman quarterback running them. If anyone needs artificially created separation it is the Miami receivers and tight ends. Gailey does a good job of that in the red zone but not otherwise.  

Thank you.

I love Hopkins and he is one of my favorite Texans players of all time but when I remove my anger glasses from the trade, I can look at times when Hopkins hasn't looked the best. Last season he really wasn't there like he was previous years, our gamechanger was Will Fuller. DHop didn't have the speed and ability to create separation like our playcalling needed at the time and the only reason he was (And still is) considered one of the best WR's is because he has pure talent and work ethic, he is great at catching the ball and almost all contested balls that go his way are going into his hands if it isn't a double-team. You won't see him easily beating coverage though like you do with Hill or Devante Adams unless the coverage is blown and thats why you see him getting put in the slot sometimes because he can't do more than get 5 yards or be your safety valve.

[Drained]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:04 AM, UncleAdamz said:

I don't understand see this as an issue. In this past game he was targeted 7 times, and caught 5 for 55 yards. If that is getting 'shutdown', than that just shows how good of a receiver he is. I'm sure he would of done better as well if Murray had been 100%, with how much his running ability opens up the field. Going back to the speed, his use in our offense doesn't involve deep shots, that is left up to Kirk and Isabella typically. I also believe that our more horizontally based offense is actually hurting him a bit, as I would like to see him 15-25 yards downfield more often.  I think the receiver is largely dependent on the scheme and other players, so different teams would probably rather have a player that fits what they are doing. (whether that is Hopkins, Hill, Metcalf, Adams, Thomas)

For a receiver that averages 100 ypg rec, I don't get how 5 rec for 55 yards is a good game? Same against Ramsey, he was basically useless against the Rams.

To be honest, he was able to bully these cornerbacks with Houston. I am not a believer in Kingsbury at all so it could just be a product of his scheming but he should be getting 80+ yards against this coverage if he truly is elite. Even Will Fuller was able to 80 yards on similar amount of targets and receptions against Gilmore.

[GSUeagles14]

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

Not all injuries are they same. Michael Thomas looks to be healthy again and looking like his usual self in recent weeks. Weak argument even by your standards. Was a pretty nasty looking ankle injury

 

cool story bruh. Jones had a horrific hamstring issue and adams had an awfu ankle injury. both outproducing thomas significantly. and is 4 for 50 back to normal? or did he get hurt again that game and recover for 100 against atl?

[TENINCH]

3 hours ago, tyler735 said:

Kind of wish the Saints would put Winston in at QB, would be fun to see Michael Thomas put up 100+ yard receiving games with 4 different QB's in 2 seasons. As it stands, he's had multiple 100+ yard receiving games with 3 different QB's the past 2 seasons.

Cris Carter did it with 9 different QB's

[tyler735]

20 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

cool story bruh. Jones had a horrific hamstring issue

lol

20 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

 

and adams had an awfu ankle injury.

lol

20 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

both outproducing thomas significantly. and is 4 for 50 back to normal? or did he get hurt again that game and recover for 100 against atl?

If you want to use a small sample size while Michael Thomas was obviously injured, be my guest, we will laugh at you, but you do you man. In the mean time, I'm going to enjoy watching Michael Thomas continue to get back to playing like his normal all pro self. 

[tyler735]

7 minutes ago, TENINCH said:

Cris Carter did it with 9 different QB's

One of my all time favorite players. Think if I had to compare Michael Thomas to any present/past WR, it would be Cris Carter in terms of style of play and such (and they both were OSU guys).

[TENINCH]

6 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

One of my all time favorite players. Think if I had to compare Michael Thomas to any present/past WR, it would be Cris Carter in terms of style of play and such (and they both were OSU guys).

Yeah that's who I see too!

[GSUeagles14]

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

lol

lol

If you want to use a small sample size while Michael Thomas was obviously injured, be my guest, we will laugh at you, but you do you man. In the mean time, I'm going to enjoy watching Michael Thomas continue to get back to playing like his normal all pro self. 

oh, so youre the sole decider on whose injury is severe enough to hamper play? Why is a hamstring pull not as bad as a high ankle sprain? 

 

Also, seems like your sole criteria if Michael thomas is healthy is if he produces or not. ANd you still havent explained how comparing CMC to Thomas makes sense, as CMC still had the production. Really look forward to the cmc thing in particular.