Jaguars OTAs/Training Camp News and Notes

[.Buzz]

11 minutes ago, JiffyJag said:

How do we think the WR room shakes out? Urban seemed to be speaking highly still of Dorsett in his post game press conference, and obviously we’ve heard about the camp success of Treadwell and Austin.

so are we thinking:

Jones

Chark

Viska

Johnson

Treadwell

Dorsett??

I imagined that it would be an either/or between Dorsett/Austin but now I’m not so sure. Agnew is a lock as return man. I think Camp is definitely one of the odd men out, he’ll go to the PS.

 

Anyone else have thoughts?

I think you got it if we keep 7. If we only keep 6 I think Dorsett is knocked off.

[pwny]

7 minutes ago, JiffyJag said:

How do we think the WR room shakes out? Urban seemed to be speaking highly still of Dorsett in his post game press conference, and obviously we’ve heard about the camp success of Treadwell and Austin.

so are we thinking:

Jones

Chark

Viska

Johnson

Treadwell

Dorsett??

I imagined that it would be an either/or between Dorsett/Austin but now I’m not so sure. Agnew is a lock as return man. I think Camp is definitely one of the odd men out, he’ll go to the PS.

 

Anyone else have thoughts?

I think the top 3 and Treadwell are locks. We’re hearing so much about Treadwell that he can’t end up not making the team.

Johnson feels like one of those that might end out on the outside like how Lazard did a few years ago, where we could end up regretting it. I hope they find room for him.

Dorsett has that downfield speed that nobody else in the room really has, but he’s not really showing a ton to make you think he will be any different than the player he has been for years. But it’s an asset that we don’t have from anyone else.

I think Tavon will depend on how deep they have the RB room. He’ll be more likely to stick if they go lighter on the backs. 

[pwny]

1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

I think you got it if we keep 7. If we only keep 6 I think Dorsett is knocked off.

I would prefer this. But my PTSD from this team thinks that Dorsett could be kept over Johnson. 

[.Buzz]

6 minutes ago, pwny said:

I would prefer this. But my PTSD from this team thinks that Dorsett could be kept over Johnson. 

Yeah, plus when you take into account how much Urban likes speed…

I just don’t know how you could do it. Dorsett has had a very meh career and has been hurt all of TC. I get he brings an aspect to the offense that may be unique but he shouldn’t be a player that gets special treatment given what he’s done.

As you alluded to, I’d get very big Lazard vibes (maybe even to a greater extent) if Johnson gets let go.

[.Buzz]

 

[.Buzz]

 

[.Buzz]

Cisco taking that job come week 1 imo.

[Charles]

5 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Cisco taking that job come week 1 imo.

I don't know if he's a starter week 1, but he's definitely going to see a ton of pt...dude was all over the place Saturday.   As with Little, I'd like to see him vs some better competition. 

[.Buzz]

1 hour ago, Charles said:

I don't know if he's a starter week 1, but he's definitely going to see a ton of pt...dude was all over the place Saturday.   As with Little, I'd like to see him vs some better competition. 

The competition is Josh Jones who was a well below average starter last year.

I’m confident that Cisco right out of the gate brings more than what I saw from Jones last year.

[Charles]

43 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

The competition is Josh Jones who was a well below average starter last year.

I’m confident that Cisco right out of the gate brings more than what I saw from Jones last year.

You're probably right, but I just don't want to overreact to a guy balling out vs guys who aren't likely to make an nfl roster.  Hopefully he's earned some first team reps...someone needs to step up there or teams are going to screen and swing pass us to death

[.Buzz]

28 minutes ago, Charles said:

You're probably right, but I just don't want to overreact to a guy balling out vs guys who aren't likely to make an nfl roster.  Hopefully he's earned some first team reps...someone needs to step up there or teams are going to screen and swing pass us to death

Yeah, I’m not really basing it purely off that. He’s been the one constantly making noise in camp too. Then he goes out there and you can see how great his instincts/ball hawking ability can be. Who knows what he becomes, but he just seems like a much better upside play and I don’t see the floor being much if any lower than what Jones brings.

Main reason I was for him sitting for several games until he’s ready was due to the ACL last year (which is also why we landed him where we did). I’m not seeing or hearing any issues from that. The guy played like a full 3 quarters Saturday.

[Tugboat]

16 hours ago, pwny said:

I think one of the big things with Urban is he likes using every public opportunity to project an image and aura around himself and the team he’s building. Like how he stood right behind Trevor at his Pro Day, making sure that every single photo or video of Trevor also included him. He wanted it in the head of every single person that Trevor is his Quarterback. it’s likely why he skipped Zach Wilson’s Pro Day too, effectively sending a subtle message that Wilson isn’t worth this team’s time.

The idea of going into a preseason game and not using it to showcase something to build on that aura has gotta bug the hell out of him. Effectively why do we have to be vanilla and run the exact same plays that every single other team plays, why can’t we use this opportunity to build on the prestige of the team by doing something that gets everyone talking about us?

It’s going to be an interesting conundrum for a guy who is that obsessed with the image his team projects trying to balance that image with the decorum of the league.

In a lot of ways though, i feel like just having Lawrence come out Week1 Preseason and run a handful of vanilla plays, then peace out of the game almost projects a stronger version of that aura or narrative.  It's like he's Tom Brady coming in, doing a little warmup round and then hanging out...knowing that his position is realistically, pretty firmly entrenched already.  Just extends that impression that Trevor is...not just "some rookie".  This is Urban's Ride or Die, and almost "above" meaningless preseason reps.

[Tugboat]

16 hours ago, .Buzz said:

I just think the NFL overthinks the whole “can’t show anything” aspect of preseason.

Like there’s no game plan. I think that, especially with a young QB and overall team, this would be a good time to actually work on those aspects. I’m not saying you should put the whole playbook out there or pull out all the stops but I think what we saw isn’t it either.

I know most everyone does it, just not a fan.

I'm not sure it's even really about "overthinking" the showing everything aspect per se.  You can goof around offensively and on STs in the preseason, try things out and see what happens, see how players handle weird stuff...and often there are weird wrinkles thrown into the preseason out of the blue amidst a bunch of vanilla stuff.

 

The thing that makes it kind of pointless though, is that defenses really have little incentive to get highly exotic in preseason, and a lot of the players aren't even operating on a full scale, totally nuanced version of the "base defense".  It's just so much easier for a staff to evaluate players in more straightforward line up and go situations.  You can "scheme up" all kinds of stuff in terms of pressures, coverage, etc to play to the strengths of the talent you have...and tailor it to the talent you're facing each week.  But in the preseason, why would you bother?  What you want to know about your defensive players...you're going to learn a lot more about, by putting them in straightforward situations and seeing how they handle things.  Who is winning their matchups?  Who has the instincts to correct on the fly and make plays when the vanilla scheme puts them in the right spot to pull the trigger instinctively on a bit of nice freelancing?

 

You could always scheme up an exotic blitz in the preseason.  But what would you actually learn from it?  Like yeah...Player X can run free to the QB and bury them, when appropriately schemed up to do so.  So what?  Same goes for big alignment shifts, adjustments to what the offense is doing, etc in general.  It just makes it trickier to evaluate.  So you end up with a bit of a "gentleman's agreement" to just play the preseason mostly straight.  It benefits both sides more to do so.

 

For the very same reasons they have certain rules in things like the Senior Bowl.  It's just easier, and also better for evaluation purposes, which is what these shindigs are really all about.

[Tugboat]

16 hours ago, pwny said:

I think the top 3 and Treadwell are locks. We’re hearing so much about Treadwell that he can’t end up not making the team.

Johnson feels like one of those that might end out on the outside like how Lazard did a few years ago, where we could end up regretting it. I hope they find room for him.

Dorsett has that downfield speed that nobody else in the room really has, but he’s not really showing a ton to make you think he will be any different than the player he has been for years. But it’s an asset that we don’t have from anyone else.

I think Tavon will depend on how deep they have the RB room. He’ll be more likely to stick if they go lighter on the backs. 

Feels to me like Tavon could really be the linchpin on what happens with Dorsett/Johnson.  Which like you said, probably depends on how they go with RBs.  But if Tavon sticks...i think that could influence the need for Dorsett, which would favour Johnson sticking.

 

But more than anything, probably STs will be the difference.  Because Urban.  That'll be where fringe guys really and truly make themselves useful, or expendable.

I wouldn't be too offended with any of those guys being kept or not.  My gut preference is just to cut Dorsett, but if he's kept over Johnson, i'd be pretty indifferent.  He does bring an element, and Treadwell has seemingly displaced Johnson in what he does, while only talking about a couple years age difference that also really doesn't matter on likely short-term depth receivers.

[Tugboat]

17 hours ago, .Buzz said:

 

This whole OLine Tackle Trio extravaganza is frustrating.  It's really not as simple as it should be, just "play your 5 best guys".  Especially when you start to look toward the long-game.

 

Realistically, (despite some of the comments there) it's not hard to see the best potential OLine looking like Little-Norwell-Linder-Cann-Robinson.

But actually getting there is...complicated.  Bartch getting reps seems positive, in that it gives a potential opportunity to evaluate him vs Cann, for that second OG spot on the line.  But the Tackle situation is such a mess.

Asking the rookie, who hasn't played real games in forever, to be the one who has to play the "swing" role, is tricky.  But understandable.  Taylor is pretty much limited to RT, and needs all the reps and work he can get there, to look less than awful.  So that's easy enough.  But if Little is potentially the long-term answer at LT...you really just want him focusing on getting there at that spot.  Yet, i don't know how you ask a vet like Robinson playing on the Franchise Tag, to start cross-training at RT and not have that start to fester either.  We've seen OTs like that around the league, who want no part of potentially ending up a RT, because of the prestige/pay disparity.  Even if having him there would make for an ultimately better OLine for the team.

 

It's one of those situations where it's down to a good coach, to convince someone that it's better for everyone for them to see how things go with the Vet playing a downgraded role.  Not sure Urban can pull that off, especially with no NFL standing to lean on.

 

But in any case...if you do convince Cam Robinson to play RT...you're still essentially condemning yourself to searching for a new RT next year, at the very least.  He's not back here if he's playing RT.  He'll move on for greener (more greenbacks) pastures, somewhere they'll give him a go back at LT where he's very much purgatory.