Ben Simmons officially asks to be traded

[Mox]

15 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

And that excitement is exactly what the Sixers had just after the/during the Tank.  Now teams like Orlando and Memphis hope their young guys turn out as well as the Sixers did.  Their fans got to see Embiid develop into an MVP candidate over the last few years.  They got to see multiple 1st overall picks even though Fultz floundered.  The excitement their fans had during the rebuild was likely higher than yours now with a couple ok young pieces and a few picks in the draft just outside of the elite prospects.  And theirs flourished into exciting seasons with disappointing endings.  Which it does for fans of all but one team.  The only way the 76ers are capped is if you truly believe a 3 game stretch of horrid free throw shooting is who Ben Simmons will be the rest of his career.  As I stated, if he hits 40% from the line, they win in 6.  If he improves on that, they easily can get to the next level next year.  Especially with growth from other guys on the team.  If they trade him they will get a solid piece back.  He will still hold plenty of value in the trade market.  Any young team hopes that in 3 years their stars are as good as the sixers top two.  They likely won't be and they will continue in the late lotto/low playoff seed range for a long time. 

The difference is that other teams didn't sell out four seasons to get that excitement. Orlando made the postseason last year and now look exciting one year later. I absolutely believe the 76ers are capped. They have an injury prone #1, a massive offensive liability as a #2, and a solid #3 making 34-39 mil the next four seasons.

There is literally no reason to think they aren't capped. Ben Simmons hasn't improved in four seasons. Joel Embiid, during his big breakout year, still missed 21 games in a 72 game season. He's never played 65 games in a season. He's missed 18+ games in 7 consecutive seasons. He's going to break down sooner than later. Every single postseason Simmons has been exposed in the round they went home. It's not three games. Doc Rivers gave them the big year 1 regular season bump he also gives before the diminishing returns come. What about the injury prone #1 and train wreck #2 inspires any confidence in you?

Edited June 24, 2021 by Bullet Club

[Sllim Pickens]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

@Sllim Pickens the only thing exciting about the Philadelphia tank was if your team played them because you knew it was an automatic W

I quite enjoyed this year of Pistons basketball because they were working towards something.  The last 7 years of Pistons basketball has been unwatchable.  I have not been this excited for my team since we drafted Grant Hill.  The Championship years were great, but we sort of lucked into that with some late bloomers and didn't draft any of those guys.  I would like to see another bad year of basketball in order to get a top pick next year and add Chet or Paolo to our team but we likely will play our way into the late lottery instead and be stuck unless Cade is Kobe right away.  I have been calling for the tank for years and they finally did it, barely but they did it.  The Sixers knowing they had Embiid while they sucked and were going to add another asset because of it was great.  Yes they screwed up that pick but then they get Ben Simmons the next year.  I as a fan would have been super excited for that future and still would be despite the disappointing end. 

[Sllim Pickens]

1 minute ago, Bullet Club said:

The difference is that other teams didn't sell out four seasons to get that excitement. Orlando made the postseason last year and now look exciting one year later. I absolutely believe the 76ers are capped. They have an injury prone #1, a massive offensive liability as a #2, and a solid #3 making 34-39 mil the next four seasons.

There is literally no reason to think they aren't capped. Ben Simmons hasn't improved in four seasons. Joel Embiid, during his big breakout year, still missed 21 games in a 72 game season. He's never played 65 games in a season. He's missed 18+ games in 7 consecutive seasons. He's going to break down sooner than later. Every single postseason Simmons has been exposed in the round they went home. It's not three games. What about the injury prone #1 and train wreck #2 inspires any confidence in you?

Ben Simmons FG and FT% improved every year until this year.  Why would I not think this and the short post season stretch are the outlier?  Even with is slightly down % this year they were better than years 1 and 2 and if he shot those percentages in the playoffs, the Sixers win.  

And the reason the Sixers tank took so long is they had top picks that were hurt their entire first year.  Embiid and Simmons both missed a full year.  Fultz did as well.  They didn't plan that, and can't do anything about it so it delayed the timeline.  they didn't try to suck for 4 years, their best players were hurt.  And I would rather let them be hurt and suck for another high pick than overpay an aging vet to fill in for a year.  The Sixers process was working, Fultz was the top prospect at a position of need for the Sixers and it blew up in their face.  Its unfortunate but it happened.  They still have two top 15 players out of it, which every other franchise wishes they had aside from 4 or 5. 

[Mox]

1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Ben Simmons FG and FT% improved every year until this year.  Why would I not think this and the short post season stretch are the outlier?  Even with is slightly down % this year they were better than years 1 and 2 and if he shot those percentages in the playoffs, the Sixers win.  

And the reason the Sixers tank took so long is they had top picks that were hurt their entire first year.  Embiid and Simmons both missed a full year.  Fultz did as well.  They didn't plan that, and can't do anything about it so it delayed the timeline.  they didn't try to suck for 4 years, their best players were hurt.  And I would rather let them be hurt and suck for another high pick than overpay an aging vet to fill in for a year.  The Sixers process was working, Fultz was the top prospect at a position of need for the Sixers and it blew up in their face.  Its unfortunate but it happened.  They still have two top 15 players out of it, which every other franchise wishes they had aside from 4 or 5. 

His FT% has gone up a whopping 5% in four seasons from awful to really bad. His FG% went up because he shot less and the average distance of the shots he took decreased. He didn't improve, he was forced to play a smaller offensive role because that's all he's capable of doing. This is evident by his BPM going down every year. Simmons isn't a top 15 player in the NBA, and even if he was in the regular season, he's nowhere near that level in the postseason and we have evidence to support that he will be a liability in every tough series he's in. 

So Philly has a guaranteed postseason offensive liability and injury prone #1 to hang their hats on. The Hawks have a young deep team that already beat Philly and whose best player is 22 and constantly improving. The Bucks have Giannis, Middleton and Jrue. The Nets have their big 3. Boston has Tatum and Brown. Even Miami has Butler and Bam. If we are going off "Dynamic Duo's" you'd want in the postseason Philly is either last or 2nd to last on that list. They have no contending future as things are right now.

 

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I quite enjoyed this year of Pistons basketball because they were working towards something.  The last 7 years of Pistons basketball has been unwatchable.  I have not been this excited for my team since we drafted Grant Hill.  The Championship years were great, but we sort of lucked into that with some late bloomers and didn't draft any of those guys.  I would like to see another bad year of basketball in order to get a top pick next year and add Chet or Paolo to our team but we likely will play our way into the late lottery instead and be stuck unless Cade is Kobe right away.  I have been calling for the tank for years and they finally did it, barely but they did it.  The Sixers knowing they had Embiid while they sucked and were going to add another asset because of it was great.  Yes they screwed up that pick but then they get Ben Simmons the next year.  I as a fan would have been super excited for that future and still would be despite the disappointing end. 

Y'all were a middle of the pack team, tried the splash move for Blake, it didn't work out. You also had a great draft last year and now you're getting Cade Cunningham. With Grant in place as well you should be pushing for a playoff spot next season. Philly tried to suck forever and it failed them.

[NYRaider]

Ben Simmons playoff scoring #'s and FT #'s have decreased every year.

[Sllim Pickens]

22 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Y'all were a middle of the pack team, tried the splash move for Blake, it didn't work out. You also had a great draft last year and now you're getting Cade Cunningham. With Grant in place as well you should be pushing for a playoff spot next season. Philly tried to suck forever and it failed them.

Philly sucked for a year, drafted Embiid.  Embiid didnt play his first two years and they then got Okafor, who was a flop.  Then they drafted Simmons and he was hurt his first year.  Year four, ben's first year was Embiids second year and they took off.  They didnt try to suck for four years, injuries caused them to suck for four years.  Had Embiid been healthy, they don't have Simmons and likely end up with Denzel valentine in the 8-12 pick range.  The injury and tanking worked out for them to get to where they are now.  

And yes, we should be pushing for a playoff spot, what does that do, get us a 12-17 pick for the next 5 years until cade decides to leave?  I'd gladly trade the last 7 or 8 years and current rosters for what I have had to watch.  I am excited for Cade, but the hope is he is at least as good as Ben Simmons.  He will be a better shooter but will his impact be felt on both ends, will he develop into an all star?  The Sixers got two all stars and almost a league MVP.  They got players to get behind and still are young enough to make noise.  Michael Jordan couldn't get out of the first round until his 4th year and then lost in the second round.  Then he went to the ECF for two years and then at 28, the age Embiid will be next year, finally made it to the finals.  I get Ben Simmons and Embiid are nto MJ, but people grow and their teams improve and develop.  The Sixers will be right back in the top 3 in the East next year with a chance to get to the finals.  People act like these stars are in their mid 30s and their careers are over.  

[Sllim Pickens]

32 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Ben Simmons playoff scoring #'s and FT #'s have decreased every year.

That is true. So its a mentality thing.  Can it be fixed, probably.  Can it be coaching and system (which also can be fixed), probably.  

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

And yes, we should be pushing for a playoff spot, what does that do, get us a 12-17 pick for the next 5 years until cade decides to leave?  I'd gladly trade the last 7 or 8 years and current rosters for what I have had to watch.  I am excited for Cade, but the hope is he is at least as good as Ben Simmons.  He will be a better shooter but will his impact be felt on both ends, will he develop into an all star?  The Sixers got two all stars and almost a league MVP.  They got players to get behind and still are young enough to make noise.  Michael Jordan couldn't get out of the first round until his 4th year and then lost in the second round.  Then he went to the ECF for two years and then at 28, the age Embiid will be next year, finally made it to the finals.  I get Ben Simmons and Embiid are nto MJ, but people grow and their teams improve and develop.  The Sixers will be right back in the top 3 in the East next year with a chance to get to the finals.  People act like these stars are in their mid 30s and their careers are over.  

Gotta hope Cade is as good as advertised and that Hayes develops, might have something with those two. 

I think the biggest issue for the 76ers is that Simmons and Embiid really don't fit together as non-shooters and Simmons has regressed in the post-season every year. Not to mention while Embiid is an MVP caliber player right now, big men usually start to decline fairly quickly and he's as injury prone as they come. They don't really have a huge window to hope to win with their current core, imo. 

[Sllim Pickens]

12 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Gotta hope Cade is as good as advertised and that Hayes develops, might have something with those two. 

I think the biggest issue for the 76ers is that Simmons and Embiid really don't fit together as non-shooters and Simmons has regressed in the post-season every year. Not to mention while Embiid is an MVP caliber player right now, big men usually start to decline fairly quickly and he's as injury prone as they come. They don't really have a huge window to hope to win with their current core, imo. 

I'm hopeful the young guys develop further and weren't just the best on a bad team.  Hayes has promise, Bey has promise, even Stewart could be a legit starter at C.  The odds of all of that happening are slim.  We would once again be the exception like when we won without a true superstar.  Given stars are not likely going to sign here, we need to hit in the draft, so if Cade were to get hurt this year and allow Hayes to develop and we are still a bottom 5 team, great, then we can hopefully add another good piece next year and then take off from there.  If Cade is as advertised, which I am nervous given the games I watched were the tournament games and he looked average, then we will potentially be ok.  But even if he is Luka, where has that gotten Luka?  First round exits.  He needs another star and they are too good to get one.  Grant is solid but he really isn't good enough to be a #2 on a contender.  

[NYRaider]

22 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I'm hopeful the young guys develop further and weren't just the best on a bad team.  Hayes has promise, Bey has promise, even Stewart could be a legit starter at C.  The odds of all of that happening are slim.  We would once again be the exception like when we won without a true superstar.  Given stars are not likely going to sign here, we need to hit in the draft, so if Cade were to get hurt this year and allow Hayes to develop and we are still a bottom 5 team, great, then we can hopefully add another good piece next year and then take off from there.  If Cade is as advertised, which I am nervous given the games I watched were the tournament games and he looked average, then we will potentially be ok.  But even if he is Luka, where has that gotten Luka?  First round exits.  He needs another star and they are too good to get one.  Grant is solid but he really isn't good enough to be a #2 on a contender.  

I think Hayes development will be one of the biggest keys to how far you'll be able go go with Cade if he's as good as advertised. I like Bey and Stewart but view them more as role players than high end guys going forward. The Pistons honestly might be smart to move Grant while his value is at an all-time high, collect more draft assets/young talent, and roll with the young guns so you have a chance at another swing in the lottery in 2022. 

[Sllim Pickens]

56 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I think Hayes development will be one of the biggest keys to how far you'll be able go go with Cade if he's as good as advertised. I like Bey and Stewart but view them more as role players than high end guys going forward. The Pistons honestly might be smart to move Grant while his value is at an all-time high, collect more draft assets/young talent, and roll with the young guns so you have a chance at another swing in the lottery in 2022. 

I agree with that.  Grant should pull a nice return given his contract and production.  It still just proves you need to suck for more than one year to really have a chance at turning a team around.  Weaver doesn't want to suck and Casey can't afford another year sucking either, so they will do their best to win now.  It sucks because we likely will end up in that zone of having a star but not enough around them to win.  Hayes developing will be huge, but need a lot of luck with it.  

[R T]

3 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Philly sucked for a year, drafted Embiid.  Embiid didnt play his first two years and they then got Okafor, who was a flop.  Then they drafted Simmons and he was hurt his first year.  Year four, ben's first year was Embiids second year and they took off.  They didnt try to suck for four years, injuries caused them to suck for four years.  Had Embiid been healthy, they don't have Simmons and likely end up with Denzel valentine in the 8-12 pick range.  The injury and tanking worked out for them to get to where they are now.  

And yes, we should be pushing for a playoff spot, what does that do, get us a 12-17 pick for the next 5 years until cade decides to leave?  I'd gladly trade the last 7 or 8 years and current rosters for what I have had to watch.  I am excited for Cade, but the hope is he is at least as good as Ben Simmons.  He will be a better shooter but will his impact be felt on both ends, will he develop into an all star?  The Sixers got two all stars and almost a league MVP.  They got players to get behind and still are young enough to make noise.  Michael Jordan couldn't get out of the first round until his 4th year and then lost in the second round.  Then he went to the ECF for two years and then at 28, the age Embiid will be next year, finally made it to the finals.  I get Ben Simmons and Embiid are nto MJ, but people grow and their teams improve and develop.  The Sixers will be right back in the top 3 in the East next year with a chance to get to the finals.  People act like these stars are in their mid 30s and their careers are over.  

Is this Bryan Colangelo's wife?

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I agree with that.  Grant should pull a nice return given his contract and production.  It still just proves you need to suck for more than one year to really have a chance at turning a team around.  Weaver doesn't want to suck and Casey can't afford another year sucking either, so they will do their best to win now.  It sucks because we likely will end up in that zone of having a star but not enough around them to win.  Hayes developing will be huge, but need a lot of luck with it.  

I don't necessarily think trading Grant means that you'll suck, Grant's 27 and you only have him under contract for 2 more years, probably best to trade him for either another young player or draft assets that fit with your young core's timeline. 

Is Dwayne Casey really in the Pistons plans long term? Weaver didn't hire him and he's an older coach so I wouldn't be surprised if this is his last year with the team before Weaver goes and hires his own coach next off-season. 

You guys have some interesting young pieces in Bey, Stewart, Diallo, and Hayes. I was the biggest Hayes Stan on the board during the pre-draft process and still think he will be a good pro. Sucks that he got hurt and he had his ups and downs but he was only 19 on a terrible team in the covid year with no real off-season. Cade's presence should make things easier for all of your other young players because he's going to be able to create and will have so much gravity with the ball in his hands other guys are going to get good looks by default. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I agree with that.  Grant should pull a nice return given his contract and production.  It still just proves you need to suck for more than one year to really have a chance at turning a team around.  Weaver doesn't want to suck and Casey can't afford another year sucking either, so they will do their best to win now.  It sucks because we likely will end up in that zone of having a star but not enough around them to win.  Hayes developing will be huge, but need a lot of luck with it.  

Warriors got the #7 and #14 picks. Let's talk business!