Training Camp Thread......

[AZBearsFan]

12 hours ago, Ty21 said:

I’d be happy with Adams taking Wims roster spot 

At this point, especially with Wims now apparently having some kind of oblique injury, it seems the only way he makes the roster would be if someone else gets hurt this week, or if he gets put on IR for the oblique thing.

Wims’ biggest advantages coming into camp were that the staff seemed to favor him over Ridley (which is probably still true) and that he was much bigger than all the new guys brought in. Adams is pretty clearly ahead of him on the depth chart now, and he’s also got some size himself at 6’1” 190 plus an obvious rapport with Fields. Wims isn’t a strong ST player and brings no elite or unique traits to the offense. IMO it would make more sense at this point to keep Newsome and/or Isiah Coulter than Wims even though they both seem likely to be game day inactives. That in year 4 Wims still hasn’t been able to clearly establish a role for himself even after Miller was traded only further seals it for me that someone else is due a shot. Enough is enough.

Robinson, Mooney, Goodwin and Byrd are roster locks, Adams is the obvious 5th guy on performance, and Newsome is a 2021 draft pick with kick returner value. I’m not sure Wims should even be looked at as being clearly ahead of Jon’Vea Johnson at this point. The latter has made far more plays during camp. 

[soulman]

5 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I’m with you - in an ideal world Borom surprises and solidifies the one of the OT spots while Jenkins is on the mend, leaving him to reclaim the other on return. With that said, I think the only chance Borom gets a shot at being our starting LT is if Peters gets hurt or is so ineffective they have to pull him. Nagy can say what he wants but Peters was brought here to play. I don’t doubt that Borom could potentially push Ifedi for RT reps as the season wears on which IMO would be just as welcome a development. Were he to become a serviceable or better starter at either tackle position by 2022 with 3 years at that point still left on his rookie deal that’s some serious found flexibility. Fields on a rookie contract is a FA budget boost, but Fields AND both starting tackles? Man, that’s the dream. 

One positive I got from watching a breakdown of a few of Borom's reps in pass protection is he's not a lumbering giant as some scouting reports made him out to be or at least he not if he plays around his current weight.

He surely displays some technique issues both Peters and Castillo can help him with but for a guy his size (he is a big guy) he has quick feet and he can move out well enough to block at the second level when called for.

But I also agree that Peters was brought in to start at LT at least until someone can do it any better than he can and that's not Elijah Wilkinson.  IMHO the guy doesn't even belong on the roster after next week.

Peters has replaced him and they can stick Simmons back on the PS and keep working with him or look at other OT who have been cut or released if someone pops up Pace and Castillo think is a better prospect.

IMHO we won't be able to evaluate what we have in Jenkins 'til next season.

[soulman]

5 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

That in year 4 Wims still hasn’t been able to clearly establish a role for himself even after Miller was traded only further seals it for me that someone else is due a shot. Enough is enough.

Yup, Javon Wims has already shown all that he can ever be which is mainly a guy who can execute downfield blocks on run plays but can't be counted on as dependable target on passes.

Cycle him out and cycle another rookie in to take his place.  We need to keep upgrading from the back end of the roster forward too and there are guys in camp who've shown more than he has.

[soulman]

BEARS 3 THINGS WE LEARNED
Robinson weighs in on the offense

Chicago Bears wide receiver Allen Robinson talks with head coach Matt Nagy in the first quarter against the Dolphins on Aug. 14 at Soldier Field. John J. Kim/Chicago Tribune

By Brad Biggs Chicago Tribune

The Chicago Bears put on full pads for a hot and humid practice that lasted almost two hours Tuesday morning after coach Matt Nagy announced rookie quarterback Justin Fields will start Saturday’s preseason finale against the Tennessee Titans.

Here are three other things we learned at Halas Hall.

1. It was an uneven effort for Justin Fields and Andy Dalton in full-team and 7-on-7 passing drills.

Fields was picked off across the middle by strong safety Tashaun Gipson when it appeared there might have been a mix-up with a wide receiver. Later, linebacker Caleb Johnson intercepted the rookie. Free safety Eddie Jackson pulled down an underthrown deep ball by Dalton. By and large, the ball was on the ground too much during the practice.

Still, wide receiver Allen Robinson believes the offense is close to being ready to roll.
“We’re still getting there,” he said. “I don’t think we’re far off. We go out there each and every day and see how we’re improving and see how we’re getting better. We’re still ascending. Honestly, I like where we’re at.

“Obviously, it’s not perfect some days. We’re not doing too much game planning right now. But for the concepts that we like and stuff like that, I think we’ve hit on those and like where we’re at on those.”

It hasn’t materialized in the preseason, especially when Dalton has been on the field.

Robinson didn’t play in the first two preseason games and is unlikely to play against the Titans. He has appeared in only one preseason game (Aug. 18, 2018, in Denver) with a total of 11 snaps since signing with the Bears in 2018. Robinson was working his way back from ACL reconstruction during that first preseason.

Nagy chose to sit almost all of his top players through the 2019 preseason, and COVID-19 eliminated the exhibition slate a year ago.

“I know what it takes to get myself ready for the season,” Robinson said. “If that’s what they want, that’s to (the coaches’) discretion. (I) try to do as much as I can knowing each and every day how important Week 1 is and knowing what I need to get ready.”

2. Injuries and planned rest days for some veterans left the team short at several positions.

Jesse James was the only tight end to participate. Jimmy Graham was given a veteran day, while Cole Kmet (hamstring), J.P. Holtz (quadriceps), Jesper Horsted (knee) and Scooter Harrington (knee) are injured. Considering the Bears haven’t made a move to add a tight end or two, they figure to have enough at the position for the Titans game. But Graham and Kmet are unlikely to play.

The defensive line was also thinned out. Akiem Hicks got a day of rest, while Bilal Nichols (toe), Mike Pennel (groin) and Angelo Blackson (illness) did not practice.

On the offensive line, Jason Peters and Larry Borom spent time with the starters at left tackle. Germain Ifedi worked with the first unit at right tackle. The limited numbers — 19 of the 84 players on the roster were held out — contributed to periods running a little shorter.

Nagy indicated the plan is for Peters and Ifedi to start at Tennessee. They could be on a limited rep count depending on how the rest of the week goes. Attrition has changed how Nagy thought the playing time would go for some starters through the first two preseason games.

“It probably affected some of that, with making sure that that fine line that you don’t reinjure somebody — especially the soft-tissue stuff,” he said. “That’s the stuff that scares me and I know it scares a lot of people. You get that soft-tissue (injury), then you’re talking two, three, four weeks. That’s where there’s a balance.”

3. Even with Dalton slated to start the opener against the Los Angeles Rams, Fields could play quarterback in that game.

Nagy cracked himself up when answering a question about whether there could be a package for Fields to play during a game Dalton starts.

“You know, it’s something that, you know, I don’t know,” he said. “You know?”

That’s a game-specific strategy Nagy isn’t going to share, but it would make sense in the right situation to give Fields some plays or even a series if the coaches believe it would give the Bears an advantage.

[dll2000]

11 hours ago, G08 said:

Anyone concerned about Peters saying he doesn't have his legs under him yet?

He was fishing and enjoying life when he got the call.   Not working out like a professional athlete. 

Even if he was, working out in a gym is not same as being on grass and doing football things.   

 

[soulman]

1 minute ago, dll2000 said:

He was fishing and enjoying life when he got the call.   Not working out like a professional athlete. 

Even if he was, working out in a gym is not same as being on grass and doing football things.   

 

He may turn out to be Orlando Pace v2.0 but our other alternative is Borom so having Peters around to help prepare Borom is at least worth something.

This problem is ALL on Pace and if I'm GMcC I would surely make it a bullet point during his year end review.  It should be 'splain it to me Lucy time.

[dll2000]

22 minutes ago, soulman said:

He may turn out to be Orlando Pace v2.0 but our other alternative is Borom so having Peters around to help prepare Borom is at least worth something.

This problem is ALL on Pace and if I'm GMcC I would surely make it a bullet point during his year end review.  It should be 'splain it to me Lucy time.

It is a very budget conscious move and a huge gamble.   It may payoff.   Odds are against it I think over course of a single season even.

This is problem when you try to quickly solve O line issues.  It is a long term investment.

You basically have to bring in a legit starting prospect at OL and CB every year through draft or FA to keep those positions going.  He got exceedingly lucky that Leno and Massie were so durable.  

Smart way to do that is draft a great college OT in first 3-4 rounds every other year and move them inside if they fail at OT.

If you keep screwing up draft then it is important to spend in FA on OT.  It is not a throw away position.  

Same with CB.   Don’t draft “slot CBS”.   Draft best CB on a college team and move them to slot as needed.

Same with WR.  Don’t draft slot WRs.  A great WR can play the slot just fine.  

 

 

[dll2000]

On that thought train I think Pace keeps trying to find diamond in the rough pass rushers.

I don’t think that is a good strategy.

It doesn’t seem that happens often at that position.  Its mostly you have it or you don’t kind of world there it seems.   Not something you often discover in 5th round and light comes in 3 years.  That is more akin to a lottery ticket strategy.   

Therefore, I think this is a position you attack very early in draft and over pay in FA if it becomes necessary.

Pace has been terrible at addressing Edge in draft and FA.  

But for Mack - which was incredibly costly - he has been abysmal.

 

[soulman]

15 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

It is a very budget conscious move and a huge gamble.   It may payoff.   Odds are against it I think over course of a single season even.

This is problem when you try to quickly solve O line issues.  It is a long term investment.

You basically have to bring in a legit starting prospect at OL and CB every year through draft or FA to keep those positions going.  He got exceedingly lucky that Leno and Massie were so durable.  

Smart way to do that is draft a great college OT in first 3-4 rounds every other year and move them inside if they fail at OT.

If you keep screwing up draft then it is important to spend in FA on OT.  It is not a throw away position.  

Same with CB.   Don’t draft “slot CBS”.   Draft best CB on a college team and move them to slot as needed.

Same with WR.  Don’t draft slot WRs.  A great WR can play the slot just fine.  

 

 

Part if the problem has been and still is Pace's tendency to trade away picks to get "his guy" without then replacing those picks via trades using his players who still have some value.  He's painted himself into so many corners he needs a sky hook to escape.

But I agree with you 100%.

[Madmike90]

58 minutes ago, soulman said:

He may turn out to be Orlando Pace v2.0 but our other alternative is Borom so having Peters around to help prepare Borom is at least worth something.

This problem is ALL on Pace and if I'm GMcC I would surely make it a bullet point during his year end review.  It should be 'splain it to me Lucy time.

I think this one is a bit harsh to put at Pace's door...he drafted two tackles with Jenkins seen as a 1st rounder and pro ready OT...we were all pretty thrilled with the pick...injuries happen and you simply can't stockpile talent in the NFL because of the cap and the demand around the league...especially at the OT position.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

But for Mack - which was incredibly costly - he has been abysmal.

 

Yep. His best drafted passrushers are both offball LBs - Floyd and Smith.

[dll2000]

40 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I think this one is a bit harsh to put at Pace's door...he drafted two tackles with Jenkins seen as a 1st rounder and pro ready OT...we were all pretty thrilled with the pick...injuries happen and you simply can't stockpile talent in the NFL because of the cap and the demand around the league...especially at the OT position.

Sans back issue it was a great draft - this year.    But it is first time he has done it.

He should have drafted at least 2 more OTs in mid to early rounds over the years and probably should have signed a big name FA OT at some point failing that - prior to this season.

 

 

[Madmike90]

12 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Sans back issue it was a great draft - this year.    But it is first time he has done it.

He should have drafted at least 2 more OTs in mid to early rounds over the years and probably should have signed a big name FA OT at some point failing that - prior to this season.

 

 

I don't really buy the back issue report...no mention of it for the weeks leading up to it when we were all told it was just tightness and as soon as surgery was needed then the report came in...just seems like someone trying to jump on a story...especially when other sources have came out and said it was rubbish.

[dll2000]

11 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I don't really buy the back issue report...no mention of it for the weeks leading up to it when we were all told it was just tightness and as soon as surgery was needed then the report came in...just seems like someone trying to jump on a story...especially when other sources have came out and said it was rubbish.

Well I don't know anything about reports ... but facts are he had a known back issue late in college and then needed surgery a handful of months later.

 

[beardown3231]

Hey guys Matt Nagy did that thing again where he says KC took 3-4 years to take off offensively