Preseason Wk2 - Bengals @ Washington

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

All I know is we can’t have a starting QB who will only complete 54% of his passes, offering up pick six’s on a platter, locking on to Adam Humphries as he doesn’t even look at a wide open McLaurin for a TD and airmailing Logan Thomas over the middle for a sure that TD that I can guarantee you Alex Smith & even Dwayne Haskins would’ve completed for a TD last year beyond the obvious Heinicke.

All I know is that no matter who starts a particular game or series of games, Fitz or Heinicke, the majority of the fanbase will be clamoring for the other one. 

They’re both the classic Beloved Backup™️. Capable of doing enough good, exciting things that with time, you find yourself forgetting their weaknesses and longing for that “spark” when you’re watching another guy struggle or be mediocre — but not nearly good or consistent enough to actually hold down the job and give the team the reliable steadying force it needs at the QB spot. 

Either one is very likely going to hold us back from where we’re supposed to be. It’s going to be frustrating, but we might as well understand it going in, so we can at least manage expectations and enjoy the good plays/games when they happen.

[e16bball]

Also, Fitz probably read that play the way any NFL QB would have. He would have had to assume Cincinnati wasn’t actually going to have a CB match up with Gibson in man coverage while a safety was matched up with Terry. Which is actually what happened, but who would deduce that they’re in man when the CB slid out to follow Gibson? That’s screaming zone, and that option route from the slot is probably where it was supposed to go against some form of Cover 2.

EDIT: Here’s Mark Bullock saying it better (and more British) than me.

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by e16bball

[turtle28]

On 8/22/2021 at 5:48 PM, e16bball said:

All I know is that no matter who starts a particular game or series of games, Fitz or Heinicke, the majority of the fanbase will be clamoring for the other one. 

They’re both the classic Beloved Backup™️. Capable of doing enough good, exciting things that with time, you find yourself forgetting their weaknesses and longing for that “spark” when you’re watching another guy struggle or be mediocre — but not nearly good or consistent enough to actually hold down the job and give the team the reliable steadying force it needs at the QB spot. 

Either one is very likely going to hold us back from where we’re supposed to be. It’s going to be frustrating, but we might as well understand it going in, so we can at least manage expectations and enjoy the good plays/games when they happen.

Definitely agree with that. The front office hasn’t done enough at the QB position so far to make this team anything more than the mediocre team they were last year and frankly have always been for going on 30 years save 2 or 3 seasons.

[RSkinGM]

2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Definitely agree with that. The front office hasn’t done enough at the QB position so far to make this team anything more than the mediocre team they were last year and frankly have always been for going on 30 years save 2 or 3 seasons.

Some of it just stupid bad luck/ timing. We had Haskins when we could have drafted a Q B high at #2 overall. Of course, we never should have drafted Haskins . RG3 was a big mistake. Even if he'd been decent we gave up so much draft capital. It's hard to find "the guy" . How many teams this year have one that's annointed ? Some teams get guy from blind luck like the Cowboys and Dak but he's got his flaws and injuries. 

[turtle28]

20 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Some of it just stupid bad luck/ timing. We had Haskins when we could have drafted a Q B high at #2 overall. Of course, we never should have drafted Haskins . RG3 was a big mistake. Even if he'd been decent we gave up so much draft capital. It's hard to find "the guy" . How many teams this year have one that's annointed ? Some teams get guy from blind luck like the Cowboys and Dak but he's got his flaws and injuries. 

I’d say this franchise makes its own bad luck by continuously making bad decisions at the QB position. It’s nothing new, it goes back to the 90s.

Not keeping Trent Green, then trading a bunch of assets for Brad Johnson only to not keep him three years later. Trading for and Signing Mark Brunnell to a huge extension. Not drafting Aaron Rodgers, and instead drafting Carlos Rogers & Jason Campbell. Not signing Drew Brees because they had Brunnell & Campbell. On and on.

RG3 was only a mistake bc he got hurt & couldn’t stay healthy. Before he got hurt the entire fanbase thought we had finally found a franchise QB in him and for good reason. We won the division & 10 games his rookie season mostly because of him and Alfred Morris.

As far as who took at #2 overall, I don’t think we made the wrong choice. Chase was the best prospect on the board, arguably the best prospect in the entire 2020 draft. They didn’t not take Herbert to Tua because we had Haskins, they took Young because they wanted him and they thought he was the best pick. As far as Herbert goes, no one at all thought he’d have the rookie season he did. Also, Herbert has tons of weapons in San Diego, I’d wager that if Washington had drafted Herbert that he wouldn’t have had quite the season he had in San Diego. Sure, Terry & Logan would’ve had big years for him but our #2 & 3 WR positions were still below average last year.

Edited August 24, 2021 by turtle28

[RSkinGM]

Speaking of QBs. I would have claimed Trubisky- See what he has . He wasn't great but he wasn't awful. Now he's looked good in Buffalo . 

[turtle28]

Just now, RSkinGM said:

Speaking of QBs. I would have claimed Trubisky- See what he has . He wasn't great but he wasn't awful. Now he's looked good in Buffalo . 

Yeah, a lot of us discussed that this off-season. They chose to sign Fitz over signing a guy like Trubisky who had upside or trading for a guy like Sam Darnold. I would’ve went the younger route too.

[Thaiphoon]

10 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I’d say this franchise makes its own bad luck by continuously making bad decisions at the QB position. It’s nothing new, it goes back to the 90s.

Not keeping Trent Green, then trading a bunch of assets for Brad Johnson only to not keep him three years later. Trading for and Signing Mark Brunnell to a huge extension. Not drafting Aaron Rodgers, and instead drafting Carlos Rogers & Jason Campbell. Not signing Drew Brees because they had Brunnell & Campbell. On and on.

RG3 was only a mistake bc he got hurt & couldn’t stay healthy. Before he got hurt the entire fanbase thought we had finally found a franchise QB in him and for good reason. We won the division & 10 games his rookie season mostly because of him and Alfred Morris.

As far as who took at #2 overall, I don’t think we made the wrong choice. Chase was the best prospect on the board, arguably the best prospect in the entire 2020 draft. They didn’t not take Herbert to Tua because we had Haskins, they took Young because they wanted him and they thought he was the best pick. As far as Herbert goes, no one at all thought he’d have the rookie season he did. Also, Herbert has tons of weapons in San Diego, I’d wager that if Washington had drafted Herbert that he wouldn’t have had quite the season he had in San Diego. Sure, Terry & Logan would’ve had big years for him but our #2 & 3 WR positions were still below average last year.

Ahem...hello.

[Thaiphoon]

10 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

Speaking of QBs. I would have claimed Trubisky- See what he has . He wasn't great but he wasn't awful. Now he's looked good in Buffalo . 

To what end? He's not going to be your franchise QB. So why are we investing in that going forward?

I'll say it again, one of the things I like about the Fitz pickup is his age. It's counterintuitive, I know. But if we got Trubisky and we ended up with say the #1 or #2 pick, people would be saying "we don't need a franchise QB, we have Mitch" and then we pass on the franchise QB in one of the next 2 drafts while Trubisky gets locked into a long-term deal that marries him to us for the next 5 years. Because "he's a decent QB and we can roll with him". 

At least with Fitz, we know the window is the next two years we need to draft the franchise QB before Fitz is mummified. So I'm all for the ride we're going on. I know I'll be screaming at him for poor play and cheering for good play. LEt's hope more of the latter than the former. But if he tanks and we tank, then we pick up our QB next draft. If he does middling and we do middling, we stockpile our picks for 2023 and move up if we need to to get our QB.

[turtle28]

11 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Ahem...hello.

So in 2012 you didn’t think that RG3 was possibly going to be a franchise QB? He was doing everything, ripping up defenses with his arms & legs. Then he got hurt, demanded changes in the O for 2013 & things weren’t the same ever again.

[RSkinGM]

12 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

To what end? He's not going to be your franchise QB. So why are we investing in that going forward?

I'll say it again, one of the things I like about the Fitz pickup is his age. It's counterintuitive, I know. But if we got Trubisky and we ended up with say the #1 or #2 pick, people would be saying "we don't need a franchise QB, we have Mitch" and then we pass on the franchise QB in one of the next 2 drafts while Trubisky gets locked into a long-term deal that marries him to us for the next 5 years. Because "he's a decent QB and we can roll with him". 

At least with Fitz, we know the window is the next two years we need to draft the franchise QB before Fitz is mummified. So I'm all for the ride we're going on. I know I'll be screaming at him for poor play and cheering for good play. LEt's hope more of the latter than the former. But if he tanks and we tank, then we pick up our QB next draft. If he does middling and we do middling, we stockpile our picks for 2023 and move up if we need to to get our QB.

Just looking to upgrade I guess. He's young , maybe he's reached his ceiling maybe he hasn't. You can win and win the Super Bowl without the mythical Franchise Q B . He has been done .

[MikeT14]

On 8/22/2021 at 3:58 PM, turtle28 said:

All I know is we can’t have a starting QB who will only complete 54% of his passes,

Cool. Fitz has never done that bad in his career. 

On 8/22/2021 at 3:58 PM, turtle28 said:

offering up pick six’s on a platter,

He has two more than Kirk for his career. 

On 8/22/2021 at 3:58 PM, turtle28 said:

locking on to Adam Humphries as he doesn’t even look at a wide open McLaurin for a TD

Yeah he missed him, but @e16bball addressed it. It's preseason but Humphries has 5 total targets. 

On 8/22/2021 at 3:58 PM, turtle28 said:

and airmailing Logan Thomas over the middle for a sure that TD that I can guarantee you Alex Smith & even Dwayne Haskins would’ve completed for a TD last year beyond the obvious Heinicke.

Don't make guarantees we know might be wrong lol.

I get it. Some of you want the one-hit wonder. Fine. I'm sure he'll play this season at some point. 

[turtle28]

9 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Cool. Fitz has never done that bad in his career. 

He has two more than Kirk for his career. 

Yeah he missed him, but @e16bball addressed it. It's preseason but Humphries has 5 total targets. 

Don't make guarantees we know might be wrong lol.

I get it. Some of you want the one-hit wonder. Fine. I'm sure he'll play this season at some point. 

It’s not about Heinicke for me. For me it’s about the fact that I know we could’ve done younger and better than Fitz. I was all about drafting a QB, even if we had to trade up for one. I think the way Fitz played is just another point of emphasis for us who didn’t want him at all. He is just delaying the inevitable that we need to invest in a young drafted QB. We’re kicking the can down the road another year or more meanwhile, our young DL isn’t getting any younger. I would like to pair a good to great young QB with our great DL before those guys start hitting 30 and we’ve missed our window with them.

I mean Heinicke may be a one hit wonder - or not - but Fitz doesn’t even have a hit in 17 years in the league. I don’t know why some think he’s going to deliver a playoff win for us or more - and if he’s not delivering that then the signing was useless - it just doesn’t equate to what he’s been his entire career. 
 

I think this Fitz signing is going to end like the Keenum signing did in 2019. A lot of people tried to hype up Keenum as being the answer & he was going to be better then Kirk was for this team but in the end we got one or two good games a few awful games & a bad season.

Edited August 25, 2021 by turtle28

[e16bball]

18 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

about the Fitz pickup is his age. It's counterintuitive, I know. But if we got Trubisky and we ended up with say the #1 or #2 pick, people would be saying "we don't need a franchise QB, we have Mitch" and then we pass on the franchise QB in one of the next 2 drafts while Trubisky gets locked into a long-term deal that marries him to us for the next 5 years.

I have to ask...who would be saying this? Point me to them so that I might throttle them or hurl objects toward their person. 

In all seriousness, do you really think we would have a bad enough record with Mitchell F. Trubisky, with this defense, to pick 1st or 2nd (so 3-14, maybe 4-13?) — and there would be people suggesting we stick with him, pass on the top QB prospects, and draft some OT or CB or LB in the top two?

I think the real issue there is what happens if Mitch, like Fitz will likely do, had taken us to 8 or 9 wins this year. In that scenario, it might be harder to cut bait on him, given his age, when he’d obviously played okay and we were out of position for the elite prospects. 

...but in fairness, that has already proven to be a problem with Fitz. THIS offseason. They didn’t need to move up for Fields (or even Mac Jones, although I’m much less pressed about that) because they had a “solid veteran” there for now. And they probably missed the boat because of it. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by e16bball

[Thaiphoon]

4 hours ago, e16bball said:

I have to ask...who would be saying this? Point me to them so that I might throttle them or hurl objects toward their person. 

E - you've been a Redskin / WFT fan long enough to know that exact conversation would happen. We would be having a QB argument every single day about how "he hasn't been here long enough" and people making QB stat predictions based upon limited play time.

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In all seriousness, do you really think we would have a bad enough record with Mitchell F. Trubisky, with this defense, to pick 1st or 2nd (so 3-14, maybe 4-13?) — and there would be people suggesting we stick with him, pass on the top QB prospects, and draft some OT or CB or LB in the top two?

Yes. Because the excuse-mongers would come out of the woodwork to explain how it's not the QB and "he's young" and "just needs another year to get going". I can seriously see these lines of argument forming from some of the people on this forum, let alone the rest of WFT nation.

Quote

I think the real issue there is what happens if Mitch, like Fitz will likely do, had taken us to 8 or 9 wins this year. In that scenario, it might be harder to cut bait on him, given his age, when he’d obviously played okay and we were out of position for the elite prospects. 

This is what I was referring to in the stockpiling picks for 2023 rather than 2022. With Fitz we should stockpile picks for 2023 knowing that Methuselah will retire soon. With Mitch we'd sign him to a 5 year deal and keep the mediocrity going for another half decade.

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...but in fairness, that has already proven to be a problem with Fitz. THIS offseason. They didn’t need to move up for Fields (or even Mac Jones, although I’m much less pressed about that) because they had a “solid veteran” there for now. And they probably missed the boat because of it. 

I agree they should've moved up for him (and I'm generally a guy who hates doing that). At the slot he was drafted, moving up to find out what he had in the tank was a decent risk, and it would've cost maybe a 3rd or 4th and maybe a swap of picks somewhere (haven't looked at the chart so I'm just spitballin' here). But I don't think this regime does those sorts of things in terms of big moves up for guys they aren't sure of. I just don't think they were enamored with him. I think if Lance had fallen to that slot, they would've made the move. But Fields, I just don't think they were gonna move up for him.

 I would've rather grabbed the QB in the 1st this year. But I knew as soon as we made the playoffs that it was a pipe dream and the best option we were gonna get was Fitz to play for a year and get us to 2022 where we could either get our QB or roll one more season to 2023 and get the guy then. 

Bottom line for me is I know the experiment, that our "brain trust" has with waiting to grab a franchise QB until the roster is filled out, will end much sooner with Fitz here than with Mitch. 4 years from now, if Fitz is still our starting QB, I'll eat a healthy helping of crow. If Mitch were our QB this year however, I would probably be betting right now that he'd still be starting in 4 years. With the same relative success as Fitz (middling but not gonna get us a Lombardi).